night vision goggles vs scope

mirtos

hi all, does anybody have any advice re: night vision goggles vs night vision scopes? my partner is an advid rabbbit/fox night shooter and i would like to get him one of the above. he currently shoots with a .22 airrifle and a .223 rifle. thank-you; any help is greatly appreciated .

4gun

mirtos wrote: »

hi all, does anybody have any advice re: night vision goggles vs night vision scopes? my partner is an advid rabbbit/fox night shooter and i would like to get him one of the above. he currently shoots with a .22 airrifle and a .223 rifle. thank-you; any help is greatly appreciated .

I think its totally illegal to use night vision equipment to hunt any animal here

BUACHAILL

4gun wrote: »

I think its totally illegal to use night vision equipment to hunt any animal here

Im not so sure about that but I dont know for sure so maybe someone could shed some light on it.

As for which is best, to be honest I think you wouldnt get anything worth considering unless you spend really big money, thats my opinion and I had made enquiries on one before. Maybe buy him a ggod lamp that sits on the rifle etc

johngalway

4gun wrote: »

I think its totally illegal to use night vision equipment to hunt any animal here

Not quite the case.

They are seperated into two categories here, NV which can be mounted onto a riflescope or gun, and NV which can't.

Dedicated NV rifle scopes and NV "add ons" which are mounted either behind or infront of the scope are restricted, and need permission to use from the local Superintendent.

I have never heard of permission being granted and no one I have asked has ever heard of it being granted. Usual crap, it's not illegal, just restricted and they won't grant you it.

The second type is NV which can't be fitted to a riflescope or rifle, such as the Yukon Digital Ranger. As far as I'm aware you can purchase that and use it freely. If you go down that route then buy from the USA as Ireland and UK prices are just pulling the piss on that particular item.

The important thing to remember, again, as far as I am aware, is if it can be fitted to a rifle or rifle scope it's restricted.

4gun

johngalway wrote: »

Not quite the case.

They are seperated into two categories here, NV which can be mounted onto a riflescope or gun, and NV which can't.

Dedicated NV rifle scopes and NV "add ons" which are mounted either behind or infront of the scope are restricted, and need permission to use from the local Superintendent.

I have never heard of permission being granted and no one I have asked has ever heard of it being granted. Usual crap, it's not illegal, just restricted and they won't grant you it.

The second type is NV which can't be fitted to a riflescope or rifle, such as the Yukon Digital Ranger. As far as I'm aware you can purchase that and use it freely. If you go down that route then buy from the USA as Ireland and UK prices are just pulling the piss on that particular item.

The important thing to remember, again, as far as I am aware, is if it can be fitted to a rifle or rifle scope it's restricted.

should have clarified, I knew hand held was not illegal but it was gun mounted ones that i meant earlier

Grizzly 45

If the US will ship it to you.Some of the stuff is now under ITARS regulation.

johngalway

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If the US will ship it to you.Some of the stuff is now under ITARS regulation.

Not a problem with the Ranger, last time I bought one anyway

meathstevie

4gun wrote: »

I think its totally illegal to use night vision equipment to hunt any animal here

Any dazzling equipment, mirrors, lamps etc etc is prohibited to hunt protected wildlife. As in with an open and closed season that is.

Good nightvision sights are still mad expensive, a decent rifle scope will put you back a few thousands if you can get permission to use it all so I think the pricing and the powers that be have allready made the choice for you OP.

kowloon

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If the US will ship it to you.Some of the stuff is now under ITARS regulation.

God forbid we get our hands on their western technology, 'tis arcane witchcraft I tells you.

mirtos

hi everybody,
thanks for all your advice. in the end, i asked himself, and was told that he'd rather a chainsaw for that kind of money!
have a safe and rewarding shooting this season.

4gun

mirtos wrote: »

hi everybody,
thanks for all your advice. in the end, i asked himself, and was told that he'd rather a chainsaw for that kind of money!
have a safe and rewarding shooting this season.

what's he going to do now terroize them while wearing a hockey mask:D

arrowloopboy

johngalway wrote: »

Not quite the case.

They are seperated into two categories here, NV which can be mounted onto a riflescope or gun, and NV which can't.

Dedicated NV rifle scopes and NV "add ons" which are mounted either behind or infront of the scope are restricted, and need permission to use from the local Superintendent.

I have never heard of permission being granted and no one I have asked has ever heard of it being granted. Usual crap, it's not illegal, just restricted and they won't grant you it.

The second type is NV which can't be fitted to a riflescope or rifle, such as the Yukon Digital Ranger. As far as I'm aware you can purchase that and use it freely. If you go down that route then buy from the USA as Ireland and UK prices are just pulling the piss on that particular item.

The important thing to remember, again, as far as I am aware, is if it can be fitted to a rifle or rifle scope it's restricted.

Or alternatively just buy a nv scope or add on from the states ,and use it till a member of the guardi tell you otherwise,but it would be well worn out again then

CJhaughey

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Or alternatively just buy a nv scope or add on from the states ,and use it till a member of the guardi tell you otherwise,but it would be well worn out again then

Thats all well and good until a firearms savvy garda ( there are a few) pulls you up and you end up in front of a judge trying to say that you were not using the restricted firearm in any subversive capacity.
I wouldn't risk it for a biscuit.

johngalway

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Or alternatively just buy a nv scope or add on from the states ,and use it till a member of the guardi tell you otherwise,but it would be well worn out again then

First off I know where you're coming from

But, for those who're new to that technology and the law concerning them...

Just, singularly, the fact that the device has the capability of being attached to a rifle or rifle scope makes it restricted.

So, owning a device that can be attached to a rifle/rifle scope but not using it attached to one... That will still land you in trouble if you meet the wrong cop

Whether you own a gun or not.

Again, some will care, some will know, most won't on either counts, up to the individual taking the risk. I wouldn't.

Sparks

johngalway wrote: »

Just, singularly, the fact that the device has the capability of being attached to a rifle or rifle scope makes it restricted.

Worse than that, according to the law, it makes it a firearm in itself. So even if you don't own the rifle it straps to, you can still be done for possession of an unlicenced firearm if you tick the Garda off enough.

johngalway

Moral of the story, if you're gonna be bold (and you shouldn't be anyway), don't tick "the man" off

rrpc

johngalway wrote:

Just, singularly, the fact that the device has the capability of being attached to a rifle or rifle scope makes it restricted

Just one thing, they're not restricted. They're like moderators, they need an authorisation from a Superintendent.

johngalway

My mistake. Do they have any particular label on them?

rrpc

johngalway wrote: »

My mistake. Do they have any particular label on them?

What do you mean by label?

johngalway

Don't mind me Requires authorisation will do

arrowloopboy

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thats all well and good until a firearms savvy garda ( there are a few) pulls you up and you end up in front of a judge trying to say that you were not using the restricted firearm in any subversive capacity.
I wouldn't risk it for a biscuit.

Savvy Guards:rolleyes:,one of my friends went into the station and said he wanted a license for a .308,guard replys,whas dat,friend replys ,a deer stalking rifle,guard replys,i see your licensed on a .22,why dont you use that:eek::D.

johngalway

[wry smile] You know, Gardai will remain ignorant to stuff they don't want to know, or don't need to know, yet. But, I wouldn't take the chance of a lot of them being as ignorant as they make out when it comes to getting into hot water. [/wry smile]

ivanthehunter

Firstly NV scopes are neither illegal or restricted. There is no provision on the law which allows a superintendent to provide a grant of permission nor is it stated as a requirement anywhere in the act. They are classed under the criminal justice bill 2006 as a firearm- but within in the same section, the law also states that any component part of any firearm is also classed as a firearm. Now i dont go looking for an extra licence to buy a large capacity magazine (as long as its less than 10 shots)

Now some people here would suggest that section 3.2 of the FAC1 form is the spot in which to declare you intentions to use such devices but IMO this section is subject to interpretation through lack of definition.

Sights ???:rolleyes:/ others:rolleyes:

Dont roll over..

Agh sure its no wonder the Irish shooting world is having its wings clipped year after year. It just seems that people here accept their faith all too easily!! This makes it easier for the Do-Gooder brigade to direct their unhappy whims at a smaller array of targets.

Its clear that their are people here who are lining their own nests. Some are target shooters, others are hunters and some are just enthusiasts. Within these groups there there is a distinct inability for these group to gel.

The only thing these groups have in common is guns!

Sparks

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Firstly NV scopes are neither illegal or restricted.

Correct, but they are firearms under the Act and as such do require either a licence or an authorisation. And we've told you this in each of the several threads you've started (while professing to not know much about NV kit - I'm glad you now feel more informed, but somewhat sad that you're incorrect in what you believe is true).

There is no provision on the law which allows a superintendent to provide a grant of permission

This is incorrect, it's covered in section 2(5)(a):

(5) (a) The Superintendent of any district may authorise in writing the possession, use or carriage of firearms or ammunition in that district in any of the circumstances specified in paragraphs (d), (e), (f), (g), (h) or (j) of subsection (4) of this section,or of any component parts of a firearm, during such period, not exceeding one year, as may be specified in the authorisation.

nor is it stated as a requirement anywhere in the act.

Incorrect, they are classed as a firearm and thus possession without a licence is a criminal offence.

They are classed under the criminal justice bill 2006 as a firearm- but within in the same section, the law also states that any component part of any firearm is also classed as a firearm.

Yes, and you can (and people have been) arrested and tried for possession of an unlicenced firearm when "all" they had were component parts. This stuff isn't make-believe Ivan, it's the law and regardless of how silly we think it is, we're bound by it untile we get it changed.

its no wonder the Irish shooting world is having its wings clipped year after year. It just seems that people here accept their faith all too easily!

Only the Dionysians. I understand the Christians have a real struggle with theirs.

This makes it easier for the Do-Gooder brigade to direct their unhappy whims at a smaller array of targets.

Yes, that's the problem. Nothing to do with political expediency for a Minister for Justice during an unprecedented rise in criminal abuse of guns combined with poor public relations efforts by NGBs in the preceding decades...

ivanthehunter

I don't need a licence to own component parts for a firearm, for which i already have a current licence!! So i cant be arrested for that one:rolleyes:

And the section 5a that you made ref to above does not allow for any type of hunting!! So a super could allow you to have a NV scope but you would not be allowed to use for the killing of any animal.

The thing that holds the most weight here is the simple fact that silencers are included in the same firearms definition sub section but yet they have a specific rule attached to their possession and use, no such rules are directly stated in relation to night vision scopes.

Remember that this section also stated that any component part of any firearm is a Firearm whether it is required for the operation of the firearm or whether it is simply used in conjunction with the operation of a firearm.

Now this means that a firing pin spring is a firearm but it also means that a rifle stock/butt is a firearm

In my gun room i have many such parts and various odds and ends, some are specifically for guns i own and other are more general and could be fitted to any gun- I have no additional licences for these nor do i intend to acquire such as they are not required!!! AS I AM A LEGAL FIREARMS OWNER!!

Sparks

ivanthehunter wrote: »

I don't need a licence to own component parts for a firearm, for which i already have a current licence!! So i cant be arrested for that one:rolleyes:

Sure... if it's listed on the licence. If not, yes you can. And if you buy one aftermarket for your rifle and don't get a licence/authorisation, you definitely can be.

And the section 5a that you made ref to above does not allow for any type of hunting!! So a super could allow you to have a NV scope but you would not be allowed to use for the killing of any animal.

Actually, that's absolutely correct. You'd have to also have it as a condition on your hunting licence (see section 38 of the wildlife act as amended, subsections 1(b) and 1(c)).

More disturbingly, that holds for moderators too...

The thing that holds the most weight here is the simple fact that silencers are included in the same firearms definition sub section but yet they have a specific rule attached to their possession and use, no such rules are directly stated in relation to night vision scopes.

Well, (a) that's not true, Section 1's definition of a firearm - specifically g(i) - is the bit that directly talks about NV scopes, and (b) thinking you have to be explicitly told everything you can't do with a firearm is a pretty fast way to get in trouble.

Now this means that a firing pin spring is a firearm but it also means that a rifle stock/butt is a firearm

Yes.
And yes, it's dumb, and yes the Gardai generally exercise common sense here -- but they can arrest you for it if it came down to it.

nor do i intend to acquire such as they are not required!

You might never need them; that does not mean they're not required...

ivanthehunter

Sparks wrote: »

Sure... if it's listed on the licence. If not, yes you can. And if you buy one aftermarket for your rifle and don't get a licence/authorisation, you definitely can be....

Now thats just not true. If i hold a firearms licence then i have permission to own such an article and any required components. Sure-up until recently this was stated on www.justice.ie but sadly they removed but no doubt you seen it and seen the errors contained with in but it was obvious as to what they were trying to say!

Sparks wrote: »

You'd have to also have it as a condition on your hunting licence (see section 38 of the wildlife act as amended, subsections 1(b) and 1(c)).
...

Only applies to protected wild birds and protected wild animals!!

Sparks

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Now thats just not true.

It's very true. The only way your rifle licence would cover an NV scope is if you had it specifically listed. Buy it as an aftermarket part and you need more paperwork.

Only applies to protected wild birds and protected wild animals!!

Yup. Can't go whacking bunnies with an NV scope it would seem... unless of course you have a licence for it...

johngalway

Sparks wrote: »

Can't go whacking bunnies with an NV scope it would seem... unless of course you have a licence for it...

Christ Sparks, whacking bunnies with a NV scope? Do you know how much those thing cost

Much easier to shoot them yanno

4gun

johngalway wrote: »

Christ Sparks, whacking bunnies with a NV scope? Do you know how much those thing cost

Much easier to shoot them yanno

It's a bit like paddy whacking only lou've got to be faster and fitter to catch 'em

Sparks

It's healthier for you john - you get some good cardio and a meal!