golf shot distances (climate related)

conman

hello all,

After talking to a few americans the other day about golf in ireland, they were surprised they couldnt get near the distances they would normally hit, however they were talking about the lack of roll upon landing, most balls were plugging..

Anyway, A question sprung to mind, and this is regarding climate conditions mostly. I think the only way this can be measured is ball carry, as its difficult to compare fairways whether they be soft or hard. So, if you have played both in Ireland and warmer climates, or indeed if you have heard from other people discuss, then please feel free to answer.

1. How much does the Irish climate lessen the distance of golf shots?
2. How far could an average drive of 270yards in damp conditions in Ireland expect to fetch in Spain or Florida or somewhere warm?
3. How much roll should we expect to gain from our drives, I know it depends on trajectory, softness of the fairway etc.. but is there an average or a formula for calculating these kind of things?

Id like to know this, as I've no idea where we stand with relation to distances, we see how far the pros hit on the PGA tour, and the European tour, but they consistantly get to play in fairer conditions.

mag

i dont know the answer to your questions as theyre a bit 'how long is a piece of string' but i carry my irons approx 10 yards less in cold winter days than a sunny summer day.

stockdam

I don't know.......but I do know that the average drive carry ain't 270 yards.

It's hard to compare drives.......some people's drives are almost all carry whereas others get a lot of roll (depends on trajectory).

You'll usually get much more roll in summer and on links courses.

Altitude is another factor but for most courses this isn't an issue.

Pros hit the ball much further than people think........amateurs hit the ball a shorter distance than they pretend.

conman

stockdam wrote: »

I don't know.......but I do know that the average drive carry ain't 270 yards.

It's hard to compare drives.......some people's drives are almost all carry whereas others get a lot of roll (depends on trajectory).

You'll usually get much more roll in summer and on links courses.

Altitude is another factor but for most courses this isn't an issue.

Pros hit the ball much further than people think........amateurs hit the ball a shorter distance than they pretend.

ah yes, i wasnt saying the average carry is 270yards, i meant if someone averaged 270yards carry, i personally average between 250-270, judging by the plugged landings at the weekend..

The reason for my questions, are to compare how we in Ireland fare in comparison to warmer climates, so carry is the only real comparison, as that would take links fairways and so forth out of the equation.

The roll i think is a difficult one to calculate, as trajectory can have a huge impact on the roll, i was just wondering if there is an approx distance or percentage of distance that people generally get from roll.

heavyballs

stockdam wrote: »

I don't know.......but I do know that the average drive carry ain't 270 yards.

It's hard to compare drives.......some people's drives are almost all carry whereas others get a lot of roll (depends on trajectory).

You'll usually get much more roll in summer and on links courses.

Altitude is another factor but for most courses this isn't an issue.

Pros hit the ball much further than people think........amateurs hit the ball a shorter distance than they pretend.

can't find the interview but Paddy H said that when he plays or practices in Ireland over the winter period his normal carry is 235-240 yards with his driver.
Most players havn't got a clue,they'd robably prefare to not know.
Next time you have to carry water in winter in particular walk it out and you'll be surprised.
In saying that have played in the states and it defo seemed to hang in the air with i'd say about 15% more carry

mag

heavyballs wrote: »

can't find the interview but Paddy H said that when he plays or practices in Ireland over the winter period his normal carry is 235-240 yards with his driver.

i would seriously doubt that unless its into a 30 yard wind. id say PH would carry 260+ in winter here and 280+ normally.....at the very least

ShriekingSheet

mag wrote: »

i would seriously doubt that unless its into a 30 yard wind. id say PH would carry 260+ in winter here and 280+ normally.....at the very least

+1

In fact, I was at PH meet and greet thing in Spawell a few years ago where he was hitting a few shots and talking. He hit about 10 half shots to warm up and proceeded to knock his first drive over the fence, and that was in Ireland, in winter, with a range ball. The fence, as per the markings, is about 270 but realistically is probably 255-260. Either way, it was up hill and he flew it comfortably.

Anyway, I'm sick and tired of all these people who "average 250-270" on boards.ie. I would love to line you all up on the 15th in South County one day, 265 yard carry accorss a small river from the middle disc.
Very, very few people knock it accross there and the gas thing is, the tee-box is raised, and the wind is usually helping from right to left, so you don't even have to fly it anywhere near 265, more like 250 and it's still only the longest Category 1 players get over.

fitslikeaglove

I grew up in Australia and I can confirm the ball runs considerably more there. The ball also travels that bit further in the air. In winter here I always use at least 1 extra club. I also played golf in Las Vegas last year and I was hiting a 5 wood as far as I would drive the ball here (approx 250 yards).

heavyballs

mag wrote: »

i would seriously doubt that unless its into a 30 yard wind. id say PH would carry 260+ in winter here and 280+ normally.....at the very least

so i made it up,for what gain?

sweetswing

my driver carry is about 215 ot 220 on average in ireland, i played in thailand and malaysia this summer and i could carry the ball 20 to 30 yards further , great feeling looking at the ball soar off into the distance .

mag

heavyballs wrote: »

so i made it up,for what gain?

i not saying you made it up for any gain, just that imho its not correct

PhilipMarlowe

I played with Michael Lavelle in the European Club.. think it was November/December 2007.
He has represented Ireland in a long drive competition in vegas as far as I remember and he hit the ball the furthest of anyone I've ever played with... miles, particulary that winter day in the european. I've also played with Gary Murphy but he's not renowned for hitting it long and he'd tell you that there are guys on tour hitting it 30+ yards past him regularly.
I found this info about Lavelle on the foregolf site:

Michael’s clubs and his yardages:

Ping Rapture 9* Grafalloy Pro launch Red Stiff:
... 44.25”@ D4: 280-300 yards.

Taylor Made TP Burner 3 wood with Grafalloy Pro-
.... Launch Red Stiff: 42.75 @ D2: 245 yards off the
....deck and 260 yards off the tee.

Ping G10 5 wood with Grafalloy Pro Launch Red
....Stiff 42.25 @ D2: 235 yards.


....D2: 210-220 yards.

Ping I-10 irons with Project X satin 6.5: Standard
....length, _* upright all with stronger lofts: 5-205
....yards 6-184 yards / 7-168 yards / 8-155 yards /
....9-142 yards.

Ping Tour Wedge 47*: 128 yards.

Ping Tour Wedge 52*: 112 yards.

Cleveland 588 RTG Hand Grind wedge: 98 yards.

Callaway X-Tour 64*: 65/68 yards
....(links course use only)

conman

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

+1

Anyway, I'm sick and tired of all these people who "average 250-270" on boards.ie. I would love to line you all up on the 15th in South County one day, 265 yard carry accorss a small river from the middle disc. .

Dont be sick and tired until you have your chance to prove people wrong. its as easy for one person to say they can do something, as it is easy for another to knock em down.. until you know, you dont know..

In my case, I am guaging my 250+ from the K-club strokesaver, I was driving well, and each ball was a foot or 2 from the plug it made, and in some cases was still plugged, so there wasnt any roll. if the strokes-savers say 250 or 270 from the tee (give/take position on tee box), then who am i to disagree.

heavyballs

as the course is measured from the middle of the fairway the only way to really know how long anyone carries is to buy a measuring wheel and beleive me you will be very surprised

conman

heavyballs wrote: »

as the course is measured from the middle of the fairway the only way to really know how long anyone carries is to buy a measuring wheel and beleive me you will be very surprised

possibly so, maybe a gps either.. but yea, there is a lot to be considered to know our shot distances.

mag

rangefinder?

goofontour

Yea yea, but can you stick the next one to < 10feet!

Grey Fox

Hi conman,

Interesting topic, I can only guess but my answers would be...

1. How much does the Irish climate lessen the distance of golf shots? From my experience I'd estimate the carry distance for a drive struck in winter would be about 85% or 90% of the carry of a similar shot in summer. 270 yard carry in summer = 230/240 in winter according to that calculation, seems reasonable.

2. How far could an average drive of 270yards in damp conditions in Ireland expect to fetch in Spain or Florida or somewhere warm? Not a whole lot more, maybe 290?? I believe the distance above or below sea level has a huge effect- Paul Casey was hitting 160 yard pitching wedges at high altitude and the lads on sky were saying in low altitudes you'd often need 2 clubs more.

3. How much roll should we expect to gain from our drives, I know it depends on trajectory, softness of the fairway etc.. but is there an average or a formula for calculating these kind of things? I have no idea, assuming flat firm ground and a good trajectory I would guess a 260 yard carry would roll about 30 yards.

heavyballs wrote: »

Next time you have to carry water in winter in particular walk it out and you'll be surprised.

Wouldn't usually step out a carry over water without a lifeguard!!!


Sheet I don't know why you disbelieve the driving distances of people on this forum, any decent ball-striker can easily average 260 yards off the tee (including roll). Whenever I want to find out how far I hit the ball I would use the yardage on the scorecard and then deduct whatever I have left to the flag e.g hole = 335 metres, ball stops at 100 metre marker in the fairway, drive = 235 metres. Assuming the hole yardage and markers are correct there's your driving distance.

stockdam

My driver must be getting "worn" as I can only carry 240 and maybe at a push 250 in the winter........and that's my Sunday best. Harrington would hit it at least 30 to 40 yards outside of me.

Swinging Looney

I always laugh at people who "pooh-pooh" anyone who claims to hit their drives long distances. I can only be an inferiority complex or chip on your shoulder or something like that.

Some people really do hit the ball a long, long way. I've played with many of them. The one consistent trait however is that in general they hit their drives with a 260 carry or more anywhere but down the middle of the fairway. High clubhead speeds are not terribly rare. But control and speed together ARE rare in amateurs. It is not a simple case of assuming that since the pros hit the ball a long way that an amateur can not. The difference is the pros can control it.

To the OP; I would generally take 1 club more on a cold winters day versus a nice summer day. Maybe a half a club more if it is cold and raining too. So for me 1 club is around 12 yards or so. Call that about an average of 6 or 7% difference.

PhilipMarlowe

From the USGA course rating system:
"The following are terms essential to the USGA Course Rating System:

Scratch Golfer: A male scratch golfer is a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses. A male scratch golfer, for rating purposes, can hit tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots at sea level"

Interestingly, I was reading that in 1963 the scratch golfer was assumed to carry a driver 215 yards for course rating and then SSS was calculated based on this and how much roll the course had etc.

I've played the 15th in South County (from the back) and I know that out of 10 drives I could probably hit 7 or 8 of them into the water at ~260 centre fairway but I doubt I'd even carry my sunday best into it, let alone over it.

jimbling

The reason that there is so much argument over driver distances is because there is no real way to measure it. The only obvious way for an amateur is exactly what greyfox said

Grey Fox wrote: »

Whenever I want to find out how far I hit the ball I would use the yardage on the scorecard and then deduct whatever I have left to the flag e.g hole = 335 metres, ball stops at 100 metre marker in the fairway, drive = 235 metres. Assuming the hole yardage and markers are correct there's your driving distance.

The problem with this is that it's just not correct for the most part. Most holes are not perfectly straight and flat. Normally there is a wind to think about too. But at the end of the day there's not much else to go on. I know thats how I measure it. I would normally knock off a bit depending on how much I believe I cut out of the hole etc.

e.g. the 11th hole in Blarney is 404y from white tees. It is one of the straighter holes there and is pretty flat. Last time I played I was 15y inside the 100y marker when taking my second shot. My father was ecstatic going around telling people his son can drive the ball 310y. I tried tell him there is a very slight turn on the hole and that this makes all the difference. I would say my angle cut out about 20/30y.... he wouldn't hear anything of it though


I've seen people here say you have to walk it out or some other method that takes way too much effort. Can you not see why amateurs are not going to do this? Also, it would mean nothing.. you would have to do it hundreds of times to get an average. NOT going to happen.

Also, I have seen people here saying that it's not your average because you don't hit it straight that often. Now this is technically correct, but again, can you not see why amateurs are just going to discount big slices or massive hooks?

An amateur is always going to say his average drive is what it would be if he took all his solid drives and got the average. Its just ridiculous to think he will take the topper that went 20ft into a ditch into consideration.

I think guys here just need to take it as it is. Live and let live. At least until a good method of measurement is in place.

Swinging Looney wrote: »

I always laugh at people who "pooh-pooh" anyone who claims to hit their drives long distances. I can only be an inferiority complex or chip on your shoulder or something like that.

Some people really do hit the ball a long, long way. I've played with many of them. The one consistent trait however is that in general they hit their drives with a 260 carry or more anywhere but down the middle of the fairway. High clubhead speeds are not terribly rare. But control and speed together ARE rare in amateurs. It is not a simple case of assuming that since the pros hit the ball a long way that an amateur can not. The difference is the pros can control it.

I have to say, I agree with you for the most part. I see quite a lot of amateurs, myself included, that can hit the ball pretty far. I would be a long driver*, but I have played with a few amateur guys that are just amazing.
The presidents prize day I was playing with a guy I'd never played with before. He was a 16 handicapper. I was driving the ball very well, and he was out driving me by a good 20/30y every single time. Almost every second shot was a wedge. On a 163y par 3 I struck a solid 7 iron beautifully onto the green. This guy pulls out a 9 and reaches it no problem. Amazing.
In saying that, the guy was having an awful awful time around the green.


*I have recently changed my swing. This change has definitely brought down my distances slightly but has given me more consistency. I am hoping the distance will come back as I get more used to it.

ShriekingSheet

Grey Fox wrote: »

Sheet I don't know why you disbelieve the driving distances of people on this forum, any decent ball-striker can easily average 260 yards off the tee

Swinging Looney wrote: »

I always laugh at people who "pooh-pooh" anyone who claims to hit their drives long distances. I can only be an inferiority complex or chip on your shoulder or something like that.

You know, you might not be far wrong. Maybe I do have a chip on my shoulder about it. Hitting it far is something I pride myself on, and it p*sses me off to see others making all sorts of calculations and coming up with tour-calibre distances.

jimbling

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

You know, you might not be far wrong. Maybe I do have a chip on my shoulder about it. Hitting it far is something I pride myself on, and it p*sses me off to see others making all sorts of calculations and coming up with tour-calibre distances.

How far is your drive, on average?
How do you calculate that average?
What handicap are you?



Also, I think you need to get to grips with the fact that an internet forum is obviously going to be rife with exaggeration. That's just a fact of life. Humans do that sort of thing in general anyway.... and when there is no possibility of been proved wrong it becomes all the more common.

But even with that in mind, exaggeration only makes up for some people, and some values. i.e. the normal method of exaggeration in this case would be to base it on the length of some of the longer drives. Their excellent hits, rather than the average of they're hits.

spacecoyote

jimbling wrote: »

But even with that in mind, exaggeration only makes up for some people, and some values. i.e. the normal method of exaggeration in this case would be to base it on the length of some of the longer drives. Their excellent hits, rather than the average of they're hits.

would have to agree with that, I'd say that I average out around the 240-250 (including run) yard mark. I've hit a few monsters around the 300 mark, but thats been with favourable conditions and everythign working perfectly. Unfortunately that doesn't happen too often

Tom Ghostwood

Can you not calculate your average driver distance from what you hit from 150 meter marker? I hit 8 iron from 150 meters. Im long off the tee with the driver. I reach the 150 marker on 9th at Glenlo abbey almost always & its 225 meters carry up a big hill. I cant hit driver on the first hole at Roscrea GC as its 265 meters to the green & if I catch it well enough Il be through the green & with an okay hit il be in the bunkers guarding the front of the green.

I find since Ive been back playing last few months after 9 years hiatus that its so much easier get good distance out of drives that are averagely struck. I hit a few drives the last round off the toe & off the bottom too & all went pretty straight & i didnt loose that much distance (all around 215m - 225m carry)

You can measure your distance very accurately with a range finder. Best way to do it is from your ball to the marker on the tee box.

As the saying goes though: Drive for show & put for dough

ShriekingSheet

jimbling wrote: »

Also, I think you need to get to grips with the fact that an internet forum is obviously going to be rife with exaggeration.

Yes, yes, very true. It just grates on my nerves to read so regularly, but you're right of course.

jimbling wrote: »

How far is your drive, on average?
How do you calculate that average?
What handicap are you?

I don't know what my average is with the driver. To be honest, I'm pretty sure it fluctuates quite a lot, depending on how much my swing is in the slot. I know my irons, that's all that matters really if you ask me. I just checked some cards of courses I've played just as a point of reference.

In the Lord Mayor's Cup at Clontarf, I flew it onto the 9th green. And a 3 wood onto the upslope of 13. At Junior Cup in South County I made eagle on the 15th with a driver and a 3 iron. I've hit 6 iron in there down-wind. Got on the 13th in Old Conna in two the last two times I've played it, one from the back sticks.

At the other end of the scale, I hit myself with a 9 iron playing with Mister Sifter & Licksy earlier this year on a day that was "bound to clear up any minute".

I'm 4, so between Junior & Senior Cup lines. At Junior level I'm longer than most. From what little Senior golf I've played lately I reckon I'm average-ish, or slightly longer than average.

stockdam

Like SS I only really care about my irons.......and the level I now play at I only care about 7 iron and in. Outside of that I'm too inconsistent. As for my drives, one day they are brill, the next I could cry. It's hard to say how far the average player hits the ball as the average golfer is quite short off the tee. I hit one drive 320 yards this year (paced it out, used the markers and Google Earth) - it was windy; on a normal summer day I might just get to within 40 or 50 yards of that if I cracked one - I haven't seen anyone get anywhere near that drive yet this year (did I say it was windy).

Rory would reach 320 yards and imo that's way beyond most amateurs......even gifted ones.

Swinging Looney

stockdam wrote: »

Like SS I only really care about my irons.......and the level I now play at I only care about 7 iron and in. Outside of that I'm too inconsistent. As for my drives, one day they are brill, the next I could cry. It's hard to say how far the average player hits the ball as the average golfer is quite short off the tee. I hit one drive 320 yards this year (paced it out, used the markers and Google Earth) - it was windy; on a normal summer day I might just get to within 40 or 50 yards of that if I cracked one - I haven't seen anyone get anywhere near that drive yet this year (did I say it was windy).

Rory would reach 320 yards and imo that's way beyond most amateurs......even gifted ones.

I think that about sums it up. A lot of guys hit crap drives most of the time and one day hit a screamer that goes 290. After that they tell everyone that they drive the ball about 290. My average drive including roll is now around 265-270. I have hit a very small number around 285ish but to call that my average at the moment would be laughable.

I did hit a 335 yard 3 wood once though! Straight down a 25mph wind, caught it perfectly, nice and high, landed on a steep downslope and ran like Usain Bolt! I really should quote that as my average from now on!

DonkeyPokerTour

The thing that I have noticed when playing with "serious golfers" by that I mean category 1's and low cat 2's is that most don't try and "hit" there driver every time, they will "knock it down" the middle, still a fair distance but then when the fairway is nice and wide and there's no real trouble left or right they will "go after one" and usually add 20-30yards to there drive. So low handicappers will rightly say there average is say 240, but when they "go after" one they might average 270.

However most higher handicap players "go after" all there drives. I say most this is just from my experience and not set in stone. I also see most High handicappers tend to leave out the one they "didn't catch right" out of there average so end up with a highly biased average.

As I said these are just my observations, others may find different but having played with a fair few category 1 golfers, and a fair few high handicappers and those in between these are my observations.

kingshankly

Played recently with a two handicap who is renowned for hitting a long ball he got quite a shock when I showed him his actual distance on my gps, his guess was always 20-30 yards more than he actually hit it. Mind you he still managed a few 300 plus.

conman

kingshankly wrote: »

Played recently with a two handicap who is renowned for hitting a long ball he got quite a shock when I showed him his actual distance on my gps, his guess was always 20-30 yards more than he actually hit it. Mind you he still managed a few 300 plus.

i think gps or google earth are the only options that can really unravel distances, but GPS's are quite pricey for me. I have used google earth tho, and im happy with the return i got from the ruler measurments there.

jimbling

Google earth doesn't have my home course which is a shame. Ireland is 5/6 years old on google maps.
There is another website (iso maps or something) that does have it though as I used to measure out the distance to go for the green on the 10th there before. I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can get a better judgement of the distance I drive.

Swinging Looney

jimbling wrote: »

There is another website (iso maps or something) that does have it though as I used to measure out the distance to go for the green on the 10th there before.

What the address???

PhilipMarlowe

Google earth has a tiny portion of my club in high resolution and the rest is blurred muck!

jimbling

Swinging Looney wrote: »

What the address???

it's here, but doesn't seem to be working too well today.

It's nowhere near as good as google earth, specially when you try and get down to details.

Also, I'm not sure how accurate it is.... or else I'm doing something wrong in the calculation.

e.g. That 11th hole I talked about in previous post (404y on the card to front of green). It's pretty straight and flat. You might be able to cut off a few yards due to a very very slight curve.

I measured to where my drive would normally be and it came out at 220y. That was quite a shock to the system.
But before I forever assumed that all the naysayers on here are actually right I decided I better measure the whole hole. It came out at 320y. That's 80y shorter than on the card, so I'm not trusting that site for distances anymore.

I'll just have to wait until I get a gps program for my iPhone.

Swinging Looney

How did you measure distances using that site?? I don't see any ruler???

ShriekingSheet

Swinging Looney wrote: »

How did you measure distances using that site?? I don't see any ruler???

Yeah...?

conman

Swinging Looney wrote: »

How did you measure distances using that site?? I don't see any ruler???

you dont use the site, you must download the google earth application.
and then go to the top of the page, there is a drop down menu for ruler.
you can then use the ruler to drop 2 points on the map, then measure the distance between them in feet, miles, kms, cms, etc..