31 man squad for Aus, 22 man squad for Tonga.

danthefan

Have to say some bad calls in there imo.

Ireland Squad (31) v Australia
Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
Bob Casey (London Irish)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster)
John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)
Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)
Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)

Ireland A Squad (22) v Tonga
Neil Best (Northampton)
Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht)
Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)
Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster)
Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Kevin McLaughlin (UCD/Leinster)
Johne Murphy (Leicester)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Michael Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)
Bryan Young (Ballymena/Ulster)

Risteard

Neil Best and Horgan are the only contentious calls IMO.

The players added to the Senior squad have no chance of making the team IMO. That said if MOD somehow makes the bench, Irish rugby forums across the internet will explode with apoplectic rage.

Stev_o

Sorta disheartening some very strange calls in there, Felix Jones hasn't played top level rugby with Munster in the HC and gets the into the 31 man squad. Nial Ronan ahead of Henry is also a pretty dire call. Seems like Kidney already knows the squad he wants for 2011 and will proceed onwards with that plan in mind.

Podge_irl

There are several people in that Aus squad that weren't in the training camp aren't there? I mean, Casey I can understand cause he wouldn't have been available, but were MOD or Jones in the original squad?

Risteard

Podge_irl wrote: »

There are several people in that Aus squad that weren't in the training camp aren't there? I mean, Casey I can understand cause he wouldn't have been available, but were MOD or Jones in the original squad?

No but I think they'll just be glorified tackle bag holders.

That allows the A team to train together instead of having half the A team with the senior squad and the other half training on their own.

d-gal

How the f*ck can hurley, jones and dowling get in and yet Fionn Carr cannot even make the A team?!!
I am sorry but Kidney is showing some BS with munster bias. I really like munster but that back 3 and ronan getting in is a joke

Podge_irl

Risteard wrote: »

No but I think they'll just be glorified tackle bag holders.

That allows the A team to train together instead of having half the A team with the senior squad and the other half training on their own.

Probably, though it makes the squad announcement seem completely pointless. Why not just wait to name the 22s on Tuesday? Kidney seems to love squad announcements. He has as many of them as possible!

Risteard

d-gal wrote: »

How the f*ck can hurley, jones and dowling get in and yet Fionn Carr cannot even make the A team?!!
I am sorry but Kidney is showing some BS with munster bias. I really like munster but that back 3 and ronan getting in is a joke

Calm down, as said above they won't be playing at all. They're only there to make up the numbers. Hardly Munster bias if he's picking players to hold tackle bags while the majority of the A team who will be playing a match are for the most part, Ulster or Leinster players.

d-gal

Ireland Squad (31) v Australia
Props:
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)

Hookers:
Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster)

2nd Rows:
Bob Casey (London Irish)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)

Back Rows
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)
Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)

Scrum Half:
Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)

Out Half:
Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Centres:
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)

Back 3:
Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)
Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

d-gal

Risteard wrote: »

Calm down, as said above they won't be playing at all. They're only there to make up the numbers. Hardly Munster bias if he's picking players to hold tackle bags while the majority of the A team who will be playing a match are for the most part, Ulster or Leinster players.

Then pick Carr ahead of the 3 of them, give him some hope at the Irish set up

thomond2006

Was at UL to see Ireland train, Kearney had some heavy strapping on his right thigh.

Hopefully he'll be OK.

How can MOD be in the 31 man squad for the Australia game when he wasn't in the original 39?

Baffling.

Risteard

d-gal wrote: »

Then pick Carr ahead of the 3 of them, give him some hope at the Irish set up

I'm sure Kidney has his reasons for not picking Carr. Winger is a very competitive position in this Irish team and there's more to the position than scoring tries. Though to be fair, he does score a lot.

Also I think it's pretty unfair to accuse him of bias, all 3 of the 'big' provinces are well represented and Connacht have gotten a few players in the squads as well. I'm almost positive Cronin will be in the 22.

chupacabra

Eh.. where's the replacement hooker for the A squad?

Otherwise it should be this:

1. Brett Wilkinson
2. Denis Fogarty
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Devin Toner
6. Neil Best (c)
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Chris Henry

9. Isaac Boss
10. Ian Humphries
11. Johne Murphy
12. Darren Cave
13. Fergus McFadden
14. Shane Horgan
15. Andrew Trimble

16. ??? Nigel Brady maybe?
17. Bryan Young
18. Dan Tuohy
19. Kevin McLaughlin
20. Peter Stringer
21. Ian Keatley
22. Gavin Duffy

r0nanf

I'm surprised by Dowling over Horgan and Ronan over O'Brien, never mind Mick O'Driscolls inclusion. However you would have to presume that the reason for the above is Deccie would rather give a good player a run out for the A's than be excluded from the match day 22s for the seniors. Although strange, he's the last man that I'd be doubting.

Hope he'll make the tough calls for the starting 15...

Casey & Sexton to start!

chupacabra

Risteard wrote: »

Also I think it's pretty unfair to accuse him of bias, all 3 of the 'big' provinces are well represented and Connacht have gotten a few players in the squads as well. I'm almost positive Cronin will be in the 22.

Its totally fair to accuse him of bias. Picking Niall Ronan over SOB? Denis Hurley/Dowling over Shane Horgan? How do you explain this? Ridiculous to be honest, SOB is getting more game time than Ronan and Horgan is THE form winger in ireland right now.

Risteard

chupacabra wrote: »

Eh.. where's the replacement hooker for the A squad?

Otherwise it should be this:

1. Brett Wilkinson
2. Denis Fogarty
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Devin Toner
6. Neil Best (c)
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Chris Henry

9. Isaac Boss
10. Ian Humphries
11. Johne Murphy
12. Darren Cave
13. Fergus McFadden
14. Shane Horgan
15. Andrew Trimble

16. ??? Nigel Brady maybe?
17. Bryan Young
18. Dan Tuohy
19. Kevin McLaughlin
20. Peter Stringer
21. Ian Keatley
22. Gavin Duffy

The replacement for the As will probably be whoever drops out of the senior squad providing Flannery is fit.

Agree with your A selection bar fullback. Trimble's weakness is his positioning IMO, a vital part of fullback play. I think he should be played on the wing as he's being playing there for most of the season and is showing good form, plus I think he could be the long term option for a senior wing spot if Bowe and Fitz make the transition inside to centre.

Trouble is the only player there who plays fullback regularly is Duffy. Does Johne Murphy have any experience at Fullback, only ever seen him play wing?

Risteard

chupacabra wrote: »

Its totally fair to accuse him of bias. Picking Niall Ronan over SOB? Denis Hurley/Dowling over Shane Horgan? How do you explain this? Ridiculous to be honest, SOB is getting more game time than Ronan and Horgan is THE form winger in ireland right now.

I've already explained it. Do you think Dowling, Hurley et al have any realistic chance of making the senior 22? I don't. As such they won't be playing with the A team either. At the same time the likes of O'Brien, Horgan will be getting game time against Tonga while the players added will be sitting in the stands.

I'd rather have the players like Trimble and O'Brien in the A squad playing a match than in the senior squad sitting on the bench. Actually not even on the bench, in the stands.

bamboozle

suprised that lad willie faloon didnt get a look in, he's putting in consistently good performances for Ulster.

Fionn Carr can feel agrived also when you think of it he's had a lot more game time than felix jones at ML level.

Tim Robbins

When was the last time BOD played for UCD?

WeeBushy

Tim Robbins wrote: »

When was the last time BOD played for UCD?

Many seasons ago I would imagine... How come?

smurphy29

Calm down, calm down. I initially had a minor seizure when I saw the squad, but the A squad training together / tackle bag holder theory explains it all. If, say, Tommy Bowe were to become injured you can bet your life Trimble or Shaggy would be immediately summoned, rather than throwing young Felix in at the deep end.

That said, I'm still nervous about the idea about MOD making the 22...

dub_skav

smurphy29 wrote: »

Calm down, calm down. I initially had a minor seizure when I saw the squad, but the A squad training together / tackle bag holder theory explains it all. If, say, Tommy Bowe were to become injured you can bet your life Trimble or Shaggy would be immediately summoned, rather than throwing young Felix in at the deep end.

That said, I'm still nervous about the idea about MOD making the 22...

There's obviously a quota of white tape they need to get through and since heaslip stopped wearing it they need MOD in the squad to keep the usage up.
Simple economics really

smurphy29

dub_skav wrote: »

There's obviously a quota of white tape they need to get through and since heaslip stopped wearing it they need MOD in the squad to keep the usage up.
Simple economics really

Yes, quite. It's the old public body thing, if they don't use up this year's quota they don't get the same next year.

If you cross off the seven tackle bag holders (Casey, Hurley, Dowling, Jones, Muldoon, MOD and Ronan), you're pretty much down to the match-day 22. Minus one hooker and one back.

outwest

Horgan is THE form winger in ireland right now.[/quote]

carr is the inform winger, sorry but kearney bowe and fitz for me evrytime.
ealrs or darce for bench, the other in squad are there to hold tackle bags and to bring the lads water,

ALH-06

Re. inclusion of Dowling, Hurley & MOD in the senior squad:

I'm actually glad they're there. It means that they won't even be considered for the As, which is a good thing. The latter should of course be reserved for players who actually have the potential to be future internationals.

I'm more disappointed in Jones' and Ronan's inclusion though - maybe they should be given game time at A level? As should Carr, definitely.

Size=everything

This is an utter disgrace.

Dowling over Horgan?

Niall Ronan over Sean O'Brien?

Mick O'Driscoll in the squad?!?!


Thats not even going into how the **** Felix Jones and Hurley got in the squad ahead of Trimble and Carr





Kidney picking favourites, never thought I'd see it. Expect O'Gara to start against S.A and Australia :mad:

outwest

size = evrything

if horgan and o brein are better off playin a game then hold tackle bags,
leinsterfans are over reacting

Size=everything

d-gal wrote: »

How the f*ck can hurley, jones and dowling get in and yet Fionn Carr cannot even make the A team?!!
I am sorry but Kidney is showing some BS with munster bias. I really like munster but that back 3 and ronan getting in is a joke

Serious Munster bias, I'm appalled.

Like theres so many ridiculous calls

Dowling should never of been ahead of Horgan, Niall Ronan shouldn't of been ahead of Sean O'Brien, Felix Jones and Hurley should of been behind Trimble and Carr, Dennis Leamy didnt deserve his place ahead of McLoughlin and Best, Mick O'Driscoll shouldn't of been anywhere near the squad, Humphries should be there instead of O'Gara I could go on.

KIDNEY IS NOT PICKING ON FORM HE IS PICKING FAVOURITES, EOS STYLE.

WeeBushy

Size=everything wrote: »

Serious Munster bias, I'm appalled.

Like theres so many ridiculous calls

Dowling should never of been ahead of Horgan, Niall Ronan shouldn't of been ahead of Sean O'Brien, Felix Jones and Hurley should of been behind Trimble and Carr, Dennis Leamy didnt deserve his place ahead of McLoughlin and Best, Mick O'Driscoll shouldn't of been anywhere near the squad, Humphries should be there instead of O'Gara I could go on.

KIDNEY IS NOT PICKING ON FORM HE IS PICKING FAVOURITES, EOS STYLE.

As has been said before, it way better that the like of O'Brien and Horgan are playing in a match as opposed to being glorified tackle bags for the week like Ronan and Dowling will be. Much better chance to put their hand up for a bench place against Australia. I'd say it shows they're ahead in the pecking order tbh.

Risteard

Size=everything wrote: »

Serious Munster bias, I'm appalled.

Like theres so many ridiculous calls

Dowling should never of been ahead of Horgan, Niall Ronan shouldn't of been ahead of Sean O'Brien, Felix Jones and Hurley should of been behind Trimble and Carr, Dennis Leamy didnt deserve his place ahead of McLoughlin and Best, Mick O'Driscoll shouldn't of been anywhere near the squad, Humphries should be there instead of O'Gara I could go on.

KIDNEY IS NOT PICKING ON FORM HE IS PICKING FAVOURITES, EOS STYLE.

So Sean O'Brien and Trimble would be better off training in the senior squad and then sitting in the stands than playing a match?

If these squads show anything, it's that Kidney rates these players higher than Dowling, Hurley and so on. If he was seriously considering MOD and so on, they would have been included in the original squad.

Best is the only surprise and maybe Horgan as far as I'm concerned.

Podge_irl

Size=everything wrote: »

Serious Munster bias, I'm appalled.

Like theres so many ridiculous calls

Dowling isn't "ahead" of Horgan. If Bowe got injured in the morning Horgan would replace him, not Dowling. Kidney just picks his second set of players for the As and throws the left-overs in with the main squad as tackle bag holders. It makes these squad announcements so bloody pointless.

Crash

Aye, should have just announced the A 22 and left it at that.

[Jackass]

Looking at form of the provinces...14 Munster players in with 11 Leinster

Are Leamy and Ronan playing better than McLoughlin and O'Brien?? I would have said there's a massive gulf between the 2 sets, particularly O'Briens form over the last season and a half versus that of Leamy...McLoughlin has been absolutely superb this season, hillariously doing a great job in Rockys boots, who would have thought?

MOD still in there....groooaaannnn....amazed at only 3 recognised props...he's obviously opted to not even take a look at Ross...

Felix jones coming into the sqaud where there's farrrr to many back 3 options...McFadden banged down to A's with only 3 regular centres in the sqaud...Horgan in brilliant form and had an absolute field day against Hurley in the RDS is dropped for...Hurley...Even Dowling in ahead of the likes of Carr...Neil Best missing out to the likes of Leamy...Toner, Caldwell or Ryan losing out to MO'D...

I think Kidney has answered some questions and confirmed some worst fears already...You can now safely say that Eddie Decy will go with O'Gara to start vs Australia, which is an appauling call.

Amazotheamazing

Hmm, Kidney has won a Grand Slam, I'm going out on a limb here are suggests he knows more about rugby than people posting here. He's allowed pick whoever he wants, time to get behind the team.

danthefan

I am hoping he's named his 22 + some tackle bags. Hurley, Jones, Ronan, MOD, Dowling, Muldoon just cannot be included in the 22. I'm hoping he's decided to put his 2nd best 22 against Tonga, get them all training together, and have whoever's left helping out the first team.

Size=everything

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Hmm, Kidney has won a Grand Slam, I'm going out on a limb here are suggests he knows more about rugby than people posting here. He's allowed pick whoever he wants, time to get behind the team.

I judge each coach on every new season. Winning something last season doesn't make Kidney immune from criticism.

Knows more about rugby? Yep I'm sure Dowling is actually playing better than Horgan and Ronan is outclassing Sean O'Brien and Mick O'Driscoll is one of the best second rows in the world oh yeah and Hurley and Jones are playing so much regularly and better than Trimble and Carr. Did I mention that Leamy deserves a place ahead of the brilliantly performing McLaughlin and Neil Best.
:rolleyes:

thomond2006

I really don't see the point of these preliminary squads.

They have us all worked up. :P

Size=everything

danthefan wrote: »

I am hoping he's named his 22 + some tackle bags. Hurley, Jones, Ronan, MOD, Dowling, Muldoon just cannot be included in the 22. I'm hoping he's decided to put his 2nd best 22 against Tonga, get them all training together, and have whoever's left helping out the first team.

But I would prefer to see players such as O'Brien McLaughlin, Carr, Toner getting gametime for Ireland (i.e against Fiji, for 10-20 mins against Australia and South Africa) than playing for Ireland A.

I mean if it was up to me McLoughlin would be covering Ferris not Leamy (:rolleyes:)
O'Brien would be 7 and 8 cover and Carr would be looking for gametime with Horgan direct cover for Bowe/Fitzgerald. Given Toner some game time if even the last 10 mins against the likes of Australia would be far more beneficial than having Mick O'Driscoll there


Its a disgrace.

siltirocker

Size=everything wrote: »

But I would prefer to see players such as O'Brien McLaughlin, Carr, Toner getting gametime for Ireland (i.e against Fiji, for 10-20 mins against Australia and South Africa) than playing for Ireland A.

I mean if it was up to me McLoughlin would be covering Ferris not Leamy (:rolleyes:)
O'Brien would be 7 and 8 cover and Carr would be looking for gametime with Horgan direct cover for Bowe/Fitzgerald. Given Toner some game time if even the last 10 mins against the likes of Australia would be far more beneficial than having Mick O'Driscoll there


Its a disgrace.

This is just the Australia game squad, things will change drastically for the Fiji game were many (well, my mates ) reckon many of the 'A' will be brought in for Dowling to take on the Jaguers.

btw McLoughlin in the 22, c'mon now. Covering Ferris, Best & Muldoon would be much better options IMO.

Size=everything

siltirocker wrote: »

This is just the Australia game squad, things will change drastically for the Fiji game were many (well, my mates ) reckon many of the 'A' will be brought in for Dowling to take on the Jaguers.

btw McLoughlin in the 22, c'mon now. Covering Ferris, Best & Muldoon would be much better options IMO.

Yes but I would of liked Sean O'Brien getting the last 10 min against Australia. If things were going well giving Toner the last few minutes would of been very beneficial. McLoughlin's 24 and is also the best performing 6 in Ireland, Fitzgerald, Kearney, O'Driscoll were played younger.

WeeBushy

Size=everything wrote: »

But I would prefer to see players such as O'Brien McLaughlin, Carr, Toner getting gametime for Ireland (i.e against Fiji, for 10-20 mins against Australia and South Africa) than playing for Ireland A.

Starting them for the A side doesn't preclude them from playing against Fiji

Size=everything wrote: »

I mean if it was up to me McLoughlin would be covering Ferris not Leamy (:rolleyes:)

I'm a huge fan of McLaughlin but I think its a little early to be talking about him being in the Ireland 22, he's only played games for Leinster.

Size=everything wrote: »

O'Brien would be 7 and 8 cover and Carr would be looking for gametime with Horgan direct cover for Bowe/Fitzgerald. Given Toner some game time if even the last 10 mins against the likes of Australia would be far more beneficial than having Mick O'Driscoll there

I agree about O'Brien. I had a feeling he would start against Australia, pity not to see him in the 22.
Don't think Toner is ready for international matches yet tbh. I think being involved in the training and set-up is about the level he is at, at the moment.

Size=everything wrote: »

Its a disgrace.

Calling it a disgrace is a bit of an exaggeration imo.

Size=everything

WeeBushy wrote: »

Starting them for the A side doesn't preclude them from playing against Fiji

O'Brien deserved game time against Australia.

I'm a huge fan of McLaughlin but I think its a little early to be talking about him being in the Ireland 22, he's only played games for Leinster.

Most players tend to only play for their province before Ireland if they burst onto the scene like McLaughlin has.

I agree about O'Brien. I had a feeling he would start against Australia, pity not to see him in the 22.

Agreed.

Don't think Toner is ready for international matches yet tbh. I think being involved in the training and set-up is about the level he is at, at the moment.

In fairness he is the biggest prospect we have in the second row, throwing him on for a few mins at the end of the Australia match would of been extremely beneficial.

WeeBushy

Size=everything wrote: »

O'Brien deserved game time against Australia.

We're both in agreement here so

Size=everything wrote: »

Most players tend to only play for their province before Ireland if they burst onto the scene like McLaughlin has.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but I have a feeling I disagree with it. I wouldn't put him in the category of Fitzo, who played in the AIs in his rooky season. I think if he can keep up his form then the end of season tour should be his target.

Size=everything wrote: »

In fairness he is the biggest prospect we have in the second row, throwing him on for a few mins at the end of the Australia match would of been extremely beneficial.

He's certainly the biggest! Still don't think he's ready to be playing against the likes Australia yet, he's Leinster's 4th choice 2nd row after all. Give him more time to get used to these kind of surroundings and then play him, no need to rush him.

cson

Delighted to see Johnny Muldoon called up. Tackle bag holder or not, its a great achievement for the man coming from where he does (Portumna isn't exactly a reknowed rugby stronghold, more emphasis on having a stick in your hand here). Great player for Connacht too.

Risteard

Size=everything wrote: »

I judge each coach on every new season. Winning something last season doesn't make Kidney immune from criticism.

Knows more about rugby? Yep I'm sure Dowling is actually playing better than Horgan and Ronan is outclassing Sean O'Brien and Mick O'Driscoll is one of the best second rows in the world oh yeah and Hurley and Jones are playing so much regularly and better than Trimble and Carr. Did I mention that Leamy deserves a place ahead of the brilliantly performing McLaughlin and Neil Best.
:rolleyes:

Well Hurley, Jones, Ronan and Dowling and MOD won't be playing next weekend unless there's an extreme injury crisis during the week which isn't likely.

It's of greater benefit to Sean O'Brien and Trimble playing a full 80 minutes than maybe getting 10 minutes against Australia at the end if we're winning comfortably, which would be the only time he'd be put on, if he made the bench which I don't think he would.

The thing is, you can't just judge on form alone, unless form is completely terrible, it's a very important aspect but it's not the be all and end all. Yes O'Brien and McLaughlin and all the rest are playing well, but International rugby is a big step up. You can't just lob in a load of new caps altogether. There are other aspects to take into account.

We're already looking at Healy making his first senior start against a formidable Aussie scrum. Sexton, hopefully making his debut against one of the best fly-halves in the world. I don't think putting O'Brien up against one of the best 7s in the world would help at this moment. His time will come and I'm sure of that.

You're talking about missing an opportunity to win against the Tri-Nations teams if we pick RoG, but we'd have a greater chance of losing if we started McLaughlin IMO. He's just not ready. We have to remember Australia are still a top team, yes they've lost 7 of their last 8 matches but that was against the Springboks and All Blacks. They're not a bad team.

As I've said before, you can't judge solely on form, experience does count for something atthis level. And Leamy has experience, that said I personally would have picked Best. I have confidence in Kidney and I'm sure he knows a lot more about what's going on than us who just get to see the matches. He deals with these players a lot and knows them. And for that, I think we should trust his decisions, regardless of what we think might be the best option.

Size=everything

Risteard wrote: »

It's of greater benefit to Sean O'Brien and Trimble playing a full 80 minutes than maybe getting 10 minutes against Australia at the end if we're winning comfortably, which would be the only time he'd be put on, if he made the bench which I don't think he would.

You see this is where I disagree. Sean O'Brien has played A level games. He needs to experience international test level against the best and Sean O'Brien clearly deserves his spot on the bench ahead of the likes of Muldoon and Leamy.

The thing is, you can't just judge on form alone, unless form is completely terrible, it's a very important aspect but it's not the be all and end all.

Though it is the biggest factor.

Yes O'Brien and McLaughlin and all the rest are playing well, but International rugby is a big step up. You can't just lob in a load of new caps altogether. There are other aspects to take into account.

Whose talking about lobbing new caps together? I am simply saying give them the last few mins against Australia.

You're talking about missing an opportunity to win against the Tri-Nations teams if we pick RoG, but we'd have a greater chance of losing if we started McLaughlin IMO. He's just not ready.

Woah. Who said anything about starting McLaughlin??? I said give him a run in the last few mins if things are going well!

As I've said before, you can't judge solely on form, experience does count for something atthis level.

So when do we give the form players experience at the top level? In the 6 nations?

And Leamy has experience, that said I personally would have picked Best.

Me also. Though I would of had O'Brien ahead of Best.

Risteard

Size=everything wrote: »

You see this is where I disagree. Sean O'Brien has played A level games. He needs to experience international test level against the best and Sean O'Brien clearly deserves his spot on the bench ahead of the likes of Muldoon and Leamy.

Whose talking about lobbing new caps together? I am simply saying give them the last few mins against Australia.

Woah. Who said anything about starting McLaughlin??? I said give him a run in the last few mins if things are going well!

I'll address these together as they kind of tie into each other.

First of all you can't have both SoB and McLaughlin on the bench, we would have no cover at lock. I presumed you meant McLaughlin to start as you stated that you felt he was the best performing 6 in Ireland. As you seem to judge players on their form alone, I took this as a sign that you felt he should start. Apologies if I misunderstood that.

Muldoon I think is in the same category as Dowling, MoD and the rest in that he's there to make up the numbers. Personally I would have had Best as we know what he can do in an Ireland jersey and for me is the ideal player to bring off the bench to make an impact.

Thought it is the biggest factor.

It certainly is a big factor but not the only one. Experience does count. O'Brien as a clear run as Leinster 7 now for the Heineken Cup and the big games. This will give him a chance to prove himself further. If he does well, and I think he's pefectly capable of doing it, then he could possibly be in the frame for a Six Nations match against Italy and we see how he goes. I would assume he'll play against Fiji in the AIs as well. Though I think Wallace is certainly still the number one 7 at this moment.

Me also. Though I would of had O'Brien ahead of Best.

Well at least we partially agree on something.:pac: In that Best ahead of Leamy.

Leamy had a great game against Ulster. I didn't feel it was enough to pull himself ahead of Best but if he continues to improve and get back to where he was a few years ago, then he will a massive asset to us.

Podge_irl

Size=everything wrote: »

Me also. Though I would of had O'Brien ahead of Best.

Until SOB gets a pair of hands capable of asking taking and giving a pass he has no business in the Ireland no.7 jersey. Its ridiculous to castigate POC's poor handling on one hand, and decide SOB's is okay on the other in a more important position.

Kenteach

Some moderately made points here. What must be noted, is that Kidney has basically selected two 15's for the forthcoming games, and then selected his squad and ancillary players around that. Some people are getting too worked up, and acting as though the senior 31 are ahead of the A 22 in the pecking order. Which is complete muck based on the make up of each panel.
Relax, DK knows what he is at. As a novice coach I can see the method in his madness.

anonymous_joe

I was half tempted to do the usual 'argh, Ian Dowling' type reaction, but I'm going to hold off until I know why.

If Kidney is rating the lads in the A squad higher than them, that'd make sense.