Mental health issue - need help urgently for my brother

Philomena

Hello,

I am absolutely desperate for help please. My brother needs help and I dont know what to do. He thinks that his next door neighbour is trying to kill him and he thinks that a listening device has been planted under the floorboards in his hall.

I have tried to tell him that its not true but he just goes mad - he explodes and I dont know what to do. I know the first step is to go to my local GP and talk to him but I know that my brother will not go to a doctor as he thinks that its all real. How can I make him get the help that he needs. He is in his 40's and is living with my mother. He is such a quite guy and very lonely and very afraid and my poor mam is worried sick.

My brother is so paranoid about everything.

Can anyone please help?

Hovercraft

Sorry to hear that, Philomena. Must be very worrying for you. I would suggest that you talk to your GP yourself or that you phone The Samaritans. They should be able to help you out. I hope things work out.

sam34

your brother needs psychiatric assessment.

go to his or your GP and say you want to make an application for assessment under the mental health act.

this request cannot be refused.

you will have to fill out a form, which the gp will have.

then, within 24 hours of you signing that form, the gp has to see your brother. dont worry if he wont go to the surgery, the gp will then have to arrange to go to him. it's not a choice, it's the law, so its up to the gp to get to see him.

if the gp agrees that he needs psych assessment, he will fill out another form.

you will than have to get your bro to the local psych unit. how this happens varies across the country. ideally, he would agree to go with you. some hospitals send out staff to bring people in, others use an agency located in naas (i think). in other areas the guards will help. your gp should know what the local policy is, or if he doesnt know a quick phonecall to the psych unit will sort it out.

once in the psych unit, he will be seen by a consultant psychiatrist within 24 hours. they have the final say on whether he is kept in or not. there are a number of criteria that have to be met before someone can be detained against their will. im not gonna go into them here, because we've no way of knowing whether or not your brother meets them.

long story short, go to gp and start the ball rolling.

(i presume you are over 18 - if not, a sibling who is over 18 or a parent will have to sign teh form)

good luck, i hope things turn out ok.

cafecolour

It sounds like <snip>

Zaph

cafecolour, I know you mean well but we can't allow people to give online diagnoses here, it's a call only a trained mental health professional can make. However I will add the links you provided to the useful links sticky at the top of the forum, so thanks for those.

osullivem

Hi,

Sorry to hear your going through this, my mum did the same (thought the next door neighbours were after her and the device to stop it was on our pc) you must call the doc and he might reccommend to have your relative sectioned. I really hope things turn out ok. Do not be alarmed, things will be ok.

Overheal

You need to check Irish Law. I recall under florida law you can have someone involuntarily examined if you feel they have become a danger to themselves, or to others, or are self-neglectful as defined in the act. A GP or Psychiatrist would be most familiar with this and be able to advise you of any similar provision in Irish law.

My Aunt had severe chronic dymensia last summer and got Baker'd 4 times in a month. She wouldn't have been let go so many times except her emerged alter-ego was a conniving monster that worked hard to convince doctors she was fine before returning to madness when she got home.

osullivem

Overheal, we are in an irish jurisdiction here and i speak from both professional experience and academics. The right thing to do is consult your GP, they will understand. They will be able to give qualified proper advice on the situation. Again I hope all goes well... X

Overheal

osullivem wrote: »

Overheal, we are in an irish jurisdiction here and i speak from both professional experience and academics. The right thing to do is consult your GP, they will understand. They will be able to give qualified proper advice on the situation. Again I hope all goes well... X

Thats what I said: get the advice of a local GP.

Moomoo1

OP, there is no cure for this. My uncle had exactly the same symptoms: felt that the people on the TV were mocking him, that someone went through his things whilst he was away, that people disliked him and spat behind his back. And again, when people tried to disagree, he'd get violent. One day in 2007 it all got too much for him and he jumped out of the window - he was 58 and had been ill for over 40 years.

The only thing doctors could come up with for this were tranquilisers: but they only pacified, they didn't cure the problem.

sunzz

Jesus H Christ moomoo don't diagnose a persons problem and call in incurable judging by a few lines of what the op writes, there could be 100's of underlining reasons why the op's brother is acting like he is.

Best of luck phil, I'd follow the advice of visiting a gp and filling out the psych form.

Moomoo1

sometimes you can recognise the symptoms immediately...

but it is possible that that guy has a milder case of the illness, or even something totally different, I certainly hope so.

LegacyUser

Listen to Sam34. Very good post I think.
Your brother may end up being voluntarily admitted or involuntarily committed to hospital and I think either would be a really good thing for you and your family, preferably the former. If you have someone calm, strong and someone he respects who can encourage him to voluntarily admit himself it would be much better.

irish_bob

sam34 wrote: »

your brother needs psychiatric assessment.

go to his or your GP and say you want to make an application for assessment under the mental health act.

this request cannot be refused.

you will have to fill out a form, which the gp will have.

then, within 24 hours of you signing that form, the gp has to see your brother. dont worry if he wont go to the surgery, the gp will then have to arrange to go to him. it's not a choice, it's the law, so its up to the gp to get to see him.

if the gp agrees that he needs psych assessment, he will fill out another form.

you will than have to get your bro to the local psych unit. how this happens varies across the country. ideally, he would agree to go with you. some hospitals send out staff to bring people in, others use an agency located in naas (i think). in other areas the guards will help. your gp should know what the local policy is, or if he doesnt know a quick phonecall to the psych unit will sort it out.

once in the psych unit, he will be seen by a consultant psychiatrist within 24 hours. they have the final say on whether he is kept in or not. there are a number of criteria that have to be met before someone can be detained against their will. im not gonna go into them here, because we've no way of knowing whether or not your brother meets them.

long story short, go to gp and start the ball rolling.

(i presume you are over 18 - if not, a sibling who is over 18 or a parent will have to sign teh form)

good luck, i hope things turn out ok.

all very well but unfortunatley , unless someone is willing to be committed , its almost impossible to have them brought to a psychiatric unit against thier will , the law in this country regarding those who are not full right is extremley left leaning , the rights of the person who is not all there overide every single other consideration , the likes of sam will strongly disagree with me but i have experience with a cousin in this area , he has threatedned to kill his family , is a religous fanatic who believes the world is about to end and has turned on his neighbours several times , the guards plus doctors have been out to the house but his mum has been told their is nothing that can be done unless he is willing to seek help himself or unless he commits an act of violence against someone and then the situation enters the realm of criminality , the liberals own legislation when it comes to those who are not the full schilling in this country , the sad part is , they piously claim to defend the mentally unwell but end up hurting everyone , people are killed several times a year due to the fact that the mentally unwell cannot be touched in this country

brendan o donnell murdered a mother , her baby and a parish priest in county clare in 1994 , my mum was from beside that parish where it happened , he was notorious in his area but could not be touched

Wibbs

sunzz wrote: »

Jesus H Christ moomoo don't diagnose a persons problem and call in incurable judging by a few lines of what the op writes, there could be 100's of underlining reasons why the op's brother is acting like he is.

I agree. Moomoo1 please leave the assessment and prognosis to trained professionals that hopefully the OP gets access to. As sunzz said there could be any number of reasons along a wide spectrum of conditions, many of which are very treatable. I myself know a woman who many years ago had a complete psych break to a degree even more than the OP describes and she recovered fully.

amdublin

Talk to your GP. What you are describing is nothing new, they are trained professionals and deal with this all the time. He/she help will you, your mam and your brother in an least upsetting, sensitive manner as possible.

Your brother needs medical help in order to get better and your/his GP is first step in getting this.

Taltos

Definitely talk to the GP.

But - is there any possibility that with these feelings your brother could turn violent against the neighbour?
I know you said he is quiet etc - but if this is even a remote possibility then I think you have a responsibility to go to the local gardai and let them know of your concern. I know you want to protect your brother but your neighbour also needs to be protected.

sam34

irish_bob wrote: »

all very well but unfortunatley , unless someone is willing to be committed , its almost impossible to have them brought to a psychiatric unit against thier will

that sentence makes no sense - if someone is willing to be committed, they don't get committed - being committed means being admitted on an involuntary basis. if they are willing to be admitted, they get admitted voluntarily.

i'm not getting into protracted discussions about your cousin again.

however, i will repeat that in the last 2 years, over 4000 people have been admitted involuntarily (or committed) to psychiatric units in this country.
so your claims that they are not being dealt with are inaccurate.

OP, as i said in my original post, please talk to your GP and make an application under the Mental Health Act.

irish_bob

sam34 wrote: »

that sentence makes no sense - if someone is willing to be committed, they don't get committed - being committed means being admitted on an involuntary basis. if they are willing to be admitted, they get admitted voluntarily.

i'm not getting into protracted discussions about your cousin again.

however, i will repeat that in the last 2 years, over 4000 people have been admitted involuntarily (or committed) to psychiatric units in this country.
so your claims that they are not being dealt with are inaccurate.

OP, as i said in my original post, please talk to your GP and make an application under the Mental Health Act.

read my post again , i said unless someone is willing to be commited and i dont care about your statistics , i know what i know , ive actually spoken to my cousins GP about it recently and he is on message with everything i have said

Philomena

Thanks to everyone that took the time to reply. I have an older sister and she has helped and he is now getting the help that he needs.

Thank you all so much for your help

sam34

good to hear that philomena. i hope things work out well for him and the whole family.

opinion guy

Irish bob I'm not looking to debate the issue with you but a GP can't section anyone. Only a psychiatrist can. In fact it requires 2 psychiatrists to formally review and sign off on sectioning someone and they can do it if they feel the person is a danger to themselves or others

sam34

opinion guy wrote: »

Irish bob I'm not looking to debate the issue with you but a GP can't section anyone. Only a psychiatrist can. In fact it requires 2 psychiatrists to formally review and sign off on sectioning someone and they can do it if they feel the person is a danger to themselves or others

not strictly true.

definitely, a GP can't do it. they can only recommend that someone be assessed by a psychiatrist, and a person can be held in a psych unit for up to 24 hours pending this assessment.

but it only requires one consultant psychiatrist to sign the admission order after the assessment.

you might be thinking of a different scenario, where someone who is a voluntary patient in hospital wants to sign themselves out, but you have significant concerns about their safety or others safety if they do so. their treating consultant then initiates an involuntary order, but they will have a second opinion from anther consultant before tehy are formally detained.

of course, everyone who is actually detained will have a second opinion by an independent psychiatrist and will have an independent review at a tribunal (which has a third psychiatrist sitting on it) to review teh legal issues around the detention.

there are other circumstances in which someone can be detained, not just danger to self/others, but to get into them now would be going wildly off topic.

sam34

irish_bob wrote: »

read my post again , i said unless someone is willing to be commited and i dont care about your statistics , i know what i know , ive actually spoken to my cousins GP about it recently and he is on message with everything i have said

oh i know you dont care about statistics and facts - after all, they refute your claims about nobody being detained in this country.

acknowledging them would mean you couldnt go around spouting inaccuracies and sensationalist claims, based on the experience of one patient.

Nevyn

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Thaedydal