Organ Donation

OldGoat

I've been looking around for information on vCJD - (human mad Cow) as I'm a potential carrier. Due to the many unknowns about vCJD I'm still not allowed to donate blood. I was checking to see if there is any warnings given against organ doning and if I need to scrap my organ doner card when I came across this little snippit.

In some cases, the medical team may request the next of kin to donate the organs of a deceased person. There is no law dealing with the issue of consent to such a move. In practice, the consent of the next of kin is accepted as valid and a refusal by the next of kin is not contested.

Source: Citizen Information.
OK, so I get that the next of kin CAN grant permission for organs to be harvested from someone who does not have a doner card but it's the bit where the next of kin can vito the harvest. Is that right? I've carried a doner card for decades. All my family know I feel strongly about being a doner and that it is my wish but is it true that Mrs. Goat COULD turn around after I'm gone and simply say 'No'?

Khannie

That's my understanding alright. She owns your body when you cease to.

Pherekydes

You could make a living will, whereby you inform your NOK and family what you wish to happen upon your death. A living will can be verbal or written.

Your NOK does not 'own' you upon your death. pffft.

CDfm

Thats kind of interesting.

I am not allowed donate blood because I lived in the UK so I'm probably in the same category.

If you were doing organ donation -surely the test for vCJD is brain cells so they can eliminate cos they can test when your dead.

What is the law on organ or body donation???

smk89

Pherekydes wrote: »

Your NOK does not 'own' you upon your death. pffft.

Legally the state owns your body and organs after death and its their decision what to do with it.
*Eyes round the room nervously while clutching kidneys*

sam34

yep, thats the law as it stands in ireland currently.

your next of kin can override your wishes regarding donation.

even if you make a livng will, these are not legally binding in Ireland, so all they do is outline your wishes. they do not have to be adhered to.

other european countries have an "opt out" system of organ donation, whereby everyone who is suitable will have their organs harvested, unless at some stage in their life they specifically sign a form opting out of this.
those countries have much higher rates of donation than we do, with our "opt-in-but-the-family-can opt-you-out-again" system.

CDfm

smk89 wrote: »

Legally the state owns your body and organs after death and its their decision what to do with it.
*Eyes round the room nervously while clutching kidneys*

I don't think it belongs (but I could be wrong)to the state but rather to your estate and I imagine there is no law on it. In other words I imagine its a piece of property on death.

As I understand it there is a difference between a living will on organs that can be removed before death and post mortem organ donation.

Like kidneys get taken out while alive but eyes on death.

So a kidney donor card is like a living will and presumably is considered medical treatment pre-mortem which is why NOK consent may be required like in turning off the ventilator.

So presumably this has something to do with it.

Post mortem donation surely is a different story- like couldnt you sell your body for research on death?

On Bodies and not Organs this seems to be governed by the Anatomy Act 1832

The Act provided that anyone intending to practise anatomy must obtain a licence from the Home Secretary. As a matter of fact only one or two teachers in each institution took out this licence and were known as licensed teachers. They accepted the whole responsibility for the proper treatment of all bodies dissected in the building for which their licence was granted.

Regulating these licensed teachers, and receiving constant reports from them, were four inspectors of anatomy, one each for England, Scotland, Ireland and London, who reported to the Home Secretary and knew the whereabouts of every body being dissected. The principal provision of the act was Section 7 which stipulated that a person having lawful possession of a body may permit it to undergo anatomical examination provided no relative objected. The other sections were subsidiary and detailed the methods of carrying this into effect.

Section 16 repealed parts of sections 4 and 5 of the Offences against the Person Act 1828 (which in turn replaced an Act of Henry VIII[citation needed][which?]) which provided that the bodies of murderers were to be hung in chains or dissected after execution. It provided instead that they were to be either hung in chains or buried within the precincts of the last prison in which the deceased had been confined. The provision for hanging in chains was shortly repealed by the Hanging in Chains Act 1834 and the whole section was repealed and replaced by section 3 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861.

The Act, provided for the needs of physicians, surgeons and students by giving them legal access to corpses that were unclaimed after death, in particular those who died in prison or the workhouse. Further, a person could donate their next of kin's corpse in exchange for burial at the expense of the donee.

Occasionally a person, following the example of Jeremy Bentham, left their body for the advancement of science, but even then, if his relatives objected, it was not received.

The act was effective in ending the practice of Resurrectionists who robbed graves as a means of obtaining cadavers for medical study.[citation needed]

Gunther von Hagens was accused of (but not charged with) breaking the Act because of performing televised autopsy in 2002.[2]

Got this practice from Trinity Colleges Website

http://www.medicine.tcd.ie/anatomy/donations/

There are 5 medical colleges in Ireland: Trinity College Dublin, University College Dublin, Royal College of Surgeons Dublin, University College Galway, and University College Cork. The general practice is to donate to the college nearest your normal place of residence. People resident in Northern Ireland would donate to Queen's University, Belfast.
What is involved in donating to Trinity College?

* The donation of remains to Medical Science must be made by the person themselves. This involves completing a simple form, having it witnessed and returning the form to the department. Having the intention to donate your body to medical science after death recorded in your will is not adequate; you must be registered with one of the 5 medical colleges. The donation form is not a legal document, donors may withdraw their donation at any time.
* The remains can be held in the department for up to 3 years after receiving them. After this period of time, the remains are interred in accordance with the wishes of the donor and in consultation with the family/executor of the donor at the time of interment.
* The donor must be resident in Ireland (excluding the 6 counties of Northern Ireland as it is a different jurisdiction) at the time of death.

OldGoat

sam34 wrote: »

other european countries have an "opt out" system of organ donation, whereby everyone who is suitable will have their organs harvested, unless at some stage in their life they specifically sign a form opting out of this.
those countries have much higher rates of donation than we do, with our "opt-in-but-the-family-can opt-you-out-again" system.

I'm a big supporter of this idea and would love to see it implemented over here too. It makes so much more sense to me. If you are squeemish then you have to make an effort to get yourself taken off the register.
I think a lot of people around now would be doners but for the effort in getting and filling out a little card and telling their families. :rolleyes:

A UK debate article on the subject Here.
Also from about a year ago some discussion of the Opt Out scheme for Ireland here


CDfm, yeah I haz the Mad Cow because I ate a burger in the UK. :P Well, more precisely because "You have spent 1 year or more, in total, in the UK in the years 1980 to 1996". Lets start a Mad Cowers Support Group. WMooot!

CDfm

OldGoat wrote: »

CDfm, yeah I haz the Mad Cow because I ate a burger in the UK. :P Well, more precisely because "You have spent 1 year or more, in total, in the UK in the years 1980 to 1996". Lets start a Mad Cowers Support Group. WMooot!

Moo - I'm in where do I sign up:p

I think you should get tax relief for organ donation .

OldGoat

Just for my own clarification I wrote to the Irish Kidney Association and asked what was their take on doning while being possible carriers of vCJD. Their reply was:

The rules for giving blood do not apply to organ donation.
You can still donate and all organs are tested before a donation is
made.

So there we are, I can rest assured that my bits and pieces are of use even if it's just for some medical student to practice on. Us mad cowers still have a use.

Alun

I'm a fully paid up member of the Mad Cow Disease Dissemination Club too apparently. Annoys me no end, but there you go.

Also I've reliably informed all of my next of kin that if they even think for one second of vetoing my organ donation in case of my death, I will come back and haunt each and every one of them. It's an utterly ridiculous situation .. if I've expressed my wishes on the donor register, then it's absolutely, 100% nobody else's business regardless of their relationship to me. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

CDfm

Alun wrote: »

I'm a fully paid up member of the Mad Cow Disease Dissemination Club too apparently. Annoys me no end,

Its a MOOT point:pac:

shellyboo

CDfm wrote: »

Its a MOOT point:pac:

You have no idea how much this amoooooosed me :P

OldGoat

All right, very funny.
Now, enough puns, back to the topic.

Fajitas!

OldGoat wrote: »

CDfm, yeah I haz the Mad Cow because I ate a burger in the UK. :P Well, more precisely because "You have spent 1 year or more, in total, in the UK in the years 1980 to 1996". Lets start a Mad Cowers Support Group. WMooot!

Is there any link showing who can and can't donate? And reasons why?

Alun

Fajitas! wrote: »

Is there any link showing who can and can't donate? And reasons why?

It's on their website .. pretty easy to find. www.ibts.ie

hobochris

I am a member of this 'your organs and blood is not wanted' club as well, lived in the UK at one stage.

It annoys me that I can't give blood but, I am of two trails of thought on my organs:

1. I don't need them when I'm dead and would be helping someone else.

2. I'm not comfortable about the idea cut up and of being buried with bits of me missing. no one truly knows what happens when we die, what if your organs are still needed?

Fajitas!

Alun wrote: »

It's on their website .. pretty easy to find. www.ibts.ie

Yeah, I've found the blood transfusion one before. I'm wondering about organs.

Alun

Fajitas! wrote: »

Yeah, I've found the blood transfusion one before. I'm wondering about organs.

Ah, sorry about that :pac:

OldGoat

Fajitas! wrote: »

Yeah, I've found the blood transfusion one before. I'm wondering about organs.

I couldn't find anything in the IKA website hence I emailed them. I've not looked on the NHS site in Britian to see if they have any information. Sorry Faj, you'll have to do the googleything.

Fajitas!

Aye, I'd tryed to googleything earlier on with no results. They don't make it easy.

OldGoat

Googleything + No Results = Web Design Biz Op.

CDfm

Anyone remember Alasdair Cook who did Letter from America for the BBC -well there was a scandal in the US when some of his bones were taken. The risk was that as he died of cancer the tissue recipients would get cancer cells as a free gift.

Link here http://http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23367755-patients-given-bone-transplants-from-corpse-snatches.do

So it seems on organ donation is tested whereas other "products" arent.

Is vCJD detectable from blood cells or is it just detectable from brain tissue. The infection mechanism is unknown AFAIK and there is a cell type called a prion. So the ban on blood transfusions is a precaution.

Anyway here is some blurb about it

http://www.mhlw.go.jp/shingi/2007/11/dl/s1114-7f_0012.pdf

I found it as appealling to read as a Brief History of Time, Ullysses and Gerry Ryan's Autobiography.

BTW I haven't read it or Gerry Ryans tome.