Another "realistic price?" question...

WithCheesePlease

Ok, so there's a 3 bed town house for sale in a nice development in Milltown, Dublin 6. Price was originally listed as 585K, for what it's worth. Down to 435 now.

Is this a fair price for this yet do ye think? Or if ye were going to offer would ye go in way under?

EDIT: I forgot to link to the property

Gaz

435 for a 3 bed town house ? Are you mad ?

Paulyh

offer way under and see what the reaction is, or ask if there have been other offers........but yes 435 is still high.

WithCheesePlease

Paulyh wrote: »

offer way under and see what the reaction is, or ask if there have been other offers........but yes 435 is still high.

No other offers, price has already been reduced. And I know - it was too much to begin with.

Gaz wrote: »

435 for a 3 bed town house ? Are you mad ?

Eh, no. But it's just a decent location and a nice place and I have no idea what the place should be worth. I've only ever seen prices going up and up and up and have no idea what's worth what any more - hence why I'm asking.

I mean, what's a fair price for this place then?? Does anyone even know any more?

unklerosco

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

I mean, what's a fair price for this place then?? Does anyone even know any more?

Possibly the best question about property I've ever heard...

AARRRGH

435k is crazy money.

You need to stop comparing prices to bubble prices.

How much would it cost to rent the house?

gurramok

435k for 86sqm, are we in Manhattan ?

Sconsey

It is really difficult to know what is a fair price, you could look back and see what the average price was about eight years ago and work from there (that should remove the effect of the bubble on prices), adding a few percent per year for inflation.

You could go by the average industrial wage multiplied by about 4.5, maybe more depending on location.

You could use the estumated yield to measure, I tend to use this myself, but who knows what a realistic yield should be? I usually go with a 7% gross yield when calculating....so try finding out what one of these houses or similar in a similar location is renting for. If for example they are renting for €1,000 per month that means annual rent is 12,000 (=gross yield). This would imply that the house is worth about €171,000 (12000/7 * 100). If the place is renting for €1,500 per month you are looking at a value of €257,000.

Of course there is no way that the vendor will sell for that kind of money which is why you should continue renting!

Eglinton

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

Ok, so there's a 3 bed town house for sale in a nice development in Milltown, Dublin 6. Price was originally listed as 585K, for what it's worth. Down to 435 now.

Is this a fair price for this yet do ye think? Or if ye were going to offer would ye go in way under?

EDIT: I forgot to link to the property

I've lived in two of these three beds in Abbeyfield over the years. They're lovely to rent. It's a quiet area, plenty of green space, plenty of parking, quiet.

However, two of the bedrooms are box rooms. The only decent bedroom is the master bedroom (very big) with ensuite. The kitchen and living rooms are separate and big. The balcony is very big. I think number 87 would be overlooking the rugby pitches of the school.

As apartments go, they're not a bad option as a purchase if that's your thing (note I'd never buy an apartment though). You couldn't raise a family in them for long. I've also heard of water damage to a few apartments. Balconies that leak into the apartments below resulting in huge costs. It's a bit of a trek to the Luas in the morning (and impossible to get on the Luas in Milltown at peak times into town) and the bus routes aren't great there.

You'd probably be doing well if you got 1300 for them as rent these days. The two box rooms are just too small to justify a large rent. If we use 1300 and the 14x rule you talking about 220K. I think for the location though you have to add a premium, so lets say 250K - 300K max if Ireland was a realistic country (and it ain't)

WithCheesePlease

AARRRGH wrote: »

435k is crazy money.

You need to stop comparing prices to bubble prices.

How much would it cost to rent the house?

I'd say 1,500 p/m to rent this place if it was on the rental market...

Eglinton

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

I'd say 1,500 p/m to rent this place if it was on the rental market...

I'd say less. I lived in a better 3 bed (all double rooms), similar sized apartment in Milltown for 1400 last year and it was a lot closer to the Luas. 1300 max

WithCheesePlease

So in conclusion it's maybe worth max 300K, but there's no way the vendor would accept this so it's best to just forget I ever saw it? Cos I can't imagine the price would ever come down to that, and some poor fool's just going to buy it in the meantime anyway.

I can't remember the last time I bought something and paid what it was actually worth, be it clothes, a tv service, a car, whatever. Just the world we live in. Or the country we live in at least. And as much as we want, I can't see attitudes changing much any time soon. I can't imagine ever being able to buy property for what it's actually "worth" without being outbid.

Anyway, I've gone completely off topic here! Just annoys me that it just seems impossible to know when to buy at the moment, or that we at least can't pay a fair price.

ArraMusha

Wait for another few months...hold...and maybe then these unrealistic bubble prices will finally come down to reality.

stepbar

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

So in conclusion it's maybe worth max 300K, but there's no way the vendor would accept this so it's best to just forget I ever saw it? Cos I can't imagine the price would ever come down to that, and some poor fool's just going to buy it in the meantime anyway.

I can't remember the last time I bought something and paid what it was actually worth, be it clothes, a tv service, a car, whatever. Just the world we live in. Or the country we live in at least. And as much as we want, I can't see attitudes changing much any time soon. I can't imagine ever being able to buy property for what it's actually "worth" without being outbid.

Anyway, I've gone completely off topic here! Just annoys me that it just seems impossible to know when to buy at the moment, or that we at least can't pay a fair price.

You think?

I'm in the market at the moment and had 3 experiences today which are as follows:

- I put a bid on a 1 bed apt in Phibsboro - 115k. Turned down flat. I said to the the auctioneer that I was happy to leave it sit. As far as I'm concerned I've offered a fair price.

- I put a bid on another 1 bed in Harolds Cross - 100k. Got a call this morning turning it down but stating that the seller was open to offers but not at the price I stated. I said I was happy to leave it sit and again as far as I'm concerned I've offered a fair price.

- I went and had a look at a few apts in the Clongriffen area a few weeks back. The auctioneer rang me this morning advising me that he had spoke to the builder (Menolly Homes BTW) and that there was a deal to be done (having plaged me in the weeks before that). I said that even if he offered me the apt at 50k, I wouldn't be interested. So I left it at that.

Point is that, it's a buyers market and to hell will formalities. I just won't be screwed considering that I will have to take out a 35 year mortgage to fund same. Auctioneers and vendors can go fcuk themselves if they think I will pay over the odds for over priced property.

WithCheesePlease

Fair play on holding tough on your principles stepbar. And you're dead right.

stepbar wrote: »

Point is that, it's a buyers market and to hell will formalities. I just won't be screwed considering that I will have to take out a 35 year mortgage to fund same. Auctioneers and vendors can go fcuk themselves if they think I will pay over the odds for over priced property.

But the trouble is (as I see it) people will inevitably start buying again. And although the prices may not seem fair, or just, people will still pay them. Granted at a lower price than before, but I really can't see prices levelling to what they should be. And we'll just be left renting while we protest at the unfair prices while we watch others buy up around us again.

Or maybe my head is just still just stuck in the boom times too.

loyatemu

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

Fair play on holding tough on your principles stepbar. And you're dead right.



But the trouble is (as I see it) people will inevitably start buying again. And although the prices may not seem fair, or just, people will still pay them. Granted at a lower price than before, but I really can't see prices levelling to what they should be. And we'll just be left renting while we protest at the unfair prices while we watch others buy up around us again.

Or maybe my head is just still just stuck in the boom times too.

people will start buying again, yes. and more people will start selling again too - just because the market has got going again doesn't mean prices will go back up - the economy will still be in the toilet, taxes will still be high, many people will be in negative equity and there will still be an oversupply of new builds. Rents are likely to stay low too.

Prices now compared to the height of the boom look like good value, but if you'd seen today's prices in 2001 you'd still think they were crazy...

Mugatu

Like everyone else who knows what price will be the lowests for houses in Ireland / Dublin. A few weeks back I was visiting family in Toronto and one was looking to buy a 3 bed town house in one of the nicer parts of the greater Toronto Area. Asking price........................... up to 285k Canadian dollars or 182k in euros. So in that context its a crazy price.

SLUSK

86sqm is not a real house, more like a summer house or something. My parents house here cost them about 170K all in all and that includes a big garage for 2 cars which they built plus creating a big garden. This house is 140sqm located about 150 meters from a lake with a view to the lake from the house.

What do you chose this house or a small flat in Ballymun if you paid the same money?

Just wanted to put things into perspective here people.

WithCheesePlease

SLUSK wrote: »

Just wanted to put things into perspective here people.

But just begs the question how salaries there compare to salaries here. And cost of living in general.

MG

My usual advice on valuing a property........I've given this advice before and many people are sceptical but try valuing it in a number of ways. I would suggest these 4:

1. Annual rent by a factor of somewhere between 14 and 20.
2. Taking an average house as being valued at €1600 per sq m, ask yourself how far from an average house is this (5000 per Sq M is extremely high)
3. Deduct 40-60% from the 05 price
4. Look around the area and if you know what the neighbours do, guesstimate their average annual income and multipy by 3.5 and by 6.

These are all intended to give you a range of its real worth. They are likely to give you a fairly wide range but only by considering the implications of all these can you really work out a range of realistic values

bangersandmash

SLUSK wrote: »

86sqm is not a real house, more like a summer house or something. My parents house here cost them about 170K all in all and that includes a big garage for 2 cars which they built plus creating a big garden. This house is 140sqm located about 150 meters from a lake with a view to the lake from the house.

Not that I believe the property listed here represents good value, but it sounds like you're comparing a rural or semi-rural property with a property located close to the centre of a city, hence the appellation "town house". It isn't really the same as a "summer house" either

stepbar

stepbar wrote: »

- I put a bid on another 1 bed in Harolds Cross - 100k. Got a call this morning turning it down but stating that the seller was open to offers but not at the price I stated. I said I was happy to leave it sit and again as far as I'm concerned I've offered a fair price.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/brochure/3-gandon-close-harolds-cross-dublin-co&-city/UAWNS410836

Was 180k last week now 150k..... another 50k to go :rolleyes:

Sir Oxman

deleted

JuliusCaesar

105m2...another town house E300K asking price, any ideas?

How Strange

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

105m2...another town house E300K asking price, any ideas?

My friend lives near this development. Her street is very nice, I'd say the houses are probably 1930-40's.
However, she has been hassled and assaulted (minor physical violence - the odd kick, punch, a stone thrown at her once which hit her on the side of the head) a few occasions when she was walking up her road onto Cork St by young teenagers. I know she's not joking or exaggerating and she's not the type of person to be nervous of passing a group of youngsters hanging around.

So would you pay €300k for a townhouse here?

Eglinton

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

105m2...another town house E300K asking price, any ideas?

Let looks at the facts and figures. Rialto is traditionally, a heavily working class / deprived area in parts. It doesn't matter how close anyone says it is to the city centre or various amenities, it is by no means an aspirational area.

If we say that the average people that want to live here are for example a couple (He, a labourer or city council worker on €25K; She, works in Tesco, 20K). Their combined income might get them to a mortgage of €225K. If they need 8% deposit, that means the maximum they can afford is €245K.

I'd have my doubts on banks even giving that sort of mortgage to this type of couple.

If you earn more money than my example, then it's highly unlikely you'd want to live in Rialto in a 3 bed terrace (nice and all as it is on the inside).

The previous post by How Strange on the dangers in the area further highlights the madness of paying much money to live in such a place.

gurramok

Which brings home the point that we are nowhere near the bottom yet as the type of people that will buy in a dodgy area are lets face it people who lived there all their lives and can't afford 300k.

Stepbar, 30sqm for that apt. The Dublin City Council have alot to answer for in allowing that type of shoebox to be built. :mad:

stepbar

300k for a gaff in rialto is beyond belief. It's the only words I have for it. Gurramok - I hear what you are saying.....the price I've offered reflects that. To be fair it's a nice gaff and very suitable for me at this point.

stepbar

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

Fair play on holding tough on your principles stepbar. And you're dead right.



But the trouble is (as I see it) people will inevitably start buying again. And although the prices may not seem fair, or just, people will still pay them. Granted at a lower price than before, but I really can't see prices levelling to what they should be. And we'll just be left renting while we protest at the unfair prices while we watch others buy up around us again.

Or maybe my head is just still just stuck in the boom times too.

What you've said only goes to prove (to me) that people are idiots. They can't be trusted to act rationally. I agree with you. Unfortunatly the few cause the rest of us to scratch our heads and wonder why...