2010 Pre-Orders Up.

Saab Ed

Much as I find this hard to believe myself our orders for the new year compared to the same time last year are up. And not only that but we were just saying between ourselves earlier that showroom footfall has been semi brisk over the last 2- 3 weeks. Although there is alot of talk about people holding on to see what the budget brings so this might just knock some of thoses potential sales on the head. All in all though we expect to be up on last January. Demand for used has been strong ( 03-06 cars) up until very recently and now it seems real bargain hunters are coming out of the woodwork looking for demos and 09's. My own gut feeling is that although the goverment might still be diddering on what to do , most of the car business ( if they are still here ) and the punters have already made the big adjustment and have moved on. I think we've passed a turning point. What do others think?

GERMAN ROCKS

also people who might want a new car in 09 would have waited till 10 just to get that 10 plate. well thats what my folks are doing anyway

R.O.R

I'd love to share your happy outlook on things Ed, but everything I've heard from dealer's I've been talking to is saying otherwise. Still a lot of very, very worried people out there.

From my own point of view, I had 18 orders before the start of November 2008 for 09 deliveries. I've 10 on order now, with another couple pending after some manufacturer's confirm discount structure.

Last November there were 41 cars ordered for 2009 delivery. Somehow I can't see that happening this year.

But, er, at least it's Tuesday eh?

Saab Ed

Our sales just collapsed last January so I suppose anything is upwards. We also used to sell alot of vans and that just dissapered and hasnt come back at all. Im still optimistic though....:D

Henry Ford III

All credit to optimism, but come on now.....

Saab Ed

Check out the used guys for a real feel of what's going on . Also there's plenty of commercial second hand imports coming in and by that I mean the bigger stuff. The big stuff is always a sign of something happening, you just gotta follow the curve. The top end is always last to to re-act. Now Im not saying that any fortune will be made next year, im just saying that IMO I think we've turned a corner.

Henry Ford III

I hope you are right, but fear much much worse is to come.

Gumbo

i would love to be ordering a 2010 VW Golf GTi.......:D
umm, where did i see that 0% finance on 2010 cars ad.........

hopefully your right about the turn around!

-Chris-

I don't have a single new car on order for 2010.

I think 2010 will be better than 2009, but I've always been an optomist :D

Big Nasty

Hope you're right Ed but I haven't heard too much enthusiasm so far. Used sales getting pretty stagnant with the run up to Christmas and very few new orders will come in before the budget so it's kind of at its worst for the whole year right now. Please God better news is on its way!

For the guys who've been smart enough to make it through this year by the skin of their teeth the ones I really feel sorry for are the small time brands that are just going nowhere lately, be it new or used.

junkyard

I can't honestly see any pick-up and anyone I've spoken to don't seem to be positive either. Apparently the government are bringing back the scrappage scheme but scrapping the cheap road tax on environmentally friendly cars. This will knock a lot of sales from where I see it and the scrappage scheme is too little too late. The big problem is finance, the banks aren't loaning and the credit unions are the next bunch to hit the fan, they've been lying low for a while but they're owed a fortune and didn't want to admit they were in trouble. Lets face it, cash buyers are thin on the ground and if nobodys loaning who's going to be buying? Sorry for the reality check but I wouldn't be banking on sales until I have the money in the bank and by money I mean cash.

buzzard

I am looking to purchase a new car for 2010 with a budget of €40k but from numberous visits to garages the quality of some sales staff is just appalling.

Only last week I went to one garage and the sales person showed no interest in me at all. He just gave the price, never asked if I wanted any additional extras and even had to ask his colleague the cost of metallic paint. He finished the conversation by saying he would contact me on Tuesday despite the fact that he never took my number or name.:eek:

On other occassions I got quotes but out of 3 garages only 1 has followed up on the quote and the other 2 haven't even responded to my emails.

I have narrowed my choice down to two models and have no intention in wasting my time with someone who is showing no interest in completing the sale

junkyard

If your buying straight they'll take your hand off but if your trading they don't want to know because nobody will buy your trade in.

buzzard

Yep, have a trade-in but that doesn't excuse the un-professionalism of some of the sales people I have met.

If garages are waiting around for punters with no trade-in they might as well shut up shop now

Saab Ed

Guys , just like in 2006 ( when all of this really started to unwind ) when every taxi man in the country was telling you to buy appartments in Turkey/Castleknock/Bulgaria ( advice given in an inner city accent but with all the words pronuced with every T perfect ) now the entire country is talking about the worst is yet to come. Ignore the public sector and the government. Sure they hadnt a clue on the way up , re-acted at the wrong time with the wrong things ( truth be told probably paid themselves the best relative rates of anybody in the land at the time ) and are still lumbering along in no mans land. The money and the people move on way before what Davey stock brokers are predicting ( or as I like to call it , commenting on what happened 6 months ago ) and what the govenment are doing about it. The truth is the powers that be will end up re-acting to the first move by the punters and the workforce which in my opinion is already on the move. Hence my optimistic out look. People do what they have to do , go to the doctor, buy food in asda Tesco and buy cars

junkyard

Good luck with that theory Saab Ed...........;)

Saab Ed

This time next year we're gonna be millionares....



PS Stolen from another thread but here's the proof.... Things are on the up they say....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8341485.stm

junkyard

That's the UK though, loads of work there again but the clowns running this place are still dragging their heel two years later and the only ones their helping are the banks. Instead of upping taxes they should be cutting them to stimulate what's left of the economy.

Bif

I spoke to two main dealers and expressed a strong internest in buying a 2010 reg straight. Both took my numbers ...have either called back? have they f***...more than a week later and with a repeat call to one...niether have called back...opinions please? BTW I was most pleasant to both and explained I would trade or buy straight...

Scruff

junkyard wrote: »

Apparently the government are bringing back the scrappage scheme but scrapping the cheap road tax on environmentally friendly cars.

I'd be surprised if the greens let that through. They are all for incentives to promote lower emissions. Polluter pays, carbon tax and all that.

TheBigEvil

Scruff wrote: »

I'd be surprised if the greens let that through. They are all for incentives to promote lower emissions. Polluter pays, carbon tax and all that.

Yea, It will be interesting to see how they apply the carbon tax to petrol/diesel. Especially diesel, which is now becoming the car of choice. Was in a ford dealer the other day, and he said Ford are dropping the petrol models here in the the focus. Everyone is buying diesel (if buying at all).

Considering that newer diesel cars are now more efficient, and producing less Co2, I still expect the greens to slap on a 10/11c a litre on diesel and balance it by saying they are getting rid of the differential between it and petrol.

Carbon tax me arse!

roosterman71

The couple of dealers I spoke to are doing OK in the 2nd hand market, but crap in new car sales. They expect it to continue into next year.

Yea, It will be interesting to see how they apply the carbon tax to petrol/diesel. Especially diesel, which is now becoming the car of choice. Was in a ford dealer the other day, and he said Ford are dropping the petrol models here in the the focus. Everyone is buying diesel (if buying at all).

Considering that newer diesel cars are now more efficient, and producing less Co2, I still expect the greens to slap on a 10/11c a litre on diesel and balance it by saying they are getting rid of the differential between it and petrol.

Carbon tax me arse!

This is a little off topic, but is it NO2 that's a serious cancer causing agent? Expect a tax on that at sometime too. This will screw diesels in the same way CO2 taxes screwed petrol.

smash

I'm only going by your username, but if you work for Saab then surely it's easy to get your new car orders up from 0!

Saab Ed

steve06 wrote: »

I'm only going by your username, but if you work for Saab then surely it's easy to get your new car orders up from 0!

Did you ever see a Saab van!!!!

( Re 4th Post )

PS: Got another new one away today....Maybe its just me who's fantastic !!!!!

Berty

God damn this thread and the replies.

Damn you Saab Ed for even thinking there could be a tail off in the recession and the doom and gloom of the past year. Damn you straight to hell.

In my industry(foodservice) the market has certainly picked back up. NO its not the same as it was 4 years ago but its certainly better than any other month of the year so far.

Best of luck Saab Ed if you are getting more footfall and enquiries. The true salesman will be able to turn these leads into sales.

The rest will simply put you down for even thinking that you can sell cars. Long gone are the days when a car will sell itself. Long gone are the days when you can trawl carzone.ie, buy from private sellers, throw a bit of wax on the car and sell it for profit.

You have to try harder and you appreciate that but don't tell anybody because they will only assume you are overly optimistic naive.

knifey_spoonie

You are right there has been increased interest in new cars.

My opinion on it is people who were going to buy in Jan. 2008 decided to hold off until july 2008, then alot decided that they would wait untill 2009 as no point in reging that late in the year. Then 2009 came along and they just couldnt buy a new car, there was almost a stigma attached to having an 09 reg. Now in 2010 they will feel a change is due, the car has done its job and they have gotten their value out of it.

Out of interest i presume most of your orders are straight sales, my biggest worry is other manufacturers, if they drop 10% off retail the 2 year old has just droped at least 5%.How do you factor that into a deal,

Saab Ed

Berty wrote: »

In my industry(foodservice) the market has certainly picked back up. NO its not the same as it was 4 years ago but its certainly better than any other month of the year so far.


You have to try harder and you appreciate that but don't tell anybody because they will only assume you are overly optimistic naive.

Well I think you just hit the nail on the head. And the thing is the sooner people start to realise that 4 years ago was just fantasy and not the real world at all the better. Now , here , today is the start of the real world and with any kinda luck some sort of normality will return in about 3 years , not boom time normality but real world normality. Real savvy bargain hunters are getting a bargain right now, not the ones sitting and waiting telling you the worst is still to come. Once that lot start to move the game will have moved on but then again thats the mob.....

Berty

Well I was told by a dealer today

"If you want a quote then ask your company to ask for it"

OH FVCK OFF!

A VW Salesman called me today to tell me he had the new retail prices. I said "whats the best price on the comfortline and highline passat?"

"I dont know yet because we have not been given our margins or our extra's yet. So would you like the retail prices?"
"Why, Im not going to pay you anywhere near retail"
"Okay I will call you Friday when I have the figures"

Seriously, why the hell did he call me so unless there are still dealers who think people will say "oh I see VW have dropped their price on the Passat by €1,000 gimme gimme gimme one now at full retail"

-Chris-

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Out of interest i presume most of your orders are straight sales, my biggest worry is other manufacturers, if they drop 10% off retail the 2 year old has just droped at least 5%.How do you factor that into a deal,

Nothing complicated to that one - if the trade-in has dropped in value due to the drop in price of the new car, then you drop the price of the trade-in!

It doesn't matter what a car was worth, you have to price it at what you think it'll be worth next month (to give you time to sell it).
I think a lot of dealers have gotten themselves into trouble recently by paying what the customer thought the car was worth, or what the car used to be worth, rather than what the car will be worth.

Saab Ed

Yup ....Order takers up till now. I love a good aul recesession to tell you the truth, sorts the boys from the men. This is the type of crap that we built ourselves up on over the last decade, now Pillocks like that might actualy have to do a bit of work

-Chris-

Berty wrote: »

Well I was told by a dealer today

"If you want a quote then ask your company to ask for it"

Salesman's rule number one: Always make sure you're talking to the decision maker

Berty wrote: »

Seriously, why the hell did he call me so unless there are still dealers who think people will say "oh I see VW have dropped their price on the Passat by €1,000 gimme gimme gimme one now at full retail"

TBH, in his position I'd have called you too, if only to say "hello, I have some info, but I'll call you back with more when I have it". Odds are you went to two or more garages, and if only one calls you back to say "here's the latest news to tide you over until the full information is available" then that's the one that you'll trust - you'll be bitching about the others for not calling you...



Just to give a bit of balance... :D

Berty

-Chris- wrote: »

Salesman's rule number one: Always make sure you're talking to the decision maker

Lost him business though didn't it. I am the decision maker mostly, I pick the cars I would like and present my request to the company. If I didn't decide on a VRs then I would not be sitting in front of him.

He was more interested in dealing with another guy who walked in the door behind me, no doubt was in before and ripe for a deposit.

Well, " a bird in the hand and all that "

-Chris-

Fair comment, you can throw all the rules out the window if they're losing you sales!

"Everyone's a buyer" as my old boss used to say.

knifey_spoonie

-Chris- wrote: »

Nothing complicated to that one - if the trade-in has dropped in value due to the drop in price of the new car, then you drop the price of the trade-in!

No my problem is with the amount of uncontrolable variables that are still there at the moment.My problem is in all honesty knowbody out there truley knows the value of any used car come jan 2010.You can have an educated guess all you want but all its takes if for one price reduction and you have lost €1000, just my opinion, but i think there are still too many unknowns out there, and people are rusing into deals as they havnt sold a new car in 4 months.

Gumbo

-Chris- wrote: »

Salesman's rule number one: Always make sure you're talking to the decision maker




TBH, in his position I'd have called you too, if only to say "hello, I have some info, but I'll call you back with more when I have it". Odds are you went to two or more garages, and if only one calls you back to say "here's the latest news to tide you over until the full information is available" then that's the one that you'll trust - you'll be bitching about the others for not calling you...



Just to give a bit of balance... :D

2 months ago i went to Frank Keanes to look at an 06 320d M-Sport and it was just sold that day. the salesman took my details and said he would call the minute another became available. i told him not to waste his time ringing me with anythin other than 06 or 07 318d or 320d and they had to be M-Sport (girlfriends requests )

well last week he rang me to say he will have one in this week and was just giving me notice that it was coming, and last night he rang to say its in the show room ready to be view so were going over Sat to look at it.

if she likes it i will have no problem buying from this guy as he made an effort and kept up in the loop, although the price has to be right too :P

anyway, just backing up your point there Chris!

Mr.Boots

To the lads in the trade.....
Is the lack of finance being made available by the banks not bolloking it for you or is the situation inproving?
Someone mentioned to me before that they wernt lending on anything over 3 years old.

Oh, and good luck to all still working in the business, hope it picks up for ya.

TomMc

According to my local paper Ford have 5 million worth of credit to give out for anyone looking to buy in the coming week or so for 2010. Only 200 cars worth but its a start.

Berty

The Subaru dealer told me that Subaru only got 50 cars to sell for Ireland in 2008 and 70 in 2009. Last week, he said, the MD of Subaru Ireland was in Japan trying to get their numbers increased to 200 per annum.

How much truth is in that. You could read into it: You need to order a car now because there are only a few going to be offered for sale.

Or you can read into it: The Japanese do not feel like we are big fish in the motoring industry when our Subaru dealerships are tiny and not big sellers and most of our Subaru's on the roads were imported second hand from Japan anyway.

Also, Subaru are not releasing their 2010 new model pricing until the 1st or 2nd week in December for 2010 orders. Well, sorry guys but that is too late for most people so best of luck with 2010 deliveries in Jan.

Drummerboy08

Berty wrote: »

Lost him business though didn't it. I am the decision maker mostly, I pick the cars I would like and present my request to the company. If I didn't decide on a VRs then I would not be sitting in front of him.

Do you sign the cheques? Will you be authorising the payment of the car? If no to them, them your not the decision maker. Your simply the driver picking out his car, and getting pricing - something 90% of company car drivers do themselves.

TomMc

Berty wrote: »

The Subaru dealer told me that Subaru only got 50 cars to sell for Ireland in 2008 and 70 in 2009. Last week, he said, the MD of Subaru Ireland was in Japan trying to get their numbers increased to 200 per annum.

How much truth is in that. You could read into it: You need to order a car now because there are only a few going to be offered for sale.

Or you can read into it: The Japanese do not feel like we are big fish in the motoring industry when our Subaru dealerships are tiny and not big sellers and most of our Subaru's on the roads were imported second hand from Japan anyway.

Also, Subaru are not releasing their 2010 new model pricing until the 1st or 2nd week in December for 2010 orders. Well, sorry guys but that is too late for most people so best of luck with 2010 deliveries in Jan.

Since the manufacturers have to provide cars to Irish distributors at a lower pre-tax price relative to many other parts of Europe, numbers can be limited compared with other markets. We do not have a big population either. At the end of the day if previous years sales were low, why would they suddenly provide an unlimited supply. They manufacture so many cars and engines and have to work within that output.

And in their defense it is kind of hard to plan for 2010 with a budget imminent. The last one really drove another nail in the motor trades coffin, so once bitten twice shy. Ultimately new car prices are strongly influenced by supply & demand, with margins tightened in tougher times in order to attract sales.

And where car salespeople are concerned as D'Boy says if you do not sign the cheques, most assume you are something of a dreamer and apportion their time and efforts accordingly. In fact when I was buying my Subaru and paying cash (in a buoyant market), the salesman at the largest dealer in Dublin didn't even get back to me with any costings (probably because I look a lot younger than my years and assumed it wasn't worth his while). I got the principal of the next dealership, he gave me the cost to change figure on the spot, I beat him down a little and we did the deal there and then. No messing. But then again guys in the business for years and years, know not to judge a book by its cover and treat everyone as a potential sale. Many of the younger ones who were glorified order takers in the boom, haven't the experience to know better.

galwaytt

fwiw, the company I work for has a motor-related business as well (commercial's) and we have had orders cancelled during the year for vehicles, solely because the client(s) could not get finance.

No shortage of people (at the right price of course), no shortage of stock (!), no big leadtimes at the moment........but banks have completely shutdown - even to big operators (one of our clients runs 130+ of our units....)

Not good.

Budget ? Emission-based tax will, say.......double ? The Greens ? (I don't think they'll get asked, actually........)

Oh, and Carbon Tax - complete and utter con-job. For a start, you'll all be moving to Aldi/Lidl, 'cos the first thing to go up will be............food. It doesn't arrive on the shelves by using one of these: http://technologizer.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/390955750_6c78eb96dd.jpg

junkyard

Sales people generally can tell the organ grinder from the monkey when it comes to sales, I know I can anyway. (sorry Berty:o)