DOSE ANYONE KNOW A PLACE THAT TEACHES SYSTEMA??!!

paddy 1916

HI, i am based in limerick and am wondering if there is a place that teaches sambo or systema or Krav Maga

donalcarmody

one of my buddies has been training systema for a few years malcolm griffin in tralee.. is tralee out of your bounds>?
there is a krav maga teacher setting up in tralee soon as far as i know.. not sure where thou

there is a new gym opened in limerick mma bjj and thai boxing if you fancy ne of it?

Doug Cartel

You're probably best off going with something available locally, instead of setting your heart on something you can't train in. Sooooooooooo...

1. SAMBO is very similar to Judo, so you could try that - especially if you can find somewhere that does Russian style judo.
2. There's a massive amount of hype & marketing involved with Krav Maga (TM), but at the heart of it, it's mainly Muay Thai with some sketchy knife defences thrown in.
3. Systema is basically complete nonsense, and you're better of staying away from it, or anything like it.

paddy 1916

no tralee is closer...would you be able to pass on theres numbers ??

paddy 1916

Doug Cartel what would you think would be the better to learn??

Doug Cartel

It really depends on what you want to get out of it, and what the schools available to you are like.

Personally, I do Judo and I'd really like to try SAMBO. I briefly trained judo under a Russian a while ago, and he had some great ways of setting up throws that upped my game very quickly.

O'Leprosy

Doug Cartel wrote: »

[*]Systema is basically complete nonsense, and you're better of staying away from it, or anything like it.
[/LIST]

Systema Jayus, their's chancers everywhere looking for a quick buck . Never heard of it before so had to look up wikipedia, ah yes, another one of these DEADLY, CRUSHING, KILLING martial arts which can be learned and remembered for a lifetime in just few easy lessons developed by the Mossad/SAS/Spetnaz/Green Berets etc, all for just only € XXX

I'm sure as you say Doug, basically complete nonsense, and you're better of staying away from it, or anything like it.

JFisher

Actually if you get a good instructor then systema is a fine art - lots of good fitness and conditioning, all ranges of fighting covered, they do a lot on fear control stuff too. These are the guys I trained with before I moved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0I7ffo2E08

Last I heard of Malcolm he was teaching in Australia! I met him at a kickboxing club in Tralee before, but don't know where he is now - I think I heard he was fighting Thai in the States a few years back too

The only other systema group I know of are a bunch of doormen in Belfast who recently set up a club - but I guess that don't help much!

john

Soulcrew09

Doug Cartel wrote: »

1. There's a massive amount of hype & marketing involved with Krav Maga (TM), but at the heart of it, it's mainly Muay Thai with some sketchy knife defences thrown in.

Where have you done Krav Maga?

Southern Dandy

paddy 1916 wrote: »

HI, i am based in limerick and am wondering if there is a place that teaches sambo or systema or Krav Maga

Krav maga started in tralee last night, go on to krav maga ireland and look at the intructors, locations etc. Its on in killarney too on saturdays in the aurora gym. Ring them first though there contact details should be on the site.

www.kmireland.com

Southern Dandy

Doug Cartel wrote: »

You're probably best off going with something available locally, instead of setting your heart on something you can't train in. Sooooooooooo...

1. SAMBO is very similar to Judo, so you could try that - especially if you can find somewhere that does Russian style judo.
2. There's a massive amount of hype & marketing involved with Krav Maga (TM), but at the heart of it, it's mainly Muay Thai with some sketchy knife defences thrown in.
3. Systema is basically complete nonsense, and you're better of staying away from it, or anything like it.

Now i dont be claim to be an expert by no means when it comes krav maga, but its in no way shape or form the same as muay thai. Systema is used by the spetznaz and far from nonsence its just using momentum an all that like aikido. The likes of taek kwan do, judo and all that is just stand up head to head fighting (absolutely nothing wrong with that), krav maga is self defence whether it is from chokes, guns, knives, kicks or multiple attackers...

www.kmireland.com

paxo

paddy 1916 wrote: »

HI, i am based in limerick and am wondering if there is a place that teaches sambo or systema or Krav Maga

Paddy
I have some experience of both Krav Maga and Systema. Although they are both considered as non sporting self defence orientated arts IMO they have significant differences in how they structure and approach their training. Krav was developed by Imi Litchenfeld and is based on his background in boxing, wrestling and his experience of street fights against Nazis in Bratislava. It is a technique orientated system in that it has prescribed responses for specific attacks. Instructors tend to be very consistent in their teaching and there is little room for individual intrepretation
Systema is supposedly based on traditional Russian MA's it does not teach techniques per say but emphysises the need to use breathing, form, relaxation and movement as the means to stay safe. Instructors tend to vary widely in their approach based on their previous training and particular strengths and preferences. If you are looking to learn one of these systems from a self protection perspective then IMHO Krav as a technique based system is easier to pick up and the classes usually provide a good work out. Systema is harder to pick up, especially if you have not trained MA previously and usually is not as aerobic in nature as Krav. If you have the opportunity then try both and see which works for you.
Paxo

Doug Cartel

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Now i dont be claim to be an expert by no means when it comes krav maga, but its in no way shape or form the same as muay thai.

Yeah, that was badly phrased. KM is not based on MT, but it does involve a lot of getting in close and fighting from a standing clinch - which is a big part of MT. I was just throwing out ideas for alternatives that might be available locally. Now I could have said to search for RBSD, but frankly I think that field is full of chancres that prey of peoples fears to make a buck and I wouldn't want to recommend a school without seeing it first. MT is usually something I recommend without seeing the school, as it has a much tighter consistency of teaching quality between schools .

Systema is used by the spetznaz and far from nonsence its just using momentum an all that like aikido.

Systema is no more used by the Spetznaz than golf or stamp collecting. Sure some guys might train in it in their spare time, but that doesn't mean it has official Spetznaz approval. You need to be careful about these "special-forces" type martial arts in general. Remember that actual soldiers use guns and air-support to do their fighting, the un-armed combat training they receive is really quite small - much less than a hobbyist martial artist.

southwestboy

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Now i dont be claim to be an expert by no means when it comes krav maga, but its in no way shape or form the same as muay thai. Systema is used by the spetznaz and far from nonsence its just using momentum an all that like aikido. The likes of taek kwan do, judo and all that is just stand up head to head fighting (absolutely nothing wrong with that), krav maga is self defence whether it is from chokes, guns, knives, kicks or multiple attackers...

www.kmireland.com

Cheer southern dandy for the link to kmireland. Started Krav Maga in Tralee last Friday night. Very good well structured class. Liked it so much i done the class in Killarney on Saturday. Krav Maga looks to be the real deal man( Nothing like Muay Thai!!!) . Have about 5 years martial arts experience in - TKD and Judo. Krav Maga seems to offer a no frills more reality based approach to self defense. The instructor is very good. He is a fully qualified IKMF instructor. Has a great way of teaching. He gave me a good overview of Krav Maga. He doesn't seem to be a money grabber either, just a nice guy. A great bunch of guys training there aswell. They made me feel really wecome.Would recommend it. Cheers again for the link

paddy 1916

Thanks lads for the help..im hopping to start the krav maga in tralee this week
THANKS AGAIN
Paddy

meducation

people are always dissing systema vladimir vasiliev accepts challenges i've heard, so go and try it, spetsnaz/gru use it these are not organization that get beaten very easilly,


probably better to learn it on top of a more competitive martial art though cos some of it just looks naff:) and impractical.

but all it boils down to is cqc,systema seems to be there way of maketing it but its just russian cqc , and yes spetnaz do train russian cqc

Doug Cartel

meducation wrote: »

but all it boils down to is cqc,systema seems to be there way of maketing it but its just russian cqc , and yes spetnaz do train russian cqc

They're Russian, so their CQC program is by definition Russian CQC. It's not ststema though, it's SAMBO.

systema85

Doug Cartel wrote: »

You're probably best off going with something available locally, instead of setting your heart on something you can't train in. Sooooooooooo...

1. SAMBO is very similar to Judo, so you could try that - especially if you can find somewhere that does Russian style judo.
2. There's a massive amount of hype & marketing involved with Krav Maga (TM), but at the heart of it, it's mainly Muay Thai with some sketchy knife defences thrown in.
3. Systema is basically complete nonsense, and you're better of staying away from it, or anything like it.

For one tthing, Krav Maga has no "sketchy" defences, have you ever even tried it? its one of the most effective combat systems out there. If Systema is complete nonsense, then why do russian special forces use it? Why does it work? why is it one of the top 3 CQB`s in the world? Get your facts straight.

systema85

O'Leprosy wrote: »

Systema Jayus, their's chancers everywhere looking for a quick buck . Never heard of it before so had to look up wikipedia, ah yes, another one of these DEADLY, CRUSHING, KILLING martial arts which can be learned and remembered for a lifetime in just few easy lessons developed by the Mossad/SAS/Spetnaz/Green Berets etc, all for just only € XXX

I'm sure as you say Doug, basically complete nonsense, and you're better of staying away from it, or anything like it.

Once again, someone who hasnt a clue what they`re talking about, try it before you knock it.

dasmoose

meducation wrote: »

spetsnaz/gru use it these are not organization that get beaten very easilly,

That might be because of all the guns.

Doug Cartel

If Systema is complete nonsense, then why do russian special forces use it?

Russian special forces do not use systema.

systema85

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Russian special forces do not use systema.

Yes, they DO, and have done for quite awhile.

Baggio...

systema85 wrote: »

For one tthing, Krav Maga has no "sketchy" defences, have you ever even tried it? its one of the most effective combat systems out there.

Why do you think KM is one of the most effective self-defense systems around?

systema85 wrote: »

If Systema is complete nonsense, then why do russian special forces use it? Why does it work? why is it one of the top 3 CQB`s in the world? Get your facts straight.

Not wanting to get into a full systema discussion here. However, a lot of the "elite units" around the world train in some very rubbery stuff indeed. Just look at some of the latest USMC material. If anything, they've gone back to some very "artsy" stuff. I'm just saying, that just because some factions of the military use something that does not make it automatically the best thing around.

The other factor about unarmed combat, and the military is the fact that most units spend very little time on it. There's very little point in doing so. It makes much more sense for them to spend time on weapon usage, as that's what they will be using 99.999% of the time. Most units have a very small module on unarmed combat at the best of times. A lot of the time spent training is more out of personal interest.

Doug Cartel

systema85 wrote: »

Yes, they DO, and have done for quite awhile.

I'd love to hear your source for this. The earliest written reference I've seen for it is a Batman comic from the 80s where it was used by a character called KGBeast. The most prominent reference I've seen is in the 2007 book, Spook Country, by William Gibson, and he says it's just made up.

Ug Lee

Well what is Krav Maga because it seems to keep changing?

If you have a look at www.kravmagaireland.com, you will see someone do a Krav Maga defence which is move for move the trap and roll defence from Gracie Jiu-Jitsu lesson one.

BigDuffman

I have no experience of Systema neither am I in the Spetznas, but I can speculate! It seems to be a mix of sambo with lost of breathing, rolling and conditioning exercises.
From what I've seen there also seems to be some form of mystic / spiritual element?? Some of the striking seems very effective and it all looks very impressive (which will obviously appeal to the Spetz as in their demos they tend to do a whole load of backwards somersault whilst throwing a sharpened spade after breaking cinder blocks with their face....all done whilst amazingly wearing a stripey camp Tshirt).

In terms of practical self defence, IMO Krav is a fantastic system. For some reason amongst purists and traditionalists, they tend to dismiss it out of hand as a money making spin. But most people who give it a shot will know how dedicated the likes of Aidin Carrol are in promoting real world practical self defence that wont instill false confidence that can get someone killed. No "sketchy knife defence" at all. In fact it seems quite the opposite compared with some tradtional Martial Arts.

But sure that debate will drive everyone mental at this stage and as the fella says opinions are like a$$holes. Most modern systems are going back to basics take a look at the MCMAP sytem for example. Quite progressive...should be interesting to see the civvi spin offs in a few years.

Dave Joyce

Right, first up and been perfectly honest and from what I've seen of Vladimir Vasiliev on Youtube, I think Systema is the greatest load of crap I've seen. The empty hand and one on one stuff is bad enough but Jesus the knife and multiple opponent stuff is downright dangerous and bull****.

The other factor about unarmed combat, and the military is the fact that most units spend very little time on it. There's very little point in doing so. It makes much more sense for them to spend time on weapon usage, as that's what they will be using 99.999% of the time. Most units have a very small module on unarmed combat at the best of times. A lot of the time spent training is more out of personal interest

From what I've seen from working with the SEALS and Delta guys with Sayoc Tactical, that's not necessarily the case Rob. A lot of it will depend on their operations and sometimes that assignment may not allow for primary weapons use. I remember Sayoc Tactical been contacted by SF about a possible contract in Haiti a couple of years ago looking for training in some non lethal weapons training for a sensitive situation that was ongoing at that time. However I would agree that mainstream military units spend most of their time on primary/secondary weapons training.

Baggio...

Dave Joyce wrote: »

From what I've seen from working with the SEALS and Delta guys with Sayoc Tactical, that's not necessarily the case Rob. A lot of it will depend on their operations and sometimes that assignment may not allow for primary weapons use.

Hey Dave,

I see what your saying and I'd agree - It really depends the on the operation and it's objectives etc.

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Right, first up and been perfectly honest and from what I've seen of Vladimir Vasiliev on Youtube, I think Systema is the greatest load of crap I've seen. The empty hand and one on one stuff is bad enough but Jesus the knife and multiple opponent stuff is downright dangerous and bull****.

It wouldn't be my cup of tea if I'm being honest here.

Roper

systema85 wrote: »

why is it one of the top 3 CQB`s in the world?

As rated by who? CQB magazine? heat? E4's Top 50 CQBs?

The worst thing about this stuff for me is how they're all trying to legitimise themselves now that the "deadly special forces use this" cash cow is slowly dying. So now you have Krav Maga guys doing correspondence courses in BJJ and saying that it's "lost it's way and become too sporting", like they gave a fvck about that 6 years ago.

I'm sure there are genuine guys involved in all of this, but really most of it preys on the fear of others and tries to lend quick fixes to a really complex social problem.

arybvtcw0eolkf

systema85 wrote: »

For one tthing, Krav Maga has no "sketchy" defences, have you ever even tried it? its one of the most effective combat systems out there.

I've tried it, last time was with the Israeli Defence Forces @ the Wingate Institute, Netanya in 2001.

Everyone one of the IDF guys told me they thought it was rubbish and all primarily trained in other styles, ie Muay Thai, Judo, boxing etc.

I've a lot of friends in the IDF and not one has trained in K.M.

systema85 wrote: »

If Systema is complete nonsense, then why do russian special forces use it? Why does it work? why is it one of the top 3 CQB`s in the world? Get your facts straight.

Have you ever had much exposure to Russians?.

At the risk of offending any Russian's using this forum, but most Russians I've worked with (door work) were bluffer's and without exception every one of them told me they were ex-special forces.

The few I train Judo with all trained in Sambo, I've asked them about Systema none knew anything aboutit.