ULSU Elections!

Dante on Fire

Said i might aswell get the ball rolling on this one:D

Anyone hear any of the same whispers as i did that ppl are already planning to run for stuff?

i Know one or two have said it but its a little early in the year to be discussing it is'nt it?

F**k it sure ...have nothing better to do with my time!

Mossin

Dante on Fire wrote: »

i Know one or two have said it but its a little early in the year to be discussing it is'nt it?

Yes, it is way too early to be talking about this!

But sinec you have started a thread, then yes I do know of some people planning to run for certain positions, but I will not be naming who they are until they have come forward themselves.

Its not the most pressing issue on my agenda right now.....

billy the squid

There is some CRO election thingy going on on Friday . some first year up against some fourth year. other than that I know nowt.

Dante on Fire

i thought they were decided already?why are we voting for that

yup i know a few but i dont really wanna 'out em ' so to speak until they've said it it just one lad came up to me in the lodge to say he was running for it...pissed outta his mind

i heard that its competition all the way with at least two for each position although welfare has only one but i was gonna go myself but i dunno should ya start thinking bout it now if you are gonna go?its fairly interesting

it seems like a decision you have to put alot into and know alot about?

bazkennedy

Dante on Fire wrote: »

i thought they were decided already?why are we voting for that

The CRO position was left vacant when the incumbent failed to give appoligies for the ULSU AGM

i heard that its competition all the way with at least two for each position although welfare has only one but i was gonna go myself but i dunno should ya start thinking bout it now if you are gonna go?its fairly interesting

And you are?

sceptre

I don't own very much stuff but I'll bet it all (and half of your stuff too) that this is an early election profile raising attempt. Even woken up after not enough sleep with my tummy sickly I can spot a shill-attempt at three miles.

Still, participation in democracy is good as is raising awareness of things. And yes, a few people mentioned last year or before that they were running for election, as people tend to do. Sometimes they run, sometimes they don't.

Speaking of elections though, quick look at the posters adopted by the two candidates for CRO (the details of why were in An Focal this week somewhere early in the paper): neither of them are exactly lighting the world on fire with imagination. One guy has a nice picture of himself with some family in Uganda or somewhere in front of their hut with a tagline that makes some reference to community, a tagline which must have been dragged kicking and screaming into the poster as it goes with it as well as gravy with ice-cream. The second guy has a "vote for..." on orange card without even the picture effort. With all due respect to the two guys, a pretty poster does not a good candidate make and I can only hope that they'll go and actually ask people for votes later today as there's very little reason on the basis of posters seen to vote for either of them. Still, I wish them well - starting a part-time elected position in week 10 essentially means that you're unlikely to get anything much done anyway so any stated election intentions would be a bit meaningless anyway. Then again, it's one of those half-forgotten not-very-important elections so can't fault them that much.

As for the main elections, I'm sure we'll have lots of whispers before the end of the academic year. Some of them will be here.

Sorry if the above doesn't include my usual ticklish fun: I don't do well after conking out in the early evening and then not being able to sleep later with a tum-tum that wants far more attention than it deserves. Carry on with the idle- or not-so idle speculation.

Dante on Fire

sceptre wrote: »

I don't own very much stuff but I'll bet it all (and half of your stuff too) that this is an early election profile raising attempt. Even woken up after not enough sleep with my tummy sickly I can spot a shill-attempt at three miles

ah sceptre perceptive as ever well done - yup it sure is i've started a new account on the hunt really to find out whats lacking as of late and to find out who's who and if there serious about each position - somehow sceptre i'd say you already have an incling of who i am but one cant blame someone for trying just an info run - hoping to gain some insight into what can be done in the union i know ppl who have said they are running and to say who they are would be too much at this stage so childish as it sounds - i'm not telling(arms crossed)

this is a good grounds to find out what is asked of each office in comparrison to the current union that wont link in with the official bitch about ul thread and so forth.

do many ppl know what each office does? i'm just worried about a union that has a team of ppl who did not know what their position did.... and this is'nt fear mongering but more a realisation that work needs to be done from the off and not babysteps. hope that does'nt soune patronising!

DJCR

Dante on Fire wrote: »

do many ppl know what each office does?

TBH I don't know the answer to this question..... some do, some don't depends on apathy levels!!!

Do you want us to tell you :D:D:D

ninty9er

As far as I'm aware only one officer has been approached by someone serious about running for a position.

That means of all the people who "intend to run" (and remember there were 9 people planning to run for DP and Welfare which eventually went uncontested), only one has bothered to go and find out what the job entails.

Doesn't exactly make for a good basis of making a pitch for a position in which you are responsible for representing approximately 11,000 students.

Essentially Sceptre could find out who all of us are if he doesn't already know. It's what those 5 gold stars and Administrator means.

Dante on Fire

i imagine most are learning about the position from the current sabbatical team and how they opperate this year

i seem to remember that you were one of the ppl who did not contest the position unti the 2nd round ninty9er (when ruan got in)

but then again:

'Doesn't exactly make for a good basis of making a pitch for a position in which you are responsible for representing approximately 11,000 students'.

Its not about making a pitch at all at all its about seeing if thoses who are going for a position know enough about the position and what it entails so we are not left with a starter union really coming to their own so late in the semester.

ninty9er

Dante on Fire wrote: »

i imagine most are learning about the position from the current sabbatical team and how they opperate this year

i seem to remember that you were one of the ppl who did not contest the position unti the 2nd round ninty9er (when ruan got in)

but then again:

'Doesn't exactly make for a good basis of making a pitch for a position in which you are responsible for representing approximately 11,000 students'.

Its not about making a pitch at all at all its about seeing if thoses who are going for a position know enough about the position and what it entails so we are not left with a starter union really coming to their own so late in the semester.

It's all about making a pitch to 11,000 students. The student population must have confidence in its Union, therefore it is a requirement for them to know what they are at.

And while I didn't contest the position at the first opportunity (being precluded by Union rules as a campaign manager, a job I committed to long before). I also had a full time job lined up and ended up running because I saw an opportunity to make a difference. I was not in a position to run the first time.

I spoke to Caitríona at length about what the job entailed before I submitted a nomination form, not after or not when I got the job, there would have been no point. A person would not apply to be a quantum physicist without first checking what the job entails.

Looking at us is going to tell people nothing. And asking us what the job is like isn't going to give you anything, because we will describe the job as "grand" or "keeping me busy". If you want to know about a position for the purposes of elections it will be necessary to find an afternoon to sit down and openly declare to the officer in the position you wish to contest that you wish to contest it and ask to be talked through what it's about, what committees they sit on and what sort of case load is involved.

Nobody has so far done that with any of us bar one person, and it's not for President or my job.

Dante on Fire

ninty9er wrote: »

It's all about making a pitch to 11,000 students. The student population must have confidence in its Union, therefore it is a requirement for them to know what they are at.

And while I didn't contest the position at the first opportunity (being precluded by Union rules as a campaign manager, a job I committed to long before). I also had a full time job lined up and ended up running because I saw an opportunity to make a difference. I was not in a position to run the first time.

I spoke to Caitríona at length about what the job entailed before I submitted a nomination form, not after or not when I got the job, there would have been no point. A person would not apply to be a quantum physicist without first checking what the job entails.


Looking at us is going to tell people nothing. And asking us what the job is like isn't going to give you anything, because we will describe the job as "grand" or "keeping me busy". If you want to know about a position for the purposes of elections it will be necessary to find an afternoon to sit down and openly declare to the officer in the position you wish to contest that you wish to contest it and ask to be talked through what it's about, what committees they sit on and what sort of case load is involved.

Nobody has so far done that with any of us bar one person, and it's not for President or my job.

tell me this did you talke to miss mcgrattan about this before or after the 1st round had closed? i feel that someone who is serious about the position does not submit themselves to something like that without thinking about it beforehand over a long period of time and would not put themselves forward for the position of a campaign manager at risk of loosing the chance to be the best person for the position - you have to see what it looks like to those pple who are genuinely interested in and care about the union...business-like modus operandi and so forth and using the term 'pitch' about your students is showiing a very different side to the union and you can really feel the change around here at the moment.i'm a bit worried that this is going to turn into a different kind of thread i feel its going off on a tangent a little but i suppose looking at the current sabbats will dictate the ppl who will run in the future.

i disagree when you say when we look at you or watch you we can see the type of job it is - the last class reps council was very informative into where ye are at the moment.I think clearly identifying yourself as a candidate so early might be a little hasty as its best to look at it from a student point of veiw first and see what do i want from each position.


it is early days i imagine you guys and girls will be plagued by ppl in the weeks leading up to the election but it is early enough to talk about it people who are going for each position whould have decided by now(thats only my opinion) and would be workning on policies and tackling some of the issues that will be forthcoming for the union as a whole such as the current ents policy and so forth. dont think this is all about going against you either it most certainly is not i must say well done on the creche system you've got going i hear its working very well a great idea!

DJCR

Dante on Fire wrote: »

tell me this did you talke to miss mcgrattan about this before or after the 1st round had closed? i feel that someone who is serious about the position does not submit themselves to something like that without thinking about it beforehand over a long period of time and would not put themselves forward for the position of a campaign manager at risk of loosing the chance to be the best person for the position - you have to see what it looks like to those pple who are genuinely interested in and care about the union...business-like modus operandi and so forth and using the term 'pitch' about your students is showiing a very different side to the union and you can really feel the change around here at the moment.i'm a bit worried that this is going to turn into a different kind of thread i feel its going off on a tangent a little but i suppose looking at the current sabbats will dictate the ppl who will run in the future.

i disagree when you say when we look at you or watch you we can see the type of job it is - the last class reps council was very informative into where ye are at the moment.I think clearly identifying yourself as a candidate so early might be a little hasty as its best to look at it from a student point of veiw first and see what do i want from each position.


it is early days i imagine you guys and girls will be plagued by ppl in the weeks leading up to the election but it is early enough to talk about it people who are going for each position whould have decided by now(thats only my opinion) and would be workning on policies and tackling some of the issues that will be forthcoming for the union as a whole such as the current ents policy and so forth. dont think this is all about going against you either it most certainly is not i must say well done on the creche system you've got going i hear its working very well a great idea!

And what is your opinion of those who have been involved longer than most and have seen first hand what changes they would make - without grilling the current sabats?

I would also be asking what has brought along this sudden "interest" (without sounding in any way negtive - its a valid question) and one of my questions to such people would be .... why haven't they been involved before and tried to get this changes in place before now...... I think it is well realised that you don't have to be a sabat to better student life.

As to the whole campaigning issue.... Campaigning by its nature is political..... you pitch your policies and you get votes... or you don't. I don't think the word pitch has any negative connotations.
As to the issue of it being too early.... maybe not... its good to be prepared and the better prepared the candidates are the better!!!

bluedolphin

DJCR wrote: »

why haven't they been involved before and tried to get this changes in place before now...

It's not always a bad thing to not have been involved previously. Sure, knowledge of the 'system' helps but at the same time not being tarred by said system is also an advantage in bringing innovation and new perspectives. If a prerequisite for running for a sabbatical position was to have been a class rep/some other SU position for X number of years while at UL I think there'd be stagnation. Variety is positive, you know. Sure, people who aren't involved from day 1 might not know the constitutional requirements for the sending out agendas for meetings or something, for example, but surely such trivial matters are secondary to what that potential person could offer in the way of innovative policy-making.

OP, the job is what you want it to be. From the hours you want to work to the policies and issues you want to highlight. You are your own boss (yes, I know technically CRC is but in practice). Speaking to the previous holder of the office will only put forward his/her interpretation. Sure, there are certain outputs that students have come to expect such as welfare/education advice, An Focal (not actually a constitutional requirement at all!), the shop, etc etc etc, but a new sabbat can do as he or she wishes once in office. Undoubtedly, this can work either for the good (innovation, high productivity) or the bad (withdrawal of services, low productivity).

ergonomics

Did anyone else see the post from Dante_on_Fire from about an hour ago? Was there any particular reason it was deleted?

sceptre

It was deleted by the poster themselves - members can delete their own posts within the period allowed for editing, which is currently set to 72 hours if I recall rightly. Happens to a reasonable amount of posts made by many people across the site more often than you'd think.

ergonomics

Well my question regarding why it was deleted was aimed to the OP more than anything. He made some very strong accusations in that post, and put his name to it, but by deleting the post it seems he can't stand behind what he said after all.

sceptre

ergonomics wrote: »

Well my question regarding why it was deleted was aimed to the OP more than anything. He made some very strong accusations in that post, and put his name to it, but by deleting the post it seems he can't stand behind what he said after all.

<

---

Politics moderator. I see it ten times a day. Run for election and some people will say less than fluffy things about you. Get elected and they'll multiply. When the accusations start coming from inside the building, think about getting annoyed[1]. Until then, it's a student with a series of opinions. And there definitely aren't enough of those, even before filtering to highlight useful and/or constructive opinion.

I had another three paragraphs but I dumped them. If some reasonable discussion gets legs I might just paste them in later. Ripped off from those paragraphs though: I suppose what I'm saying is that if there was something of merit in there as complaints go, take heed and consider doing something about it. If there wasn't something of merit in there as complaints go, take no heed.

[1] On that note, I was at a meeting of sorts this week with a number of Irish MEPs (well, 12 of them). Two of them appear to dislike each other so much that they won't look at each other, with body language that screams ardent dislike, even when they're sitting next to each other while addressing a different group or arguing. Now that's a problem of sorts a few divisions higher than someone letting loose a little bit on the Internet. But then I'm certain that they just get on with things (with other people).

DJCR

bluedolphin wrote: »

It's not always a bad thing to not have been involved previously. Sure, knowledge of the 'system' helps but at the same time not being tarred by said system is also an advantage in bringing innovation and new perspectives. If a prerequisite for running for a sabbatical position was to have been a class rep/some other SU position for X number of years while at UL I think there'd be stagnation. Variety is positive, you know. Sure, people who aren't involved from day 1 might not know the constitutional requirements for the sending out agendas for meetings or something, for example, but surely such trivial matters are secondary to what that potential person could offer in the way of innovative policy-making.

True - Kind of expected an answer like that from somebody . Have an outside view, Union needs change etc etc etc (I think we hear it every year at hustings from one or more of the candidates).

But still it is a very valid point.

Dante on Fire

ergonomics wrote: »

Did anyone else see the post from Dante_on_Fire from about an hour ago? Was there any particular reason it was deleted?

yup I've chosen to take it down as it is something i will use in my campaign rather than highlight on a forum.

it did hit at some elements i'll ask questions about at hustings or an e.g.m i think...no point putting it up now

Dante on Fire

ergonomics wrote: »

Well my question regarding why it was deleted was aimed to the OP more than anything. He made some very strong accusations in that post, and put his name to it, but by deleting the post it seems he can't stand behind what he said after all.

like i said previously this will come up in the future and whatever i say i do stand by it doing it on a forum to me seem a little behind the scenes and i'd prefer to deal with the matter face on rather than hitting at a group that have no means to respond

i re-read what i had written and said to myself...why state something like this on a public form when i'm not going to recieve an answer so i'm going to bring thos questions to the people they are related to rather than state it on a public form- i might get a response that way then you will hear all about it

i was worried about what direction this thread would have gone so forgive me for taking it down it was a heat of the moment reaction to a very close to the heart issue that doesn't mean that i don't stand by it i just think it is worth of taking it to the people that can answer it...and i don't think all of them are on boards

ninty9er

bluedolphin wrote: »

Speaking to the previous holder of the office will only put forward his/her interpretation.

Some things aren't open to interpretation...like the number of committees an officer sits on, how many hours a week that takes...the people that you deal with on a day to day basis and how they regard the Union.

To answer Dante's question:
I spoke to Caitriona when the initial nominations closed. I didn't envisage that I would be running before that and I did discuss it with my parents, my friends, my wider family, students in general. I also had to go and have a discussion with the employer I had signed a contract with, where they spent half an hour discouraging me from running, telling me that my job was not going to be deferred for me. That was followed by a half hour phone call from HR. So to say that you need months to make a decision is wrong, but I did take about 3 weeks over it and didn't take the decision lightly.

The reason I didn't run the first time was because I had been told of a candidate that was running that I would have supported. That person didn't submit a nomination, but I didn't know that, because only the Returning Officer knows who has and hasn't. I was also a campaign manager as you pointed out, and I did commit to that previously.

We can argue ifs buts and maybes 'til the cows come home, but it's not going to change the fact that I researched the job before I submitted a nomination form. An integral part of that was speaking to the previous officer about her average week and of what I wanted to do that could and couldn't be done. For example, other candidates had pledged to do something that had been attempted before and actually couldn't be done within the law.

Ms. Education

Dante on Fire wrote: »

it did hit at some elements i'll ask questions about at hustings or an e.g.m i think...no point putting it up now

I've no comment to make with regard to the original post or its contents. However, what I will say is that there is now and has been all year, a forum to question officers on their performance. It is the "Questions for Officers" section on the Class Reps Council agenda. As you are a Class Rep, you know this exists and that you can avail of it at any time, whether or not you will be present at Council. (For those people who are not Class Reps, they can pose questions through their Class Rep.) If the only thing you want from this is an answer to your question, then why wait until the EGM to ask? Council takes place next Tuesday and the deadline for agenda submissions isn't until Thursday. After Thursday, the question can be given to the Chair.

Dante on Fire

Ms. Education wrote: »

I've no comment to make with regard to the original post or its contents. However, what I will say is that there is now and has been all year, a forum to question officers on their performance. It is the "Questions for Officers" section on the Class Reps Council agenda. As you are a Class Rep, you know this exists and that you can avail of it at any time, whether or not you will be present at Council. (For those people who are not Class Reps, they can pose questions through their Class Rep.) If the only thing you want from this is an answer to your question, then why wait until the EGM to ask? Council takes place next Tuesday and the deadline for agenda submissions isn't until Thursday. After Thursday, the question can be given to the Chair.

Your right definatly - i hope there's a council on when i come back

is there another council after this or is this the last council of the semester -we are not back until 30th

do i have to submit questions and agenda submissions the thursday before it?

Ms. Education

Dante on Fire wrote: »

Your right definatly - i hope there's a council on when i come back

is there another council after this or is this the last council of the semester -we are not back until 30th

do i have to submit questions and agenda submissions the thursday before it?

Week 12 (next week) is the last Council before the break. The first Council after the break will be in Week 2.

A "Seen" Question must be submitted to Lucy.Walsh@ul.ie before Thursday. An "Unseen" question can be submitted to the Chair anytime before the meeting starts, but the officer can opt to defer answering until the next Council. An "Unseen Question" can also be asked after officer reports have been given at Council.

Dante on Fire

Ms. Education wrote: »

Week 12 (next week) is the last Council before the break. The first Council after the break will be in Week 2.

A "Seen" Question must be submitted to Lucy.Walsh@ul.ie before Thursday. An "Unseen" question can be submitted to the Chair anytime before the meeting starts, but the officer can opt to defer answering until the next Council. An "Unseen Question" can also be asked after officer reports have been given at Council.

ah pity! i might have to save it till next year