Is grappling a thing of the past in UFC ?

DublinDes

Watching the last 2 UFC's I noticed their was hardly any grappling at all, practically all striking. Now I have only done a beginners course in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for 6 weeks to be honest, to understand grappling better and the UFC. But it seems to me that great Wrestling and Judo take downs along with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu submissions are almost a thing of the past ? In UFC 104, their was only one submission and that was in the undercard.

Why does a fighter like Joe Stevenson not want to try more take downs and submissions. Is grappling a thing of the past because the fighters think maybe it is too much of a risk in case they end up on their backs or something ?

callaway92

did you watch Tibau vs Neer??
Some sick takedowns in that

Also, Couture vs Vera is the next main event..Expect Couture to try and take him down

Also- Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez,

Expect Koscheck to go back to his old roots against "Rumble" and wrestle him

cowzerp

Wrestling has improved so fights are harder to get to the ground, plus the grapplers are learning striking and trying to dominate that way-and the fighters probably feel they entertain more striking and increase there popularity, in saying that GsP has become more of a grappler so he goes against the grain..

Grappling is not dead that much is sure..

DublinDes

callaway92 wrote: »

did you watch Tibau vs Neer??
Some sick takedowns in that

Also, Couture vs Vera is the next main event..Expect Couture to try and take him down

Also- Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez,

Expect Koscheck to go back to his old roots against "Rumble" and wrestle him

Was that the undercard ? A few takedowns in 7/8 fights. Still they were nothing on the takedowns of Matt Hughes or Karo Parisyan's Judo. Lesnar - just a big elephant who overpowers people to the ground. Velasquez - against a nobody, grappling wise, nothing technically great tah I could see.

Not impressed to be honest. Sure Randy will give us some good take downs - that's if he tries. As I'm afraid he will follow the present trend and just slug it out.

And all above you mentioned are takedowns, where are the submissions ?

DublinDes

cowzerp wrote: »

Wrestling has improved so fights are harder to get to the ground, plus the grapplers are learning striking and trying to dominate that way-and the fighters probably feel they entertain more striking and increase there popularity, in saying that GsP has become more of a grappler so he goes against the grain..

Grappling is not dead that much is sure..

Maybe points/rounds are been rewarded better for striking ?

callaway92

DublinDes wrote: »

Was that the undercard ? A few takedowns in 7/8 fights. Still they were nothing on the takedowns of Matt Hughes or Karo Parisyan's Judo. Lesnar - just a big elephant who overpowers people to the ground. Velasquez - against a nobody, grappling wise, nothing technically great tah I could see.

Not impressed to be honest. Sure Randy will give us some good take downs - that's if he tries. As I'm afraid he will follow the present trend and just slug it out.

And all above you mentioned are takedowns, where are the submissions ?

No, it was on the main card..you obviously havent seen the match..Some of his takedowns were sick...how can you say they werent as good as Paryisyan if you havent seen them?

ScottStorm

Grappling is definately not dead, It is a valuable part of any competitors arsenal, however with all competitors training it to some degree the takedown and submission defense has improved to the degree that we will see even less quick submissions than we see quick ko's.

I do feel that Dana and the UFC are pshing the striking game in order to bring in newer fans to the sport, unfortunately that does appear to mean that he will push a fighter who gets a few ko victories or is constantly in wars over a fighter who gets the same amount of victories by way of a slower ground game.

That's just the way of the UFC, don't get me wrong I am a big fan; but the UFC and Dana are very fickle, Just look at Tito, Arlovski even Machida. Machida had to beat everybody just to get a title shot yet Carwin was given Lesnar (until the change).

judomick

DublinDes wrote: »

Lesnar - just a big elephant who overpowers people to the ground.

hes a top tier collegiate wrestler, as you said you have only done a couple of bjj classes so maybe you cant see the skill involved.

MrStuffins

DublinDes wrote: »

Was that the undercard ? A few takedowns in 7/8 fights. Still they were nothing on the takedowns of Matt Hughes or Karo Parisyan's Judo. Lesnar - just a big elephant who overpowers people to the ground. Velasquez - against a nobody, grappling wise, nothing technically great tah I could see.

Not impressed to be honest. Sure Randy will give us some good take downs - that's if he tries. As I'm afraid he will follow the present trend and just slug it out.

And all above you mentioned are takedowns, where are the submissions ?

For one, Lesnar is more than an "Elephant", he was an NCAA Champion, the best of the best at what he does, wrestling. Isn't wrestling "Grappling"?

And Rothwell a nobody, compared to Velaquez he's not a nobody. Velasques had 6 fights and the only real test he had was Kongo. It's not as if it was Rothwell verses Fedor.

And what i think you see is that the level of grappling in MMA is getting so good that the fighters know it ain't going to the ground. Remember Griffin v Sherk? 2 grapplers duking it out. Sherk v Penn? Same thing.

JohnMc1

Alot of these guy fancy themselves wanting to have the next Bonnar vs Griffin match that everybody heralds as the greatest fight of all time [even though from a technical standpoint it sucked] Dana White, Joe Rogan going ape **** over them, etc.

That or a grappling based guy got a KO win previously and desperately wants to repeat it.

Odats

DublinDes wrote: »

Why does a fighter like Joe Stevenson not want to try more take downs and submissions. Is grappling a thing of the past because the fighters think maybe it is too much of a risk in case they end up on their backs or something ?

If you watch Stevensons fight against Fisher the position that resulted in Stevenson ultimately winning the fight via stoppage was via his grappling ability i.e. Stevenson was in Fishers close guard passed into side control trapped the arm and rained down elbows to ultimately finish the fight.

Grappling in the UFC isn't dead and just because somebody doesn't win by submission doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't utilising their grappling skills to finish fights as in Stevenson example above.

Also, when lads are sweaty it is harder to get submissions on due to opponents being slippery and as the fight progresses it becomes harder.

DrPhilG

Well as I'm bored and have too much time on my hands...

EDIT, table didn't copy right, will attach

So there has been a drop in submissions from 06 to 09, and there is a trend to have more subs in the Fight Night and TUF finales.

I wouldn't say it means an end to grappling though. I think it's a byproduct of the increasing level of skill in BJJ. People are getting better at sub defence.

But as others mentioned, less subs doesn't mean less grappling.

DrPhilG

There we go!

DublinDes

callaway92 wrote: »

No, it was on the main card..you obviously havent seen the match..Some of his takedowns were sick...how can you say they werent as good as Paryisyan if you havent seen them?

No, I didn't obviously miss the match. I seen all the fights, most twice including the undercard, maybe you could see " takedowns were sick " but I certainly didn't. Their was nothing to impress me like some of the takedowns I've seen in the past like Matt Hughes, Randy, Karo Paryisyan, GSP etc