Accident this evening - some advice please

WicklowRacer

I collided with a pedestrian this evening. An ambulance was called and the pedestrian was taken to A&E with what looked like a broken wrist. The pedestrian stepped into the bike lane suddenly and without any warning and was wearing a hooded jacket with the hood up and earphones. I ended up in the middle of the road, bruised but with no serious injuries. My front wheel is damaged, lights broken, brake lever bent and frame scraped etc. Luckily no traffic was coming in either direction. I have reported the incident to the Gardai.

Do I just forget about this or are there legal and medical actions I should take to insure myself against any comeback ? From my point of view, it was an unfortunate accident and I want to draw a line under it. I am adamant that I am in no way liable and I am not going to entertain any claims of liability.

Any sensible advice on what I should do next ?

grizzly

Was there any witnesses?

I'd make a formal report at a Garda station and ask for a copy. Take the name/number of the officer you deal with.

Wheety

Yeah, tell the Gardai. Tell them about the pedestrian walking out in front of you. At least you'll get your side in before there's any complaint made about you.

blorg

Reporting to the Gardai is the essential action.

Other than that I would just leave it and see what happens. Reporting it to the Gardai is all you need to do. Unlikely the ped is going to try anything, if anything you could actually claim off the ped, people have, I would not myself in the circumstances.

Victor

Write up your own statement now, ready for the Garda, before you forget anything.

Lumen

Ah crap, sorry to read about accident. That's just awful.

Does C.I or household insurance cover this sort of thing?

Hope you and the bike are back to full fitness soon.

WicklowRacer

My CI covers competition and club training spins, so no joy there. I'm not interested in claiming for myself, there's enough spare bits in the garage to cover the damage and I'm OK, I just don't want to be hounded by some hungry lawyer when I'm not at fault...

blorg

CI also covers third party if you injure someone else. 24/7 for members, you don't have to be on an organised spin.

Jawgap

Sorry to put a downer on this, but you will probably be held more liable than the pedestrian - the civil courts tend towards presuming pedestrians being largely not culpable for accidents such as this, even when they are stupid enough to walk off a pavement with a hood up and earphones in.

Do as the others suggested - write up a statement and take a few photos of the scene where it happened (at about the time it happened).

Your household insurance should cover you so I'd let them know as soon as possible and if the pedestrian does come a callin' just refer them on to the insurance company.

blorg

There was a case in the UK where a motorcyclist collided with a pedestrian who stepped out without warning. The ped was killed. It was judged that the ped was 100% at fault, and there was no way the biker could have stopped in the circumstances. The biker got compensation. It is not clear that the courts would simply always rule in favour of a pedestrian.

In any case these things are generally settled between the lawyers before they get to a court.

I also think it is unlikely that your average ped is going to try suing a cyclist they walked out in front of. A driver might be a different matter where there is a presumption of an insurance company that will roll over.

Anyway if you are a CI member you are insured for this sort of thing through CI; I would be very surprised if your household insurance covers you for causing third party injuries out and about. If you have household insurance that could cover damage to your bike however (if you have it listed on the policy.)

drBill

Some years ago I crashed into a car which suddenly switched lanes without signalling just as I was cycling past. My shoulder smashed the drivers window and I ended up in a heap on the ground but happily there was no other damage to self or car. After initially denying being at fault the driver was suitably apologetic after a couple of witnesses backed me up. Like you I was afraid of getting hassle from the driver over the broken window so I went to the local Garda station that evening to make a statement.
The garda at the desk took a statement but he was at pains to stress that they don't get involved in any accidents unless a garda was present at the scene. He said that nothing would ever be done with my statement because of this, and I think that basically he only wrote it down to keep me happy, which I guess is fair enough.
However I think there's no harm in you making a statement to the gardai, and getting it on record. If nothing else it might discourage the pedestrian from chancing his arm (no pun intended!) with a claim but I'd it's not likely to have much if any legal standing.
Were there any witnesses who might back you up?
Personally, given that somebody has been injured, and he may now be looking to recoup medical costs, etc I'd have a chat with a solicitor at this point to see what they advise. Best of luck.

tomasrojo

Unless there are witnesses, or you made a statement inculpating yourself in some way, I don't see this going very far.

tomasrojo

Victor wrote: »

Write up your own statement now, ready for the Garda, before you forget anything.

Good advice. I had to do a report to the Gardai over an incident on the way to work. I wrote up my version of the events as soon as I got to work and I'd calmed down enough to be lucid.

You could just write a version to yourself with everything you remember and then edit it down to what's salient.

poochiem

Not being funny but I wouldn't take legal advice from an online forum, call your solicitor or at least your insurer and ask their advice. Won't cost you anything or very little and might prevent you coughing up in the long term. That's not to be disparaging to some of the good advice you receive here.

stopped_clock

Not really specific to this particular accident, but this thread has some really good advice on what to do in case of an accident. It is UK-specific, but worth a read nonetheless since the laws are so similar. I'll be printing a (n abridged) copy to keep in the bag when I'm back commuting.

I think someone might have posted the link on this forum before.

Also, your phone probably has both voice recorder and camera. Use these to keep record of names/addresses/reg no's/reg no's of witnesses/anything else...

The more cynical suggest waiting until bruises etc are at their most purple to photograph them.

IM0

WicklowRacer wrote: »

My front wheel is damaged, lights broken, brake lever bent and frame scraped etc

I cant believe no one said "sue them", they were in the wrong and it sounds like your gear has been damaged and you were hurt/shaken.
So youre saying you are in no way responsible for this? - fair enough, if you feel that strongly and more importantly can prove it - Sue the BASTARD! !

Dumbasses need to learn how to move around the place!

Of course thats all stressfull, so depends how much you want it really.

mmclo

Gardai are not of much relevance unless there is a criminal prosecution which I think is highly unlikely. If there are no witneses a civil action will be of little effect either. There are such things as "accidents" where fault does not necessarily have to be attributed. If your household insurance is involved it will only be on foot of a potenital civil action which nearly alway goes to the PIAB now http://www.injuriesboard.ie/eng/

Anyway what would the damges be...medical costs €50 etc. At work I'm party to a no fault medical expenses policy (seperately to a multi million public liability policy) If somebody gets injured any medical bills are covered no quibble & no fault up to €500. I wouldn't be surprised if CI had something like this built in to their policy?

So the answer is really do nothing and if anybody comes after you tell the truth

Of course as previously stated this should not be construed in any way as legal advice

Lumen

me@ucd wrote: »

I cant believe no one said "sue them"...Sue the BASTARD! !

I think it's nice when people can resolve their differences without calling a lawyer.

TheJones

poochiem wrote: »

Not being funny but I wouldn't take legal advice from an online forum, call your solicitor or at least your insurer and ask their advice. Won't cost you anything or very little and might prevent you coughing up in the long term. That's not to be disparaging to some of the good advice you receive here.

Great advice, strongly suggest this being your first move, however don't worry too much as these accidents happen more often than you think and the fear of being liable not only for damages but also any associated legal fees prevents most parties involved in these unfortunate incidents from furthering their respective cases within the courts service.

P.s. sorry to hear about the smash, sounds horrible!

IM0

Lumen wrote: »

I think it's nice when people can resolve their differences without calling a lawyer.

me too dont get me wrong, Im no ambulance chaser!, but there is a time and place and eejits need to learn sometimes.
I was presuming the pedestrian in question would not pay up for his damages/injuries so get the lawyers involved if need be.

WicklowRacer

An update - this has worked itself out and all injuries are minor (much to my surprise) and its smiles and shrugging of shoulders all round.

An unexpected twist was that my reporting of the incident to the gardai triggered an approach by a garda to the pedestrian to see if "they wanted to take things further". Thankfully the pedestrian did not but I feel somewhat aggrieved at the immediate presumption of my guilt.

On reflection, I'm getting increasingly annoyed about this - in different circumstances I could have sustained serious injury had I been hit by a moving vehicle when I was thrown into the middle of the road on impact.

As a previous poster indicated, the pedestrian is always assumed the innocent party. Its a sobering thought that if the pedestrian was so inclined, I could be facing criminal and civil charges for the same incident.

Jumpy

Not criminal. Only civil. Which is bad enough.

blorg

Sue the ped and you open yourself up to the risk of a counterclaim. If ped has a broken wrist that is worth around €15-25k personal injury + expenses, medical and legal. And that is presuming the wrist heals itself perfectly, it can go up significantly more if the ped has ongoing issues from it. You can add loss of earnings on top of that if relevant. It would not go to the PIAB as they only deal with cases where liability is not contested, so there would be substantial legal fees.

From what I can make out you do not have serious injuries youself so this would seem to be a pretty bad idea. It may be 100% the ped's fault but if there are no witnesses how do you prove that and it will come down to negotiation.

It would not be a bad idea to make a statement to CI regarding the accident, I think they may require this notification within a certain timeframe of any accident that may result in a third party claim.

WicklowRacer

Jumpy wrote: »

Not criminal. Only civil. Which is bad enough.

I'm not sure about that - the garda seemed pretty confident that I could be charged with *something*...

Jumpy

WicklowRacer wrote: »

I'm not sure about that - the garda seemed pretty confident that I could be charged with *something*...

What criminal offense?

Attempted Murder?
Manslaughter?
Drink Driving?

There isnt anything that could stick on you in court.

blorg

Glad to hear that, the ped obviously sounds reasonable which is always nice to hear.

WicklowRacer wrote: »

An unexpected twist was that my reporting of the incident to the gardai triggered an approach by a garda to the pedestrian to see if "they wanted to take things further". Thankfully the pedestrian did not but I feel somewhat aggrieved at the immediate presumption of my guilt.

That is pretty shocking, I would be interested in a full account of your dealings with the gardaí on this.

Goes to show, witnesses really are essential.

blorg

Jumpy wrote: »

What criminal offense?

Attempted Murder?
Manslaughter?
Drink Driving?

There isnt anything that could stick on you in court.

I am sure there are offences related to careless or negligent cycling that could be made to stick. There have been a number of convictions in the UK. Almost certainly though any civil settlement would be far higher than the inevitably small fine you would get for banging into a pedestrian, you can even kill them quite negligently and only be fined a derisory amount.

WicklowRacer

blorg wrote: »

Glad to hear that, the ped obviously sounds reasonable which is always nice to hear.

That is pretty shocking, I would be interested in a full account of your dealings with the gardaí on this.

Goes to show, witnesses really are essential.

I was shocked too by the action and attitude but I am not going into details on a public forum.

Its hard to focus on getting witness details when you just been binned...

BostonB

You probably have some shock takes a while for it to go away, even if you've not been hurt. Bad luck btw. Had some near miss with Suicide Peds before.

tomasrojo

It does occur to me that while this clearly wasn't your fault, as you describe it, it is as well, if there is no traffic behind you, to cycle a good bit more than an arm's length out from the side of the road to allow for incidents such as these, especially if you want to travel at a decent speed. The cycle lanes here tend to hug the side of the road and are too narrow, placing cyclists far too close to pedestrians and roadside debris.

The advice in Cyclecraft is to concentrate on the best road position and ignore the cycle lane. Even with the mandatory-use law here, it's still the best thing to do, from the point of view of avoiding spills and collisions.

Anyway, you probably know all that. Just thought I'd say it in case it might be some use to you.

Mr. Presentable

WicklowRacer wrote: »

An unexpected twist was that my reporting of the incident to the gardai triggered an approach by a garda to the pedestrian to see if "they wanted to take things further". Thankfully the pedestrian did not but I feel somewhat aggrieved at the immediate presumption of my guilt.

As a previous poster indicated, the pedestrian is always assumed the innocent party. Its a sobering thought that if the pedestrian was so inclined, I could be facing criminal and civil charges for the same incident.

Glad everything worked out for you. But, swap ped for cyclist and cyclist for motorist and you have the situation motorists face every day with cyclists.

Mucco

The London FGSS forum have a useful thread on what to do in case of an accident. Obviously UK orientated:

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread4213.html

TheJones

Good news and congratulations, again the threat of counter suit and associated legal expenses incurred is usually enough to prevent these cases progressing. Time to draw a line underneath the accident and move on although no doubt tentatively when around town!

Remember as purely a precaution keep copies of any reports, statements and the member of the GS you had been dealing with in a safe place in the unlikely event that this manifests itself into a civil case at a later date. It is a recession after all and who knows what nonsense spoken to the injured party over the following weeks may achieve.

May seem like overkill but we live in a socially skewed society where an unfortunate majority see the above as a financial opportunity, hope your case remains the exception to the rule, good luck and best regards

mmclo

Don't overestimate the level of knowledge or understanding of many Gardai on the criminal justice and prosecutorial system, they only prosecute for minor offences. Judges are a mixed bag if it was a criminal prosecution, would have to be guilt beyond reasonable doubt to careless driving etc. at worst the probation act. Many judges would throw it out and senior Gardai might not prosecute as I'm fairly sure the DPP/State solr would not