Are luxobarges really affordable to buy and run?

Mr Benevolent

I ask because like a lot of us I'm a budget luxury kind of guy. When I have an actual career (just turned 30 and starting college next year) I'll be able to buy a luxobarge for not much more than €10-€15k, maybe a V6 TDI Phaeton or S320CDI. Chances are it'd be an everyday driver driving not more than 20km per day with a few forays at the weekend.

But are they really worth it? Will I be hit with goddamn massive bills every time I start the engine? I plan to maintain any car I own myself, mainly for the interest. Or will I be better sticking to the *sigh* Passat brigade in the long term?

A bit existential I know, but hey, it's 2:24 in the morning, at least in Ireland

EPM

I'd make sure I budgeted a few extra k in case anything major happened. You probably wont ever need it but it would give some peace of mind. Some run of the mill wear and tear items may be more expensive too but that wouldn't bother me too much

Kersh

It depends what you buy. Some of them are very complicated - 740i - and some are not so complicated - XK8/XKR - The big Beemers and Mercs have so much computer controlled things on them that they can be expensive if something goes wrong, and you need to diagnose it.The XKs are fairly simple, and easy to maintain. I did pulleys/belts/waterpump/thermostat on mine, and maintain everything else myself. There are no gizmos to go wrong on it. Petrol is a killer, and so is tax, but worth it

Mr Benevolent

Kersh wrote: »

It depends what you buy. Some of them are very complicated - 740i - and some are not so complicated - XK8/XKR - The big Beemers and Mercs have so much computer controlled things on them that they can be expensive if something goes wrong, and you need to diagnose it.The XKs are fairly simple, and easy to maintain. I did pulleys/belts/waterpump/thermostat on mine, and maintain everything else myself. There are no gizmos to go wrong on it. Petrol is a killer, and so is tax, but worth it

Interesting, and fair play for doing it all yourself. I've been reading up on one or two, mainly the Phaeton, and electronic gremlins seem to be the main thing. Actually in the Phaeton's case it's down to it having two batteries, one for starting and one for the systems. The system one tends to drain quickly and the low voltages trigger false warnings (check brakes, check suspension etc). Seems like VAG, BMW and Mercedes just don't care about getting things right nowadays :rolleyes:

Tipsy Mac

I was looking into this myself and I was working it out that based on my driving and car useage to put costs in or around what I am spending at the moment. I would need to purchase something in the region of €5000-€8000 and then with the road tax costing approx €1600 a year to match a normal sized 3 or 4 year old car for costs. In the end my worry was that a major breakdown like a gearbox would prove too costly and there was too much risk.

Matt Simis

Confab wrote: »

Interesting, and fair play for doing it all yourself. I've been reading up on one or two, mainly the Phaeton, and electronic gremlins seem to be the main thing. Actually in the Phaeton's case it's down to it having two batteries, one for starting and one for the systems. The system one tends to drain quickly and the low voltages trigger false warnings (check brakes, check suspension etc). Seems like VAG, BMW and Mercedes just don't care about getting things right nowadays :rolleyes:

I think you took that up in reverse, the beauty of 2 batteries (which is common on many high end cars) is that you can generally start the car without worry, a good thing.
All the extra crap is run off a 2nd battery, which also acts as a booster to the main one. In the Phaeton's case, just change the main battery when its meant to as opposed leaving the 5year+ one in there. The car is quite informative when it has a problem, but most of the problems are from people with negligent attitudes towards battery maintenance.

I had a V10 Phaeton for just under 2 years and had no major issues, just minor stuff I fixed myself. So minor I cant even remember specifics.

VolvoMan

The more modern the car, the more things there are likely to go wrong. The E65 7 Series would be a prime example, with the whole car being absolutely stuffed with technology.

mondeo

This is a route I looked into myself 6 months ago, A 99' shape Merc s320 was my star car in mind, quite cheap to buy one now, it's too tempting but if you had a major mechanical breakdown like a gearbox or fooked engine you would pay more then what you payed for your second hand luxury cruiser to have it fixed and then would it be worth fixing comes to mind.

Fear of expense turned me of the S class so I bought somthing else which is almost on par with an S class, 7 series, A Volvo S80. Even with this the parts for these cars are maniac prices and I would fear a major mechanical breakdown would cost the earth but not as much as a S class etc... You would really want emergency funds on standby in the event somthing went wrong with such a car. A neighbour has a 00 S class and it is some car I will say that....

mickdw

In my opinion, if you can afford a 30k mondeo/passat etc, you can afford a 15k barge. The savings made on purchase being set aside for tax, fuel, general repairs and the possibility of an absolute wallet bursting nighmare repair. Chances are you will still have alot of the cash in the bank when finshed with the car but still, it is needed just in case.
The question then is.... Would you prefer a new mondeo (near 30k) or a 2003 S320 cdi? (about 15k)

junkyard

Why not buy a classic Mercedes or BMW from the 1970's or 80's? Cheap tax, no NCT very usable as an every day car and most parts are still available. I'm driving a Mercedes 450 SEL at the moment almost every day and have no issues with it, it's good enough on petrol, mid 20's on a run, road tax is only 48 euros a year and it's a very nice car to drive, power-steering, electric windows and an electric sunroof. Something like this is hard to beat for value for money. 4-6k euros should get you a good one.

Mr Benevolent

To be fair, the chances of a bad engine or autobox are unlikely in a well engineered, high end car as far as I can tell. Fuel costs and insurance seem to be the main expenses.

mike65

+ 1 to that, fix them with a spanner and screwdriver.

unkel

I ran 2 old (7 years old when I bought them) BMW V8 petrol saloon cars for nearly a decade. Total cost of ownership was less than buying a 2 year old Corolla and changing it every 2 years. Says it all really. Obviously, your mileage can not be too high, or the figures won't add up. And I was not unlucky, in that no major thing ever went wrong with the cars.

BTW I wouldn't aim for a 6 pot diesel barge - worst of both worlds tbh.

dutchcat

why would you even consider a diesel doing 20 km's a day?

Mr Benevolent

dutchcat wrote: »

why would you even consider a diesel doing 20 km's a day?

It has the best fuel consumption in the Phaeton range, but it's fair point, I probably wouldn't save anything buying a diesel anyway. Time to rethink.

Voodoomelon

I'll never buy any other kind of car. The value that's out there is phenomenal and the prices are rock bottom due to people's ignorance and unwillingness to commit to a big car, when in fact if they sat down and did the maths, they would realise they would be just as well off with a nice big old saloon.

What's a 2006 Golf now, 15k? You have to be $hitting me. 10k would get you an 2002 S320, 745i, A8 4.2l fully loaded with full history and 60-70k miles. The 5k difference will set you up for tax and repairs for 2-3 years and you have a sitting room on wheels. I find it a pleasure and something of a novelty to come across someone driving the same car as me and it brings a smile to my face every time.

Why anyone would want to drive a car that every other tenth person on the road has is beyond me...

dutchcat

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'll never buy any other kind of car. The value that's out there is phenomenal and the prices are rock bottom due to people's ignorance and unwillingness to commit to a big car, when in fact if they sat down and did the maths, they would realise they would be just as well off with a nice big old saloon.

What's a 2006 Golf now, 15k? You have to be $hitting me. 10k would get you an 2002 S320, 745i, A8 4.2l fully loaded with full history and 60-70k miles. The 5k difference will set you up for tax and repairs for 2-3 years and you have a sitting room on wheels. I find it a pleasure and something of a novelty to come across someone driving the same car as me and it brings a smile to my face every time.

Why anyone would want to drive a car that every other tenth person on the road has is beyond me...

+++++1

Volvoboy

Hmm, i have a loan of my da's '99 Merc S320 for tomorrow as a mate is borrowing mine tomorrow, and he's in the process of selling it (well has it for sale atleast)

I'd love to buy it, but i know when i'm doing 1000 miles a week on average, it dosent make financial sense.

Even tonight when i stopped into the local garage, a auld fella was saying what a nice car it is, along with 2 young 'wans who said it was ''Bleadin' massive'', great feeling when somone remarkes on the car. I know i'll never get it in my humble Carina

Voodoomelon

What MPG would you get with the Carina Volvoboy? A diesel S class might well be comparable.

cson

The S Class would certainly make for a nicer work office

B11gt00e

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'll never buy any other kind of car. The value that's out there is phenomenal and the prices are rock bottom due to people's ignorance and unwillingness to commit to a big car, when in fact if they sat down and did the maths, they would realise they would be just as well off with a nice big old saloon.

What's a 2006 Golf now, 15k? You have to be $hitting me. 10k would get you an 2002 S320, 745i, A8 4.2l fully loaded with full history and 60-70k miles. The 5k difference will set you up for tax and repairs for 2-3 years and you have a sitting room on wheels. I find it a pleasure and something of a novelty to come across someone driving the same car as me and it brings a smile to my face every time.

Why anyone would want to drive a car that every other tenth person on the road has is beyond me...

Absolute fair play.... i saw your post on transmission fluid replacement and was dead on... you don't just appreciate the big 7... you love her... ya gotta love your car.

lotta people in here having flings with cars, or seemingly running car harems like junkyard and some others... but ya got to love your car.. my biddy is sweeeeet...

Keep on cruising voodoo... I rarely pass a seven or eight without a moment of appreciation, but then, all the other models, new or old wouldn't make me flinch....
I think the legends look good and all.. though never had experienced the drive... say its loaded and smooth... I like the v6's myself in any configuration, but take the opportunity to take my brothers 5.3 out whenever he's feeling generous as the chorous of the multivalve engine is something to behold... more so when smooth and discrete like on the high end marks... you don't need to promote the 8,10 or 12 with exhaust... the beauty is in the smoothness!

mullingar

I have a 98 Lexus GS300, my FULL running costs including tax, insurance, depreciation, DIY servicing and petrol for 12k miles worked out to be €6k!

Yes paying the motor tax is painful @1,300/yr, but the deprication is tiny compared to newer mondeo's/vectras etc

Mr Benevolent

mullingar wrote: »

I have a 98 Lexus GS300, my FULL running costs including tax, insurance, depreciation, DIY servicing and petrol for 12k miles worked out to be €6k!

Yes paying the motor tax is painful @1,300/yr, but the deprication is tiny compared to newer mondeo's/vectras etc

€6k??!

Youch. Any chance of a breakdown (no pun intended)?

Confab

Confab wrote: »

To be fair, the chances of a bad engine or autobox are unlikely in a well engineered, high end car as far as I can tell. Fuel costs and insurance seem to be the main expenses.

Modern auto boxes are software controlled, at times they go t1ts up and requires software upgrades (much like a mobile phone), not cheap.

Confab

Confab wrote: »

€6k??!

Youch. Any chance of a breakdown (no pun intended)?

That's not bad, it includes tax, insurance and petrol, depreciations and all maintenance, all for €120 a week. People pay that on fincance for Focus and Astra type cars and lose another €4000 / annum on depreciation.

mullingar

1300 tax
600 insurance
2,500 petrol (12k miles @ 24mpg = 500gal =2270 litres = €2.5k)
1,000 Depreciation
600 4xNew tyres and servicing
= €6,000


If you cant afford €6-8k/year on a luxobarge, DONT GET ONE

Padraig Mor

Confab wrote: »

€6k??!

Youch. Any chance of a breakdown (no pun intended)?

Take out the tax and insurance and you're left with c. 4k for the year which ain't too shabby. I did ~ 14k miles last year and paid 3k+ for petrol on a 1.8.

mullingar

Off topic a bit:

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I did ~ 14k miles last year and paid 3k+ for petrol on a 1.8.

I hope its not that 1.8 petrol C5 you are selling! wow a 1.8 doing 22mpg:eek:, what did you do do it? fit a 500hp turbo kit with 1000cc injectors?

galwaytt

...mine's not a luxo-barge, but not too dissimilar, either, whilst a coupé, the maths of it is something like this:

Porsche 968 3.0 petrol
Tax - 1291
Insurance - 396
Tyres - 200
Servicing 200
Petrol - 8k miles @ 23mpg hooning or 29mpg cruising - Eur 1846
Depreciation - say 1500/yr
Total post p.a. €5433 or €104 per week.

Our 'normal' 06 Saab 1.9Tid diesel, even with 41mpg average, comes out like this:
Tax - 614
Insurance - 496
Tyres - 200
Servicing - 400
Diesel - 15k miles @ 41mpg avg - Eur 1774
Depreciation - jeebus, huge, what.....4000 p.a. ?
Total cost p.a. € 7484 or €143 per week

In reality, the Porsche only does about 4k miles this year, but as you can see, the fuel is the least of the issues. The single biggest, that jumps off the page, is depreciation. Oh, and don't forget the hidden cost: finance. The Porsche was bought and paid for, in cash. The Saab wasn't (Credit Union), so you need to add the interest to that too.........

My brother runs an 02 Saab 9-5 3.0turbo (petrol), and running costs are on a par with the 2.0t he had before it - only the tax is the difference.

+1 on too-complicated newer barges, but personally '80's stuff is just a tad too far back for me. '90's stuff though brings the mighty W124 in a whole plethora of versions. Me ? I'd but a 2.8 petrol one. Probably ditto, similar aged-BMW's (Unkel's).

mullingar

galwaytt wrote: »

...mine's not a luxo-barge, but not too dissimilar, either, whilst a coupé, the maths of it is something like this:

Porsche 968 3.0 petrol
Tax - 1291
Insurance - 396
Tyres - 200
Servicing 200
Petrol - 8k miles @ 23mpg hooning or 29mpg cruising - Eur 1846
Depreciation - say 1500/yr
Total post p.a. €5433 or €104 per week.

Our 'normal' 06 Saab 1.9Tid diesel, even with 41mpg average, comes out like this:
Tax - 614
Insurance - 496
Tyres - 200
Servicing - 400
Diesel - 15k miles @ 41mpg avg - Eur 1774
Depreciation - jeebus, huge, what.....4000 p.a. ?
Total cost p.a. € 7484 or €143 per week

In reality, the Porsche only does about 4k miles this year, but as you can see, the fuel is the least of the issues. The single biggest, that jumps off the page, is depreciation. Oh, and don't forget the hidden cost: finance. The Porsche was bought and paid for, in cash. The Saab wasn't (Credit Union), so you need to add the interest to that too.........

My brother runs an 02 Saab 9-5 3.0turbo (petrol), and running costs are on a par with the 2.0t he had before it - only the tax is the difference.

+1 on too-complicated newer barges, but personally '80's stuff is just a tad too far back for me. '90's stuff though brings the mighty W124 in a whole plethora of versions. Me ? I'd but a 2.8 petrol one. Probably ditto, similar aged-BMW's (Unkel's).

You have just summed it all up.

The biggest individual running cost of cars is not petrol/tax its DEPRECIATION.

Your 06 Saab 1.9Tid diesel costs you around €7.5k/year @ 15k miles @41mpg.
If I did 15k miles, my costs would be around € 6.8k /year @ 24mpg:D!

Mr Benevolent

mullingar wrote: »

If you cant afford €6-8k/year on a luxobarge, DONT GET ONE

I've currently got $10 to my name (about €6) and no job, so it's safe to say I can't afford one right now

Padraig Mor

mullingar wrote: »

Off topic a bit:



I hope its not that 1.8 petrol C5 you are selling! wow a 1.8 doing 22mpg:eek:, what did you do do it? fit a 500hp turbo kit with 1000cc injectors?

Whoops - there's only 52 wks in a year! Make that c. €2.5k - top of head figures mind you. Getting about 31 mpg.

Voodoomelon

B11gt00e wrote: »

Absolute fair play.... i saw your post on transmission fluid replacement and was dead on... you don't just appreciate the big 7... you love her... ya gotta love your car.

lotta people in here having flings with cars, or seemingly running car harems like junkyard and some others... but ya got to love your car.. my biddy is sweeeeet...

Keep on cruising voodoo... I rarely pass a seven or eight without a moment of appreciation, but then, all the other models, new or old wouldn't make me flinch....
I think the legends look good and all.. though never had experienced the drive... say its loaded and smooth... I like the v6's myself in any configuration, but take the opportunity to take my brothers 5.3 out whenever he's feeling generous as the chorous of the multivalve engine is something to behold... more so when smooth and discrete like on the high end marks... you don't need to promote the 8,10 or 12 with exhaust... the beauty is in the smoothness!

Cheers buddy, appreciate that. The biggest pain without a doubt, and I don't mind admitting it is indeed the motor tax, I find myself constantly saving for it. I only wish they'd move the tax over to petrol and diesel instead, I only do 12k miles a year and i'm paying many many many many times more than someone who does twice my miles in a car half as polluting.

I was talking to an english guy and two australians this week and they COULD NOT BELIEVE what I was paying. Genuine shock, you should have seen their faces. The Aussies said that they'll never complain about their $250 registration fee again.

Mr Benevolent

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Cheers buddy, appreciate that. The biggest pain without a doubt, and I don't mind admitting it is indeed the motor tax, I find myself constantly saving for it. I only wish they'd move the tax over to petrol and diesel instead, I only do 12k miles a year and i'm paying many many many many times more than someone who does twice my miles in a car half as polluting.

I was talking to an english guy and two australians this week and they COULD NOT BELIEVE what I was paying. Genuine shock, you should have seen their faces. The Aussies said that they'll never complain about their $250 registration fee again.

Six of one and half a dozen of the other. Both the UK and Australia have much higher income tax, be glad you're not paying that!

galwaytt

Confab wrote: »

I've currently got $10 to my name (about €6) and no job, so it's safe to say I can't afford one right now

Confab wrote: »

Six of one and half a dozen of the other. Both the UK and Australia have much higher income tax, be glad you're not paying that!

...indeed but big tax % on Zero income = .....well, zero. N'est-ce pas ?

Voodoomelon

They also don't have compulsory insurance. Third party is covered by the state. If you want insurance, its as low as eur300 for a 22 year old.

coolbeans

junkyard wrote: »

Why not buy a classic Mercedes or BMW from the 1970's or 80's? Cheap tax, no NCT very usable as an every day car and most parts are still available. I'm driving a Mercedes 450 SEL at the moment almost every day and have no issues with it, it's good enough on petrol, mid 20's on a run, road tax is only 48 euros a year and it's a very nice car to drive, power-steering, electric windows and an electric sunroof. Something like this is hard to beat for value for money. 4-6k euros should get you a good one.

I am so gay for your car! Kudos on an excellent purchase.

emurphy

junkyard wrote: »

Why not buy a classic Mercedes or BMW from the 1970's or 80's? Cheap tax, no NCT very usable as an every day car and most parts are still available. I'm driving a Mercedes 450 SEL at the moment almost every day and have no issues with it, it's good enough on petrol, mid 20's on a run, road tax is only 48 euros a year and it's a very nice car to drive, power-steering, electric windows and an electric sunroof. Something like this is hard to beat for value for money. 4-6k euros should get you a good one.

simply beautiful car mate. Fair dues. Real head turner imo. I'm dead jealous.

emurphy

after seeing the merc earlier I went to carzone in search...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/S-Class/Classic-/200937195147067/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/230/2.3e-aut/200940195361970/advert?channel=CARS

I wouldnt know if its good value though. What do ye reckon

emurphy

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/500-SEL/V8-LWB-T/200822188957320/advert?channel=CARS

another one...

sosulio

galwaytt wrote: »

...

Our 'normal' 06 Saab 1.9Tid diesel, even with 41mpg average, comes out like this:
Tax - 614
Insurance - 496
Tyres - 200
Servicing - 400
Diesel - 15k miles @ 41mpg avg - Eur 1774
Depreciation - jeebus, huge, what.....4000 p.a. ?
Total cost p.a. € 7484 or €143 per week


My brother runs an 02 Saab 9-5 3.0turbo (petrol), and running costs are on a par with the 2.0t he had before it - only the tax is the difference.

QUOTE]

I'm currently driving the 2.0t and getting just 20mpg with all city driving - may as well be driving the 3.0l

This was my stepping stone towards a luxobarge, 2.5k for 01 and no problems so far

Absurdum

emurphy wrote: »

after seeing the merc earlier I went to carzone in search...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/S-Class/Classic-/200937195147067/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/230/2.3e-aut/200940195361970/advert?channel=CARS

I wouldnt know if its good value though. What do ye reckon

the first one is absolutely beautiful, I've no idea what it is worth but that seems like good value to me, go for it!

mike65

emurphy wrote: »

after seeing the merc earlier I went to carzone in search...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/S-Class/Classic-/200937195147067/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/230/2.3e-aut/200940195361970/advert?channel=CARS

I wouldnt know if its good value though. What do ye reckon

emurphy wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/500-SEL/V8-LWB-T/200822188957320/advert?channel=CARS

another one...

If you are tempted avoid the latter w126 S Class sure it'll be built like a tank but you are in the "intermediate" period, a car that'll cost a bomb to tax and does have enough electronic bits to punch a hole in your wallet if something does go wrong and I see the NCT is almost out. The 1984 e class 2.3 is ideal if in good shape - easy to work on M102 engine, simple auto box, no tricky electrics/sealed black boxes. The W116 S Class looks a peach, but would have to make sure its well preserved to justify the price (Even Mercs rust and if its got into the box sections/suspension supports/inner wings the cars a probably not viable)

http://www.w116.org/library/yourclassic9403

galwaytt

I'm currently driving the 2.0t and getting just 20mpg with all city driving - may as well be driving the 3.0l

This was my stepping stone towards a luxobarge, 2.5k for 01 and no problems so far

Sweet jeebus - that's worse than a 911.....worse than a friends S8, too.....:eek: ....brother gets 26mpg on a 22km commute. His 2.0t was doing 27mpg. Both auto, btw.