Pat Kenny - The Frontline or is it the Irish Times

Milstream

Just put on the frontline and guess what Fintan O' Toole is on again. what is the story with this guy he is on everything these days.

Victor_M

Milstream wrote: »

Just put on the frontline and guess what Fintan O' Toole is on again. what is the story with this guy he is on everything these days.

Not too sure, more flabergasted by that mumbling sttttutering wanker Jack O'Connor and his ludicris attempts to avoid answering Pat's questions and justifying that hilarious 10 point plan!

omahaid

Thought Pat was going to cry over Jacks comment on his trophy house :D

efb

Oooh Jack pi$$ed off Pat there with his glib remark!
He's frigged now!

Leslie91

F me did ya see Pat's reaction to the Union lad about his house. Wow he almost lost it. Where was that passion on the Late Late!?.

Milstream

ye that jack o conner is talking nothin but bull.cant even answer a straight forward question.

Pat Kenny - pay cuts jack,reduce pay jack,

Jack O Connor - em em em pat 10 point plan, wealthy people contibute,

Pat Kenny - 3 times asking same question

Jack O Connor - different mechanisms em em em 10 point plan, wont except cuts

PURE GOB****E

Flimbos

Holy crap, PK was wasted on the LLS.

"I built my house in 1988, I don't want to hear that kind of crap".

:eek:

omahaid

Haha, even the audience agree he said that the unions wont accept pay cuts this is a lot better than the LLS

Kristopherus

O'Connor is the best of them IMO. I dont hear Pat the Plank offering to take a pay cut, W***ker. Thought he'd hit O'Conner for telling him the truth. What else is that house on the hill, but a trophy house :D:D

omahaid

Kristopherus wrote: »

Thought he'd hit O'Conner for telling him the truth.

I would take a pay cut if he had done that

efb

O'Connor didn't tell the truth, he made a glib, cheap remark.

mike65

O'Conner simply exposed himself (yet again) as a tatty socialist class warrior.

omahaid

It was uncalled for, but was it wrong?

Victor_M

Kristopherus wrote: »

O'Connor is the best of them IMO. I dont hear Pat the Plank offering to take a pay cut, W***ker. Thought he'd hit O'Conner for telling him the truth. What else is that house on the hill, but a trophy house :D:D

Oh I didn't realise Jack O'Connor has offered to take a pay cut! How much is that gob****e earning?

hairy cake

Victor_M wrote: »

Oh I didn't realise Jack O'Connor has offered to take a pay cut! How much is that gob****e earning?

How does someone as inarticulate and un-personable get to his position??

tech77

Flimbos wrote: »

Holy crap, PK was wasted on the LLS.

"I built my house in 1988, I don't want to hear that kind of crap".

:eek:

Loved it.
Never saw Kenny so animated.

Noam Chomsky is a breath of fresh air after that btw.
Could listen to him all night.

deisemum

mike65 wrote: »

O'Conner simply exposed himself (yet again) as a tatty socialist class warrior.

He came across as a right tool, then lied and denied saying something but the audience didn't let him get away with lying.

If I was paying into his union I'd be disgusted that that's the best calibre to represent me and at a cost of €125,000 and then not able to string together a coherent sentance, just mumble em em em.

That was a very cheap comment he made about Pat's house but it was entertaining.

segaBOY

deisemum wrote: »

He came across as a right tool, then lied and denied saying something but the audience didn't let him get away with lying.

If I was paying into his union I'd be disgusted that that's the best calibre to represent me and at a cost of €125,000 and then not able to string together a coherent sentance, just mumble em em em.

That was a very cheap comment he made about Pat's house but it was entertaining.

Usual trade union clap trap. Glad to see that the public aren't fooled.

Meeja Ireland

hairy cake wrote: »

How does someone as inarticulate and un-personable get to his position??

Its shocking, isn't it? I suppose the answer is that most people are unwilling to get involved in union activity. At the entry level it is time-consuming and unpaid, and people shy away from it. I guess the bosses are drawn from the few people who make it to the meetings.

Jip

hairy cake wrote: »

How does someone as inarticulate and un-personable get to his position??

I thought everyone would know this by now, it's the beard, unions love the beard. Is there a union leader of any of the main unions without one ? I think it's mandatory.

Aidric

Is it true that O Connor models himself on Joseph Stalin?

Elmo

Everyone is going to have to get really not just the Unions. IMO the media are just attacking the public service yet unwilling to look at the problems in the Private sector.

While I thought that Mr. O'Connor was talking a load of non-sence, I did think that yet again the Public Sector are being scapegoated and I am talking about the normal run of the mile Clerical workers, Nurses, Garda, Teachers etc not their bosses. Many of the regulators should be either demoted or fired, the same goes for many of the POs, APs and Secartary Generals in the public sector.

I would agree with a pay freeze and higher taxation for higher earners, rather than pay cuts, pay cuts will just bring more hardship where the rich will continue to earn as much as ever and while money remains with only a few there is lack of spending power going on and hence further deflation and further redundancies in many other areas of the economy.

Jip

Elmo wrote: »

yet unwilling to look at the problems in the Private sector.

What problems would they be, the businesses closing down, the employees being laid off, the other employees taking pay cuts etc etc. You're delusional if you think that a pay freeze can be forced upon high earners in the private sector. Why would you even think of doing so ? The money used to pay these people doesn't come from the public purse and will have no affect whatsoever on the country's finances.

Elmo

Jip wrote: »

What problems would they be, the businesses closing down, the employees being laid off, the other employees taking pay cuts etc etc.

The Banking sector is a major problem. Bonuses for bosses with out saving for a rainy day, the need for the same profits in 2006 as in 2009 which is unrealistic.

Many of the problems in the public sector can actually be seen in the private sector just as much. Remember there are many people who still would find the pay of a CO way below what they had in the private sector and indeed I have hear where during the boom years a Teachers wage was to be laughed at.

Jip

I don't really understand what you're saying in the first part of your post, but I don't know of anyone that laughed at teachers salaries during the boom years, if that's what you're saying.

Elmo

Jip wrote: »

I don't really understand what you're saying in the first part of your post, but I don't know of anyone that laughed at teachers salaries during the boom years, if that's what you're saying.

Well I do know people who laughed at teachers wages during the boom years. What I am saying about the Private sector is that while The Frontline (sorry for the pun) in private business have taken the hardship of wage cuts and redundancies many of their bosses remain on, even though in reality many of the bosses are the same people who many the mistakes that cost people their jobs.

I do think that the public sector needs to be reduced, but it cannot be in The Frontline (sorry). I would rather see Prof. Drum step down than Nurses or the closure of Hospital beds. What plans dose Prof. Drum have for his €70,000 bonus?

In the public sector reduce the amount of management and the wages paid to management. Instead of more Nurse, Doctors, Gaurds and other important public services we got more managers.

In the private sector come to the conclusion that to survive that you are better off trying to breakeven than letting go of staff in the hope that you will make the same kind of profits as before. I know in many cases this will not be possible but if you are just looking at your profit rethink that so that you can rebuild in the future, it will be harder to rebuild if you let go of all of your staff.

amacachi

Elmo wrote: »

Well I do know people who laughed at teachers wages during the boom years.

You're moving in the wrong circles then.

Jip

I think Elmo that when you think of the private sector you're just looking at the banks but the private sector is every other small/medium/big company operating in the state that is not funded by the state.

deisemum

Also bear in mind all the self-employed people who don't have work and don't count on the live register and aren't entitled to unemployment benefit.

They cannot even get on training courses if they choose to reskill as they're for those on the live register and they cannot even apply for temporary work in the run up to christmas with places like An Post as those posts are also for those on the live register.

JonathanAnon

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/siptu-boss-refuses-cut-to-8364124000-pay-1915673.html

Jack O'Connor is a hypocrite. I'd say that 10k of his 124k wages are spent on elocution lessons to ensure that he maintains his working class Dublin accent, while himself being an upper class. His jibe about Kenny was a cheap shot, and if O'Connor was going to personalise it, Kenny should have thrown his own wages back in his face. No union leader should be paid more than the average wage of the people he represents.

What really bugs me about these union guys is that they all wheel out the ambulance drivers, nurses, teachers etc etc when they are giving anecdotal evidence of "one of the people that we represent". They never seem to give anecdotal evidence of those hugely overpaid people in the public service who do **** all. I was contracted to an IT dept. in the HSE a few years ago, and I was stunned by the lack of motivation of the staff there.

Unions are no longer the guardians of workers rights, they are the agents for public servants. He was on with Marian Finucane on her radio show last Saturday, it's on the podcast now. Didnt answer one straight question, bar the ones that reflected positively on him.

Aidric

Jip wrote: »

What problems would they be, the businesses closing down, the employees being laid off, the other employees taking pay cuts etc etc. You're delusional if you think that a pay freeze can be forced upon high earners in the private sector. Why would you even think of doing so ? The money used to pay these people doesn't come from the public purse and will have no affect whatsoever on the country's finances.

Unfortunately his response is sympthomatic of the misunderstanding out there.

smcgiff

I'd say Pat is constantly restrained in these situations because of his own salary and circumstances, and is half expecting such a jibe from the likes of O'Connor every time he chairs debates on the economy. Good to see Pat has developed a pair, although his sulkish scowl afterwards (some camera director is going to get a severe talking to ) left him down somewhat.

Now - with that said - Pat Kenny is paid WAY more than he deserves. As well as all high paid Civil/Public Servants.

Elmo

Firstly I amn't talking about small self-employed people with a staff of 5. Many of those individuals are suffering due to the economic downturn. And TBH as pointed out we should be giving them as much access to retraining etc as we do for PAYE workers.

I am talking about bigger companies and companies that are quite capable of surviving without profit while reducing the pay of their management and staff, without redundancies.

I am in agreement that Higher paid public servants should take a pay cut and many should be demoted at the very least or even (in some cases) fired (and not replaced). But I have to say the same about very many bosses in highly paid private well oiled industries, many of them are just as to blame.

They never seem to give anecdotal evidence of those hugely overpaid people in the public service who do **** all. I was contracted to an IT dept. in the HSE a few years ago, and I was stunned by the lack of motivation of the staff there.

And this is often due to the fact they often don't get paid as much as contractors and there is resentment there and that their promotions in their view are taken over by contractors. The civil service (and I am sure the HSE) has a class structure which is high infuriating for people in the system. I have seen people promoted just on the basis that they did a good interview and passed the Civil Service exam for that grade, and yet you work your ass off and no one even takes that in to consideration. So you can see why the CS and other public bodies suffer form lack of motivation when they realize they are not likely to get that promotion and that is even more apparent now that there is a freeze on new recruits and promotions.

Jip

Elmo wrote: »

I am talking about bigger companies and companies that are quite capable of surviving without profit while reducing the pay of their management and staff, without redundancies.

That can't happen in any company that has shareholders to answer to. A shareholder sees a company willing to operate without making money just to keep people in a job they're going to sell theirs shares. The companys share value falls through the floor, has no money to work with and then goes bust.

JonathanAnon

smcgiff wrote: »

Good to see Pat has developed a pair

Yeah, I've gained a lot more respect for Pat since his last season on the LLS. He just seemed to relax in to the show for the last season and was doing a real good job at the time he handed over.

I think Pat might have been a hero if he'd decked that lad that walked onto the show spouting insults at him. Remember that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiIsIE8iT28

Maybe it could have been his practice bout for decking O'Connor last night when he said that "crap" about his house. But his verbal retort was forthright, and certainly put O'Connor back in his box.

Elmo

Jip wrote: »

That can't happen in any company that has shareholders to answer to. A shareholder sees a company willing to operate without making money just to keep people in a job they're going to sell theirs shares. The companys share value falls through the floor, has no money to work with and then goes bust.

So the answer becomes lets reduce pay and jobs in favour of profit. The staff cann't keep up with the work, they are de-motivated by the pay cuts and redundancies while they see the shareholders retaining their dividends and management on high wages, because rather than breaking even they tried to make a profit and eventually failed because they didn't have enough staff and their customers had also taken pay cuts hence the couldn't afford to fork out money for the companies products. It is all a life cycle, you cut peoples wages on the lower end of the scaled you reduce the amount of money floating around the economy.

Jip

Why is it that you think that management don't also suffer pay cuts ?

Elmo

Jip wrote: »

Why is it that you think that management don't also suffer pay cuts ?

I am sure they do, but as pointed out a management pay cut of 15% is nothing in comparison to a 15% pay cut for their staff on very low wages. I know that both private and semi-state companies have cut pay with their management. Also I am not talking about middle management. Little has been done with management in the Civil Service, General Secs are still earning as much and I have heard nothing from them that they will either take a pay cut or a pay freeze.

deisemum

The owners of a lot of small businesses that are struggling have had big reductions in their own income while they've struggled to maintain jobs, also a lot of owners have taken home less pay than their staff just to keep the business afloat until things hopefully pick up.

Rujib1

Jeez, what would have happened if working class hero Jacko, had mentioned that bit of land Pat the plank, squatted on out there in whatever exclusive part of Dublin he is squatting on :P:P

R

Elmo

deisemum wrote: »

The owners of a lot of small businesses that are struggling have had big reductions in their own income while they've struggled to maintain jobs, also a lot of owners have taken home less pay than their staff just to keep the business afloat until things hopefully pick up.

And I did mention that those are more important than the big business that I am talking about. Small business with 5 - 20 employees or self employed people who aren't get as much work. I am talking about a different section of society.

We do need to support small business just as much as larger ones, but lets face it most of the work done by government has been to save themselves and big business.

Elmo

Rujib1 wrote: »

Jeez, what would have happened if working class hero Jacko, had mentioned that bit of land Pat the plank, squatted on out there in whatever exclusive part of Dublin he is squatting on :P:P

R

Well he was living on that piece of land for since 1995