C.T you didn't believe and now accept.

mysterious

I thought I would put forward this thread for everyone. I think this will be an interesting thread. Since September 11th 2001 the whole world has changed forever.( I don't think anyone would deny that) It undergone a massive awakening period. I'm not talking about the actual inside job/our outside job just merely focusing on how it has affected you as consciousness moulds you.

How has this date changed you? What were your beliefs system's about the planet before 9/11 and what change has it on you now in this moment in time. What were the realties you were closed to and now surprisingly opened too e.g what did you conspiracies and secrecies did you not believe and not fully accept. Finally what are the major obstacles and lessons you have personally learned from sept 11th to this point.


I think this is such an important question to bring forward, as we have all been cot in the negative responsses to 9/11, but I'm interested in the positive "after effects" it has done to our reality.

mcmoustache

I was on my way to the Obama/Alien announcement thread when I saw this.

9/11 was a major consiousness-raiser for me. Not just the incident itself but the power grab that came afterwards. I remember the bomber jacket with the megaphone and his "..and they'll be hearing from us very soon". The heroic northern alliance "Freedom Fighters". The mental image of Osama and Omar on a honda 50 heading for the hills. Guantanamo. The ex-unocal employee becoming president somehow. The Patriot act. The sending in of inspectors into Iraq while 300,000 troops amassed in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The orwellian usage of Osama and Saddam in the same sentences despite them being completely unrelated. The coalition of the willing. The awarding of contracts to Halliburton. All the lies about what Saddam could do. Then there was the changing of reasons for war after no WMDs were found - "He was a dictator" etc.

What I took away from all this was that administrations are made up of people with their own self interest at heart - gain wealth and stay in power as long as possible no matter what the cost. I learned never to trust what the leaders say. I learned that politician-speak is an actual language with different meanings to different people. I learned that governments are only as competent as the people in it. Above all, I learned never to trust them and only believe them when you have another source of info. Even if they promise "change you can believe in".

I learned a lot about the media back then too. I always wondered why the mainstream organisations didn't ask this buffoon(Bush in case it wasn't obvious) any tough questions. I remember the 911 commission report not getting much airtime and that Bush was never interviewed without Cheney for it. I learned very quickly that the spread of information and it's censorship were powerful weapons in a war of idealogies.

It was also around that time that I first read 1984. That was many years ago and my adult self has been shaped significantly from the realisation that it's ideas are very much in use today (I copped on later that Orwell's ideas weren't all that original. He just saw what already happened in totalitarian regimes).

I'm pretty wrecked at the moment and I think I may be rambling off-topic so I'll wrap up.

Basically I learned:

Leaders are a bunch of self-serving twats who convince us that they have our interests at heart. They will lie/cheat/steal to stay in power. They are not ever to be trusted.

PS I'll get back to the Obama/Aliens thread tomorrow. I'm too wrecked to articulate anything well right now.

/me goes to AH

Edit: I just saw the title of the thread again and realise I probably answered nothing for you and went on a rant.
Apologies and I'll contribute something more constructive tomorrow.

mysterious

mcmoustache wrote: »

I was on my way to the Obama/Alien announcement thread when I saw this.

9/11 was a major consiousness-raiser for me. Not just the incident itself but the power grab that came afterwards. I remember the bomber jacket with the megaphone and his "..and they'll be hearing from us very soon". The heroic northern alliance "Freedom Fighters". The mental image of Osama and Omar on a honda 50 heading for the hills. Guantanamo. The ex-unocal employee becoming president somehow. The Patriot act. The sending in of inspectors into Iraq while 300,000 troops amassed in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The orwellian usage of Osama and Saddam in the same sentences despite them being completely unrelated. The coalition of the willing. The awarding of contracts to Halliburton. All the lies about what Saddam could do. Then there was the changing of reasons for war after no WMDs were found - "He was a dictator" etc.

What I took away from all this was that administrations are made up of people with their own self interest at heart - gain wealth and stay in power as long as possible no matter what the cost. I learned never to trust what the leaders say. I learned that politician-speak is an actual language with different meanings to different people. I learned that governments are only as competent as the people in it. Above all, I learned never to trust them and only believe them when you have another source of info. Even if they promise "change you can believe in".

I learned a lot about the media back then too. I always wondered why the mainstream organisations didn't ask this buffoon(Bush in case it wasn't obvious) any tough questions. I remember the 911 commission report not getting much airtime and that Bush was never interviewed without Cheney for it. I learned very quickly that the spread of information and it's censorship were powerful weapons in a war of idealogies.

It was also around that time that I first read 1984. That was many years ago and my adult self has been shaped significantly from the realisation that it's ideas are very much in use today (I copped on later that Orwell's ideas weren't all that original. He just saw what already happened in totalitarian regimes).

I'm pretty wrecked at the moment and I think I may be rambling off-topic so I'll wrap up.

Basically I learned:

Leaders are a bunch of self-serving twats who convince us that they have our interests at heart. They will lie/cheat/steal to stay in power. They are not ever to be trusted.

PS I'll get back to the Obama/Aliens thread tomorrow. I'm too wrecked to articulate anything well right now.

/me goes to AH

Edit: I just saw the title of the thread again and realise I probably answered nothing for you and went on a rant.
Apologies and I'll contribute something more constructive tomorrow.

No I enjoyed reading it. Infact I loved it! You don't need to answer to me or anyone. I raised the question and wanted to post a thread to get people talking on the whole events from That day to this and what we have learnt. Where we are at since september 11th now. The world has changed so much with so many people now discussing C.Ts. I found what you said very interesting.

koHd

The Conspiracy Theory I believe I now believe that I didn't before 9/11:

That conspiracy theories are really powerful and can turn fiction into fact really fast with the power of the internet.

I don't want to get into the whole inside job thing. I don't believe it.

Although I do believe Bush used 9/11 to his advantage and he was ultimately a poor leader that probably had a team of people behind him that weren't big fans of the term "every life is precious".

Penn

I'd agree with that. I don't think 9/11 was an inside job, but I think there were more likely a few mistakes covered up, and that the US Government then used 9/11 to their advantage

6th

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I'd agree with that. I don't think 9/11 was an inside job, but I think there were more likely a few mistakes covered up, and that the US Government then used 9/11 to their advantage

I'd be in this boat too. US Government didnt do it but good lord they made the most of it!

nullzero

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I'd agree with that. I don't think 9/11 was an inside job, but I think there were more likely a few mistakes covered up, and that the US Government then used 9/11 to their advantage

Very much the prevailing view and there is a lot of common sense guiding it.
However the 9-11 commssion report hardly answers all questions in regard to the attacks, and given the shady nature of another high profile report from the Warren commission regarding the JFK assassination there has been a history of shady goings on and half thruths in these kind of issues over the years.
Conspiracy theories in my opinion go by the old saying of theres no smoke without fire. It's just a case of figuring out where the fire is burning and how extensive it is.
Conspiracy theories are just that, theories and are a valuable addition to public opinion as it allows the people to be able to examine things rationally in a intellectual process of elimination which ultimatley leads to the truth, or more often the version of events which the individual is most comfortable with.

mcmoustache

Edit: The post was only slightly related to the OP's question and when I edited out the offtopic parts, all that was left might have made the natives restless(see charter). It had to go. I might post it on AH someday or shoehorn its best bits into other threads ;o). Goodnight

6th

You obviously put along of effort into that post but what has it got to do with the topic at hand? C.T you didn't believe and now accept.

I'll probably delete of heavily edit your post in the morning to remove the bits which could be seen as trolling/baiting. If you do it in the meantime yourself I'll probably be less cranky.

bonkey

While its not quite what the thread title is about, I recall a thread I started earlier this year about the mainstream media successfully covering up the kidnapping of a journo for quite some time.

Its not that I didn't believe the media were above such things, but rather I was quite surprised at how easy they admitted it to being for mainstream media - in effect saying that there's an "old boys network" where such things can be (and are) quite readily accepted.

In that sense, it wasn't so much a conspiracy that I now believe in, but rather that an admission of conspiracy has led me to reconsider the degree and difficulty of collusion in the mainstream.

I was also quite surprised that they listed wikipedia as perhaps the toughest place to keep a lid on things. I'm surprised, in the sense that wikipedia tends to be (unfairly, imho) dismissed by everyone as a source with any sort of utility or credibility.

Diogenes

bonkey wrote: »

While its not quite what the thread title is about, I recall a thread I started earlier this year about the mainstream media successfully covering up the kidnapping of a journo for quite some time.

Its not that I didn't believe the media were above such things, but rather I was quite surprised at how easy they admitted it to being for mainstream media - in effect saying that there's an "old boys network" where such things can be (and are) quite readily accepted.

In that sense, it wasn't so much a conspiracy that I now believe in, but rather that an admission of conspiracy has led me to reconsider the degree and difficulty of collusion in the mainstream.

I was also quite surprised that they listed wikipedia as perhaps the toughest place to keep a lid on things. I'm surprised, in the sense that wikipedia tends to be (unfairly, imho) dismissed by everyone as a source with any sort of utility or credibility.

You'd be surprised. The Home Office occasionally issues a "D" order insisting newspapers and press organisations spike a story temporarily.

One example that I personally witnessed was a few years ago a D order was issued over a UK group of tourists hiking in a remote region Ethiopia. It came apparent that one of the group was the wife of a very senior British diplomat in the region.

The Newspapers/Media were in a position, they could ignore the D order publish this information, which could lead to an increase in demands by the terrorists, which perhaps could not be met, and jeopardise negotiations.

Or they could sit on the information. While the kidnapping of a diplomats partner could lead to a interesting angle on the story, the cost in human life could be significant.

Another example is Prince Harry in Afghanistan. Again the press were taken in and told you can run with this story while he is serving his tour, but if you do you run the risk of painting a huge target on his entire unit. So instead please hold off, until his tour is finished. Unsurprisingly the only newssite to breach the embargo was Matt Drudge. Afterwards since it was in the public domain everyone ran with it.

Essentially Journalists and Editors are asked to sit on a story for a while, because if they run with the story at present, they risk jeopardising lives. Thats an immense burden, and most if not all will temporarily hold off unless they feel it's in the greater public interest to do so.

mysterious

koHd wrote: »

The Conspiracy Theory I believe I now believe that I didn't before 9/11:



I don't want to get into the whole inside job thing. I don't believe it.

Although I do believe Bush used 9/11 to his advantage and he was ultimately a poor leader that probably had a team of people behind him that weren't big fans of the term "every life is precious".

I would like to rephrase or clear the idealogy of "poor leader"

George Bush wasn't poor. He just did what he was meant to do. Infact he was a great leader for the banking and elite system. He done all his assignments. People view him as poor, because people have this fantasised notion that our leaders have our best interests at heart. lol. He'd be poor if he let the system down. The American president runs coporate America. Bush is fricken loved with the high ranking banking ruling elites.


Bush didn't use 9/11 to his advantage, he doesnt call the shots. He just the middle public man between the secret government and the people. His job that day was to sit in a classroom though. That was accomplished. Again I don't think thats poor, I see that as someone who plays his piece well.

That conspiracy theories are really powerful and can turn fiction into fact really fast with the power of the internet.

:rolleyes:


So rather than making assumptions could you give an example. ? ? like from this point till back to September 11th 2001. It's ironic that you now blame the internet. I find this terminology ridicoulous because it's like another way to take a shot a C.Ts personally. I would seriously like to see an example where people have this urge to make up fiction into fact. It's quite a claim.

bonkey

Lets not turn this into a discussion on 911, thanks.

Penn

mysterious wrote: »

I would like to rephrase or clear the idealogy of "poor leader"

George Bush wasn't poor. He just did what he was meant to do. Infact he was a great leader for the banking and elite system. He done all his assignments. People view him as poor, because people have this fantasised notion that our leaders have our best interests at heart. lol. He'd be poor if he let the system down. The American president runs coporate America. Bush is fricken loved with the high ranking banking ruling elites.


Bush didn't use 9/11 to his advantage, he doesnt call the shots. He just the middle public man between the secret government and the people. His job that day was to sit in a classroom though. That was accomplished. Again I don't think thats poor, I see that as someone who plays his piece well.


:rolleyes:


So rather than making assumptions could you give an example. ? ? like from this point till back to September 11th 2001. It's ironic that you now blame the internet. I find this terminology ridicoulous because it's like another way to take a shot a C.Ts personally. I would seriously like to see an example where people have this urge to make up fiction into fact. It's quite a claim.

You asked us for our opinions mysterious and we gave them. There are a hell of a lot of your opinions that I certainly don't agree with, but you have the right to express them when asked without being patronised. As Bonkey said, this isn't a discussion about 9/11, this is a discussion, which you started, asking what CTs we might believe in.

mysterious

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

You asked us for our opinions mysterious and we gave them. There are a hell of a lot of your opinions that I certainly don't agree with, but you have the right to express them when asked without being patronised. As Bonkey said, this isn't a discussion about 9/11, this is a discussion, which you started, asking what CTs we might believe in.

That's very Ironic. You actually didn't mention anything BUT 9/11 and defended your point that it was not an inside job. You said that nobody else. Let's actually look at the facts and what's wss actually said of the matter. I've never stopped anyone from having an opinion. I opened a thread with my views and I merely corrected a point someone made that I feel was in error of judgment. I also made myself clear on my points in the opening post. If you dissagree with my opinions feel free to argue it. We are adults. If you don't like them that's ok. I can handle lots of topics been faced and discussed from all angles. Just because you dissagree with doesn't mean people are to be quiet. Mnay people are driven away from this forum from replies like you've given. I get countless emails stating that so many C.Theorists are ridiculed and made silent.

The other thing I wanted to point out, this thread, is about C.Ts you believe and how they have changed you with regards to the whole 9/11 Awakening. I've never said anything about 9/11 been an inside job. But So what if I did. Can we not be adults here and just allow ourselves to face reality for what it is and dicuss these things on a Conspiracy theory forum.? It's coming to the end of 2009 and we are on a C.T forum, C.Ts should be allowed express their beliefs and research on a C.Ts without having to be on the constant nanny alarm all the time. We are adults not children. You are a skepitc on almost everything on thsese topics. that's fine too. But If you don't like them there is a skeptic forum available for you choosen beliefs, you are free to express your opionions and no one is stopping you. But this is a C.T forum and C.Ts are allowed to let their hair down on thier choosen interest's. Many people conflict with C.Ts because they look to alternatives sources.

We the people do not we just retain everything we are told. Rather than trying to focus the attention on me Paddy. Maybe you could give examples of C.Ts that you didn't believe from that date to now?

My conclusion to this whole thread, it has been interesting. It is something I want to shed awareness on in having some reflection to the past 8 years about C.Ts without having go on the nanny alarm about people's opinions. It's always better to look at things from a hindsight angle and allow yourself too see it for what it is. The truth is most people will eventually come to the same truth and what actually did happen. The onlly thing that wil stop that is the denial to face reality. Reflection is a very good trait to have.

I'm a big believer in facing all your demons.


To give something to talk about on this awakening I will share this angle. 9/11 it seems like it's a C.T but I've posted this thread, and we all are more focused on been right without looking at what really did happen in reality that day to this. 8 years and we still fight over the truth.


That is why I brought this thread up, we are not getting it. I wanted people to reflect on thier belief's and thoughts to this time. I know the answers but I'm not going to explain this here. I may do on another thread.

Penn

mysterious wrote: »

We the people do not we just retain everything we are told. Rather than trying to focus the attention on me Paddy. Maybe you could give examples of C.Ts that you didn't believe from that date to now?

I did. I believe there has been a conspiracy to cover up some of the mistakes made in the September 11 attacks. I elaborated on my point by saying that I didn't believe it was an inside job.

Although its not like I've always believed this. At first, I didn't think there was a conspiracy at all. Then I watched Loose Change and I believed it. I believed pretty much everything it said. Then I did my own research which led me to my current opinion. This is the biggest CT that I believe, and to be honest, pretty much the only one. Which is why it was the only one I mentioned in my post. You asked. I answered.

And by the way, I don't want to argue with you over your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But trust me, if you state something that I don't agree with as FACT, I will argue it

mysterious

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I did. I believe there has been a conspiracy to cover up some of the mistakes made in the September 11 attacks. I elaborated on my point by saying that I didn't believe it was an inside job.

Although its not like I've always believed this. At first, I didn't think there was a conspiracy at all. Then I watched Loose Change and I believed it. I believed pretty much everything it said. Then I did my own research which led me to my current opinion. This is the biggest CT that I believe, and to be honest, pretty much the only one. Which is why it was the only one I mentioned in my post. You asked. I answered.

And by the way, I don't want to argue with you over your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But trust me, if you state something that I don't agree with as FACT, I will argue it

So why did they cover it up. This is important when you look back over 8 years. Why. It's not the fact "they did cover it up"

Why did they cover it up.


The elites september 11th 2001 moved there piece. We for 8 years have been going up and down the chess board like pawns.

Penn

mysterious wrote: »

So why did they cover it up. This is important when you look back over 8 years. Why. It's not the fact "they did cover it up"

Why did they cover it up.


The elites september 11th 2001 moved there piece. We for 8 years have been going up and down the chess board like pawns.

Like I said, I don't think it was an inside job, but I believe some people may have made mistakes which were covered up in order to avoid blame and criticism. I'm not saying what I believe they did was right, but its a lot better than some of the things they've been accused of by CTers.

Look, you asked what theories people didn't believe, and now accept. I've given my answer.

IrelandSpirit

"C.T you didn't believe and now accept." Good topic. It's a bit like like asking where did it all begin...

I suppose I had my first personal 'awakening' to CT back in the early 80s; many events happened back then too which were near total impossibilities within the beliefs of my peers - but whatever we believe, a serious pitfall when delving into any CT is the tendency to polarise issues - them and us, good and bad, etc, when in fact all we're doing is stringing along a narrative that makes sense to us. Ultimately it is a personal narrative. It is subjective. And very often the information we use to create our narratives is parcelled out to us, piecemeal, and then steered.

Before Alex Jones et al we probably had (and still do) a different take on the 'agenda', at its root. World domination? No doubt at some levels, it would be naive to think not, given our species' history for the last 5,000 years or so, but how does that affect our spiritual growth and maturity? Are we becoming more compassionate, more loving human beings by playing along with these narratives, or does it only serve to make us act from a position of fear:

'They' are 'bad', we are the good guys, 'they' want to do this and that to us, and so on.

Yes some do, and these people are not well - a very small percentage, perhaps around 5% of the world's population are psychopaths, quite literally in the definition of the term. They are incapable of empathy, and appear to be in a better position to climb higher up the proverbial ladder because they are ruthless, they don't care who they step on and do whatever is necessary to achieve their goals.

And to what extent am I helping further their goals though; to what extent are we all helping them? What is our personal narrative, how has it shifted and evolved since 911 or whenever we chose to say our 'awakening' happened.

In short, we know who 'they' are, from the Bushes of this world to the scumbag who brown-nosed you out of your promotion at work - but who are we?

I think these are the type of questions we should be asking ourselves. I feel an 'awakening' is an on-going process, fractal, it's not a closed system. In the larger scheme of things, and at root, perhaps we are all only as good as our hearts, and as stupid as our heads.

Undergod

I accept the existence of some conspiracies in the past.

Watergate happened, that was a conspiracy. The US military did illegaly enter Laos in the Vietnam War, that was covered up. On the basis of that, I'd imagine that conspiracies are quite common, but not on the massive scale people seem to be fond of.

IrelandSpirit

Example of CT now accepted, or at least readily admitted to by official sources:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4398507,00.html

Millions of civilians subjected to germ warfare experiments between 1940 and 1979, and which is still 'ongoing research' according to Sue Ellison, spokeswoman for Porton Down.

Undergod

Oh, also MK ULTRA.

IrelandSpirit

Yep, also:

"Federal government publishes confession;
1995 report to Clinton documents 30 years of radiation experiments... the report cites thousands of cases where American adults and American children were given non-theraputic doses of radioactive substances without their knowledge or consent"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_radiation_experiments

mysterious

I would like to hear more skeptics here admit to some C.Ts that they personally now accept. You don't have to defend your case, just whatever C.T you now feel in your opinion is more validated then before. Most skeptics imo will never give a defenate answer because they want a Leader or a member of the science field to come out clean with it. But eh thats Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever gonna happen.


I believe in most of the planets are habited in our solar system. I believe it because Nasa altered all the pictures of what we see.

Penn

mysterious wrote: »

I would like to hear more skeptics here admit to some C.Ts that they personally now accept. You don't have to defend your case, just whatever C.T you now feel in your opinion is more validated then before. Most skeptics imo will never give a defenate answer because they want a Leader or a member of the science field to come out clean with it. But eh thats Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever gonna happen.

:rolleyes:

livininsHELL

The idea of gangstalking,now a firm believer.