Overclocking Issue

DECEiFER

Hi folks,

When I try to overclock on my new motherboard, I get a strange symptom. I turn off the PC afterward, turn off the PSU at the back, push the power butter to drain the stored power on the board, and then turn the PSU back on. I leave it a moment, and then hit the power button. Essentially I'm trying to recreate a scenario where I have the PC plugged out when I'm not in and then go to turn it back on. Normally it's not a hassle. But, I normally haven't been overclocking.

My overclock is only on the CPU, going from 3.0GHz stock to 3.6GHz. I am leaving the RAM clock at its default. The E8400 is well able for that amount of overclocking, with no or little voltage increase. Plenty of people are able to get it passed 4.0GHz! Mine has E0 stepping so it's a good one. I checked all my settings and tried several a various combination of settings as a method of eliminating what might be causing the problem. I found nothing.


The problem:

OK, so I recreate the plugged out scenario and when I turn the PC back on, the BIOS doesn't post. Rather it spins everything up, the power LED comes on for a second, turns off automatically before anything kicks in (it's all very quick), and then turns on again automatically. After that it boots up as normal, but it's still quite a worrying problem.


My overclocking settings:

Ai Overclock Tuner (default is Auto): Manual
--FSB Frequency (default is Auto): 400MHz
--PCI-E Frequency (default is Auto): 100MHz

FSB Strap to Northbridge (default is Auto): 400MHz

DRAM Frequency (default is Auto): DDR2-800MHz

DRAM Timings: (default is Auto): 5-5-5-18

CPU Frequency (default is Auto, VID is 1.25): 1.25v

DRAM Frequency (default is Auto, vendor recommends 1.9v for it is XMS2): 1.9v

CPU Spectrum Spread (default is Auto): Disabled

PCI-E Spectrum Spread (default is Auto): Disabled


Disabling C1E or SpeedStep made no difference whatsoever, so I put them back on. Everything else inside of the Ai Tweaker in the BIOS is set to Auto. I don't know what manual settings should be applied to certain other voltages and timings, so I'm not going to gamble on it without first knowing more. Increasing the Vcore to 1.275 didn't make a difference either. The only thing that does it setting the FSB Frequency and PCI-E Frequency (bundled settings) back to Auto, along with setting the FSB Strap to Northbridge back to Auto. Keeping the RAM timings set manually at 5-5-5-18 and the same manually set voltages for the CPU and RAM does not cause any issue when the FSB clock speeds are set at Auto (default).

Also, temperatures are not an issue. They are absolutely fine with or without the overclock. Since the Vcore is ~ the same as at stock, there is little difference.


My Specifications are as follows:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz
Motherboard: ASUS P5Q SE Plus
Memory: Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C5C DDR2-6400 4096MB CL5 (2 x 2048MB modules running in Dual-Channel mode)
Graphics Card: Gainward ATI HD4850 512MB GDDR3 VRAM "Golden Sample"
Hard Drive 1: Samsung SpinPoint F1 1TB SATA2 (32MB Buffer)
Hard Drive 2: Western Digital Caviar 500GB ATA-100 (16MB Buffer)
Hard Drive 3: Western Digital Caviar 500GB ATA-100 (16MB Buffer)
Sound Card 1: Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2ZS Platinum Pro PCI (with an External I/O Module)
Sound Card 2: Yamaha DSP-Factory DS2416 Studio PCI (with the 5.25" AX-44 Breakout Box)
ADAT Interface: Yamaha AX16AT PCI Digital Optical I/O Card (linked with the DS2416 and AX-44)
Speakers: Creative I-Trigue 3300 2.1
Audio Monitors: M-Audio Studiophile AV 40
Headset: Creative HS-600
Mouse: Logitech G5 USB Laser
Keyboard: Logitech Y-BH52 PS/2 Media
VDU: LG Flatron L1917S 19" LCD Monitor
Optical Drive: LG Super Multi DVD±RW SATA-150 Burner
Scanner: Xerox 2400 Series
Chassis: Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Series Case
PSU: Corsair TX650W 650 Watt
Aftermarket Cooling: Scythe S-FLEX 120mm 1200RPM Case Fans (x2)



Does anyone have any ideas? Reading around has led me to certain advice given that the power switch is faulty, a grounding issue, or the PSU is unable to cope. I don't see how any can apply to me, so I'm at a loss!



Thanks folks.

Solitaire

Moved to T&M. You should get a more concise answer for that kind of arcanery in here

DECEiFER

Solitaire wrote: »

Moved to T&M. You should get a more concise answer for that kind of arcanery in here

Ah excellent, sorry about that.

I'm looking into manually setting the FSB Termination Voltage. I'd be curious to know what that should be set at for a 3.6GHz overclock of a 45nm E8x00 CPU? Would setting it manually, and correctly, solve the problem?

DECEiFER

An update:

Well, it seems that the same problem occurs even if I JUST set the DRAM Frequency to DDR2-800MHz and leave everything else as their default, Auto, so all clocks are running at stock speeds. So even though I'm only telling the BIOS/Motherboard that my RAM is DDR2-800MHz, which it already knows. When that's also set to Auto, it detects it fine as DDR2-800MHz when everything's at stock, as it is now. So why would setting even the DDR2-800MHz in manually as the DRAM Frequency cause the same turn off/turn on problem?!

I also tried leaving that as Auto and setting the FSB Frequency to 400MHz on its own too, but that didn't solve the problem. It seems that any manual clock settings cause the issue.

The only manual settings that don't are the DRAM Timings, which I still have entered in manually, and the CPU/RAM Voltages, which are also set in manually now, and the CPU and PCI-E Spectrum Spread settings. I have them set to Auto since I'm not overclocking at present (there is no Enabled option, it's Auto or Disabled only).


Hmmm...............

PogMoThoin

Whats happening, it powers on, spins up, then halts suddenly a few seconds later, then after 2 seconds of silence it powers on fully as normal?

Its not an issue, I have the exact same thing with my mobo (p5k deluxe) when overclocked. No idea what causes it, but it happens everytime I boot. I've had this pc running at 3.2Ghz (400x8) for 18 months without a single failed oc.

DECEiFER

Thanks for your reply, PogMoThoin.

Well, it sort of goes like you said. I don't know about the halt bit. I'm also unable to hear any beep codes, should there be any, as my case has no PC Speaker.

Here's how I can best describe it:
- Power on after discharging the motherboard of all electrical charge, like plugging it out.
- PC switches on for a second, power LED comes on for a second, then it shuts down automatically.
- After a second of being off, it turns back on and boots as normal.

It just seems strange, but if it's normal, then fine. But it doesn't seem normal, unless I am wrong?

Like, why would it do that, even if I set the DRAM Frequency manually with no overclock? Why do it at all, even if I do manually set the FSB? There has to be a reason, and even if the reason is perfectly genuine/quite normal, I'd like to know why. Last thing I want to do is prematurely end the life of my motherboard or CPU, or more.

It can't be the PSU, as there's no extra power needed, and I'm sure my 650W provides plenty of headroom anyhow.

PogMoThoin

I get the beep codes as I got a case speaker, I get one beep on clicking the power on button, then it halts, then one long beep as it boots as normal. Does this every time, never fails to boot and as I said its been oc'ed to the max for 18 months without a single failed boot or crash. I've a feeling its the same thing as our two mobo's are very similar, just different chipsets, everything else including the bios would be nearly the same

DECEiFER

Do you know what the beeps translate to?

AMI is my BIOS, and I'd assume it's yours too.

http://www.5starsupport.com/info/beep_codes.htm

One Short: DRAM Refresh Failure

One Long: Passed


So, the problem lies in the DRAM... I wonder why it does this, though.

BTW, also, out of curiosity, do you manually set your FSB Termination Voltage (VTT) and/or Northbridge and Southbridge Voltages? Or, do you leave them all at Auto?


I think I need to get a PC Speaker. On first glance, can't seem to find one on DealExtreme.com. Might end up robbing my ma's this weekend, she has my old PC, so why not.

PogMoThoin

DECEiFER wrote: »

BTW, also, out of curiosity, do you manually set your FSB Termination Voltage (VTT) and/or Northbridge and Southbridge Voltages? Or, do you leave them all at Auto?

For an average oc auto is fine but some pushing for a higher oc insist on setting them manually. Its not an exact science, more trial and error, just start with the lowest setting and keep upping till you push it through. One thing You should do is set Your ram voltage to 2.1V (if thats what they take) and first 4 ram timings manually, as in 5-5-5-18, leave rest on auto.

DECEiFER

PogMoThoin wrote: »

For an average oc auto is fine but some pushing for a higher oc insist on setting them manually. Its not an exact science, more trial and error, just start with the lowest setting and keep upping till you push it through. One thing You should do is set Your ram voltage to 2.1V (if thats what they take) and first 4 ram timings manually, as in 5-5-5-18, leave rest on auto.

I set the timings manually, even now, when I have everything else on Auto. Everything, that is, except the CPU and RAM Voltages. I always have my RAM set at 1.9v, as because it's Corsair XMS2, that's what it's tested on. Says it on the label, and on the datasheet for it. I'm not overclocking the RAM, so setting it at 2.1v isn't needed, I wouldn't think.

Thanks, Pog.


Does anyone know what a DRAM Refresh Failure is?

PogMoThoin

Na, 1.9v is fine if thats what they say, I wasn't sure what they take as ram in both my gaming pc's take 2.1v

DECEiFER

More updates:

I tried using only one stick. I used both the sticks individually, same issue.

I tried using ASUS Ai Booster. So I went to Advanced and put in manual settings.

FSB: 400MHz, DRAM Frequency: 800MHz, Multiplier: 9, PCI-E Frequency: 100MHz. I did that and surprisingly it posted first time, no automatic shut-down. BUT, it's a bittersweet tale. Going into the BIOS, I looked at what the low-level configuration would yield from Ai Booster. Most of everything was set at Auto, but the DRAM was set to ~960MHz. That's all irrelevant, as what occurs next is what I think is what needs to be examined more closely.

It will continue to post first time, BUT if you so much as tweak a minor setting in the BIOS, or not, and "Exit and Save Settings". It will shut down to apply the clocks. Sure it would always do that, and that's when the problem occurs thereafter. Ai Booster applies the new clock speeds without shutting down the system to apply the new clocks (just a system restart required) or performing any C.P.R.

Anyone else have any insight?

DECEiFER

OK. So I robbed a PC Speaker from my ma's machine and give it a whirl there.

I turn on the machine, no beep(s), it shuts down automatically as expected. Then it resumes, and does the one post beep. So the DRAM Refresh Failure doesn't seem to occur as I had previously suspected. There doesn't seem to be anything to warn me that something's wrong. In-fact, I ran a Prime95 Blend test the other night with the overclock on and got 9 hours stable before one of the two workers stopped due to an error. By the time I had checked it, the second worker was still tapping away after 12 hours. That was with a Vcore of ~1.20v. I enabled Load-Line Calibration to remove Vdroop and I turned C1E and SpeedStep off, as they can contribute to unstable overclocks.

I have since upped the Vcore to 1.225v and I will perform another Prime95 Blend test tonight to see if I can get more than 9 hours of stability out of it. I think I'll get that started now and let it run until I'm up in the morning.


If anyone has anything to contribute as to why the whole automatic shutdown occurs, seeing as the motherboard isn't doing C.P.R., I'd love to hear from ya!

I suspect, and it's only a suspicion, that it's adjusting to the new frequencies in real-time on power up and then turning itself off and on again to go through a successful post with the new timings. Can anyone confirm or bust this myth?


Thanks all.

Anti

The one thing im worried about is in another post i think you said you bought a pretty cheap motherboard. Most of the cheaper boards are horrible to overclock as they were not really designed to do it, but have some of the functionality. Also from another pic of your pc i seen the inside was a complete mess with cables all over the gaff, also noticed stock cooling on the cpu too. Do you have decent airflow in the case?

DECEiFER

Anti wrote: »

The one thing im worried about is in another post i think you said you bought a pretty cheap motherboard. Most of the cheaper boards are horrible to overclock as they were not really designed to do it, but have some of the functionality. Also from another pic of your pc i seen the inside was a complete mess with cables all over the gaff, also noticed stock cooling on the cpu too. Do you have decent airflow in the case?

I used to own a MSI P43 Neo-F, which from looking at the board I can see it has 3-phase power. I now own an ASUS P5Q SE Plus, which has an 8-phase design. It's not the most expensive board in the world but it should be able to handle what is a minor overclock on the E8400 going from 3.0GHz to 3.6GHz. The thing is, even if I manually set the clocks to stock, taking it off Auto, the same thing occurs. The board supports a FSB of 1600MHz, which is what it's at when I clock my CPU to 3.6GHz (400 x 9.0).

As for my terrible cable management, well, I've always said I'd fix it someday. That day is coming...soon...

The funny thing is, it's always on my own machine that cables seem to go all over the shop. I have build machines for others and managed to keep it all nice and tidy! I think it's a combination of the fact that I'm generally an untidy person and because I have more than the average amount of PCI cards, and other hardware. In terms of quantity, my midi tower is pretty full at the bottom end (where the mess is).

But that said, my airflow is fine. My intake and exhaust fans are Scythe S-FLEX 1200RPM, which are much better than the stock fans that came with my case in 2005. I also clean my air filter at the front of the case regularly. My three hard disks are kept very cool with that fan going, so no complaints there.

Overclocking the E8400 to 3.6GHz on stock air cooling is fine, my temperatures have never been over-the-top. I keep an eye on these more than once daily. I also try to keep as low as voltage as possible to help in that department. If I wanted to venture into the 4GHz region, I'd have to consider something much better. Water, even. That doesn't tempt me, though.

I did and will continue to perform iterations of Intel Burn Test on my 64-bit installation of Windows 7 and use the maximum amount of RAM available to me out of my 4GB (usually around 3020GB free with little applications open). The tests have passed so far, after bringing my CPU to its knees. It's one hell of a stress test! Thankfully no applications or games that I use will come close to stressing the CPU that far on a daily basis.

I'm also considering re-applying my Akasa 450 Thermal Compound (silver) again, as I did a bit of a quick job on it two weeks ago when I replaced my board. It wasn't a bad job, but I'd say I could have done it a tad better is all. The temperatures are fine, they'd be no worse off on stock clocks, only for the fact that Load-Line Calibration would be disabled and Vdroop would cause a major drop in Vcore, which in turn would lower my CPU's temperature. Both of my CPU core's diodes and the motherboard sensors are not reporting anything dangerous at all currently.