Opinions on old carbon frame

D!armu!d

Since its Friday & everyone has time to waste, any views on this...

Have seen this carbon frame in a shop for €1,000 - pics here & here of the same model. I could get the bike under the cycletowork scheme so it would work out cheaper that the planetx ti frame I was thinking about.

From what I can see it would have been made around 2003 so was wondering is if there is any issue with a carbon frame from that far back. It is unused, but does carbon deteriorate over time? And has the technology behind carbon bikes moved on to leave this frame a bit out of date?

DirkVoodoo

I'd have to check up on it, but I'm pretty sure the matrix is susceptible to UV damage. Effectively this means your carbon bike will age over time.

I'm sure a 2003 frame would be fine, just check the frame and make sure there are no obvious defects.

blorg

Bear in mind that under the rules of the cycle to work scheme it has to be a complete bike and not second hand. Having said that the shop can write whatever on the invoice.

Raam

Beautiful frame. Belongs on the track really though?

Quigs Snr

Is that a full bike ? Otherwise hugely overpriced. For reference one of our lads sold a 2009 Look 586 with Kysrium SL's and Ultegra SL plus nice carbon finish kit for 1500 recently.

Carbon that age should be fine, one of my bikes is a 2000 model Trek 5500 (recently resprayed). Bike has more mileage on it than most cars on the road, has been through 3 full groupsets and maybe 15 crashes. Still rock solid perfect and as stiff as the day it left the factory.

lukester

Parker's are selling one for a similar price.

Given that it's from '03, you should have bargaining power if you go for it.

This guy liked his

Lumen

Apparently the 2003 KG381 used aluminium lugs, and according to this the "frame" weighs 1.75kg (I'm guessing this includes forks).

D!armu!d

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Is that a full bike ? Otherwise hugely overpriced. For reference one of our lads sold a 2009 Look 586 with Kysrium SL's and Ultegra SL plus nice carbon finish kit for 1500 recently.

Thanks for all the replies. Price is €1,000 for frame & fork only, but is new - was that Look sold 2nd hand?

Raam wrote: »

Beautiful frame. Belongs on the track really though?

From what I could find for the frame online, it had a road set up, while one guy had it single speed. I assumed it was a road frame, am I missing something on why it belongs on the track?

Quigs Snr

The look was secondhand. I think that frame is grossly overpriced. You could argue that it was old tech even when it came out. You will surely get a lighter, more modern frame for that kind of ballpark money e.g. Scott CR1, Dolan Hercules, Paganini or something in that ballpark. Your LBS should be able to get their hands on these..

niceonetom

Quigs Snr wrote: »

The look was secondhand. I think that frame is grossly overpriced. You could argue that it was old tech even when it came out. You will surely get a lighter, more modern frame for that kind of ballpark money e.g. Scott CR1, Dolan Hercules, Paganini or something in that ballpark. Your LBS should be able to get their hands on these..

+1

Unused and new are not the same thing, and if that frame really does use alu lugs with carbon tubes it's technology from the 80s nevermind 2003.

Chips Lovell

niceonetom wrote: »

+1

Unused and new are not the same thing, and if that frame really does use alu lugs with carbon tubes it's technology from the 80s nevermind 2003.

O rly?

BMC are still making bikes like that.

lukester

If I could get a good price on the frame, I'd take it. But I like Look.

niceonetom

el tonto wrote: »

BMC are still making bikes like that.

Well they use an aluminium cluster at eh seat-tube/top-tube junction but it's not really "like" that look, is it? It's about as close to a new BMC as this is.

Chips Lovell

niceonetom wrote: »

Well they use an aluminium cluster at eh seat-tube/top-tube junction but it's not really "like" that look, is it? It's about as close to a new BMC as this is.

The Team Machine Flandis "won" the Tour on was built with aluminium lugs and carbon tubing. Admittedly they discontinued that model this year.

P.S. This is no comment on the value for money that Look frame represents.

niceonetom

el tonto wrote: »

The Team Machine Flandis "won" the Tour on was built with aluminium lugs and carbon tubing. Admittedly they discontinued that model this year.

All that means is that BMC took slightly longer to relinquish an outdated way of making a bike, not that alu lugs are a good idea.

Would you buy that look for a grand?

Lumen

D!armu!d,

The moral of the story is: regardless of the merits of constructing a bicycle from carbon tubes and alloy lugs, when the time comes to sell it on they'll always be a niceonetom to devalue it.

Therefore any estimate of value should account for the fact that you may well be the final owner.

lukester

Would either of you buy it for 800? Just curious.

D!armu!d

Lumen wrote: »

Therefore any estimate of value should account for the fact that you may well be the final owner.

Would be happy enough to be the final owner as long as I got a good few years use out of it, but that's why the aluminium lugs have given me second thoughts as it might be a bit too dated already. Is there a link to show those frames have them? How big a drawback is it if you're planning on doing 100k at the weekend and the odd sportive, or is it just down to making it overpriced?

Was initially more attracted to the frame by looks than it being the latest technology so was hoping to find out if it's too far out of date for the price. Was reduced from €1,600 to €1k but there was no further bargaining to be had the day I was looking at it.

el tel

What attrcats you to this particular frame? For the same or similar wedge you could get a new ~1kg carbon frame or for not much more a good carbon framed bike.

Lumen

D!armu!d wrote: »

the aluminium lugs have given me second thoughts as it might be a bit too dated already. Is there a link to show those frames have them?

A few pages say so.

E.g. here

The Kg381 combines aluminum lugs with high modulus carbon fiber tubes...LOOK recently came out with an updated version, the Kg481 SL. The 481 is reportedly lighter (3.6 lbs for frame and fork) and the lugs and tubes join in a seamless fashion.

and even here (the SL version):

What's Carbon: Promax Super SL high-modulus carbon w/ hand-laid multi-shaped tubes w/ 7005 aluminum SLT Pro lugs

Not sure if the frame is exactly the same as the one in the pics - I'm going off the decals but that's a track bike.

Anyway, it looks likely that the lugs are alloy.

I think I understand why you want it. Looks are nice looking, and this is much cheaper than a new one.

I have a Scott Addict frameset that weighs loads less than that, but it's pig ugly. Buy whatever makes you happy.

D!armu!d

el tel wrote: »

What attrcats you to this particular frame? For the same or similar wedge you could get a new ~1kg carbon frame or for not much more a good carbon framed bike.

Mostly that is looks old school & is sort-of unique. A lot of the compact geometry, visible-weave carbon fibre bikes don't appeal to me to be honest, so was thinking either something like this or a Ti frame.

Lousha

Go for the planet-x . The Look is possibly going to dissapoint you regarding weight, stiffness and it will not have any warranty. Having bought a planet-x stealth I think they (all planet-x frames) represent the best value for money option. Also if you examine closely how the seat stays are joined to the main triangle on the Look you will see they are bolted on, therefore, the rear end may have too much flex. Hope this helps.:)

Quigs Snr

I have said it many times before. Part of buying an elective purchase like a high end bike is practicality, but an even bigger part is lust. If you want this bike you should go for it. You can be sure it will be a fine bike that you will go just as quickly on as any other.

Sure there may be more modern machines out there, lighter, stiffer etc... I paid similar money for an Aluminium Cervelo S1 frame recently. I could have gotten a fully built planet x plus a focus cayo and still paid for my flight to the etape next year with what the complete build cost me. The focus and planet x are fine bikes and they are carbon. So why did I go for the Aluminium Cervelo which is an 8 year old design ? Because I wanted to, thats why and no-one could talk me out of it, their fancy reason and science was powerless against my desire !

uberwolf

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Carbon that age should be fine, one of my bikes is a 2000 model Trek 5500 (recently resprayed)..

I can relate to some of those crashes, and a lot of that mileage! with my 5500

can you give (PM will do) of the respray, cost, etc?

Ta

Lousha

Quigs Snr. is right but lust and desire made me buy a De Rosa and going down the Tourmalet into Le Mongie chasing me faster descending mates I developed a speed wobble at around 85 kph :eek:....... due to frame (carbon) geometry .... so science:cool: made me desire a cheaper, stiffer frame, which the planet-x most certainly is ( built into a fixer so that I never ever, reach even 40 kph! ). Keeping the De Rosa though as I like to scare myself on occasion, great crit bike, just doesn't like straight lines over 80 kph. Sometimes the undesirable, frumpy even, turn out to be better rides !! D! Buy the common as muck planet-x (black of course) and come join the legion of the damned (cheap):D Oh, just a thought, raced a Trek 9900 mtb and it developed lacquer cracks adjacent to the alloy lugs underneath - only cosmetic, still going strong and its ancient now !

Lumen

Lousha wrote: »

lust and desire made me buy a De Rosa and going down the Tourmalet into Le Mongie chasing me faster descending mates I developed a speed wobble at around 85 kph :eek:....... due to frame (carbon) geometry

Which De Rosa? I still lust after a Neo Pro.

Lousha

Hi Lumen, it's a 2008 Avant 49cm sloping geometry, campag group ,fulcrum 3 wheels, got it from Evans Cycles. I suppose you can loose some stability in the frame if you make the triangle too small ,unless it's beefed up like a planet-x stealth is (heavy). If climbing is yer thing buy the De Rosa they come alive on the climbs

el tel

Lumen wrote: »

Which De Rosa? I still lust after a Neo Pro.

Before buying my Addict I considered a De Rosa Idol until I read the reviews and the reports of major wobble at speed. I had a King briefly and it was class bike though.

uberwolf

el tel wrote: »

Before buying my Addict I considered a De Rosa Idol until I read the reviews and the reports of major wobble at speed. I had a King briefly and it was class bike though.

sure clamp the frame with your knees. More aerodynamic anyway.

D!armu!d

Right, going from the posts above there are a few too many potential issues with that frame. Much as I like the look of it, buying it could have easily ended up being an expensive mistake. Thanks for the advice.

It's back to Plan A so...