Barrister question

squeky · 29-10-2009 1:06pm #1

Is it normal for a barrister to ask you "how much do you want for your personal injuries?", as this happened to me and i told him that i cant make up a figure of how would i no what my injuries are worth! and i was pushed and pushed to give a figure, is this normal practice?

Is that not his job to know what im entitled to?

Any advice please thank you

McCrack · 29-10-2009 1:18pm

He will have a very good idea based on your medicals.

Gauging your expectations methinks.

It's quite normal.

Tom Young · 29-10-2009 1:23pm

If a case was being settled out of court and there was a figure stated by the other side within which you Barrister had to work he might ask you validly "what sort of level of compensation do you believe you are due?" you may be pressurised at that stage if a case was due on before a judge but it should not be undue pressure.

There are guidelines in place for PI claims as set down by PIAB, so yes.

These things are all circumstantial. Did you solicitor not intervene?

squeky · 29-10-2009 1:27pm

Im just not sure to be honest if it is right conduct, he asked me from the offset of settlement talks how much did i want, WHY did he do that, Is it not his job to tell me what they think in there opinion case is worth, ISINT that what they get paid for??

From day 1 solicitor and barrister saying this excellent case for personal injury, and this happens.

I asked him what do you think its worth in your opinion and he said i have a figure in my head but you wont get that, so i said WHY is that in your head then , he couldnt answer me and kept asking me what i want, really pushy with me and i felt very intimidated by it, if i wanted to fight the case myself i wouldnt have got a solicitor or barrister!

why should i be forced to put a figure on my case sure what would i know?

McCrack · 29-10-2009 1:29pm

He is gauging your expectations.

What is so difficult about that?

squeky · 29-10-2009 1:44pm

Tom Young wrote: »

If a case was being settled out of court and there was a figure stated by the other side within which you Barrister had to work he might ask you validly "what sort of level of compensation do you believe you are due?" you may be pressurised at that stage if a case was due on before a judge but it should not be undue pressure.

There are guidelines in place for PI claims as set down by PIAB, so yes.

These things are all circumstantial. Did you solicitor not intervene?

Tom,
It was just talks i was told at start, and yes a figure was stated by the other side but it was very unfair amount which is not unusual, so then my barrister asked me "What amount of money do you want" i didnt know what im entitled to with the injuries i have" Should he not have said "I think €€€€ is what you should be entitled to in my professional opinion" Isint that what he is getting paid for is to put a figure on your injuries, loss earnings etc...?

He kept telling me that he needs a figure of me and i didnt know what to tell him as what would i know i could have said a figure that was to low or to high?, I then said your making me very uncomfortable and got upset and he said i have to have a figure of you, I asked him what figure does he have in his head that he didnt tell me earlier until he spoke to other side and he said €€€ but then said you wouldnt get that!, so why had he it in his head then in first place?

I said i cant put a figure on it that i will let the judge decide what is fair, he didnt answer me and the whole time my own solicitor didnt open his mouth or intervene in any way to help me?

If the other side named a figure and i declined on that amount and i go into court, can the judge award less than what is on the table at the minute or is that the cut off point, it can go above the other side's offer or it can stay at that offer..

There are guidelines in place for PI claims as set down by PIAB, so yes. (What does that mean tom)

squeky · 29-10-2009 1:48pm

McCrack wrote: »

He is gauging your expectations.

What is so difficult about that?

I dont have expectations as i dont know what it is worth to go guessing,

TobyZiegler · 29-10-2009 1:51pm

Check out PIAB's Book of Quatum - its online as far as I know. You'll get an idea there. Your solicitor should probably go through it with you too if you ask him/her.

It is common practice for the barrister to ask what you expect.

squeky · 29-10-2009 1:51pm

McCrack wrote: »

He will have a very good idea based on your medicals.

Gauging your expectations methinks.

It's quite normal.

He didnt have a very good idea in his head! what he had in his head he siad i wouldnt get so whats that about, was he leaving me to make up a figure and then he try get that for me!!

squeky · 29-10-2009 1:53pm

TobyZiegler wrote: »

Check out PIAB's Book of Quatum - its online as far as I know. You'll get an idea there. Your solicitor should probably go through it with you too if you ask him/her.

It is common practice for the barrister to ask what you expect.

TobyZiegler,

Thanks for that but i have so many different problems that i didnt bother doing any of that and said i would leave it to the EXPERTS!!

McCrack · 29-10-2009 1:53pm

squeky wrote: »

I dont have expectations as i dont know what it is worth to go guessing,

Well that's what he wanted to establish. Most clients in my experience do have expectations (sometimes too low, often too high).

It's prudent for lawyers to establish this at the outset.

If you dont have any, well and good.

You just seem to have an attitude with this. Also you should be asking your solicitor other issues/questions you have asked here.

That's his/her job and part of why you instructed him/her.

squeky · 29-10-2009 2:02pm

McCrack wrote: »

Well that's what he wanted to establish. Most clients in my experience do have expectations (sometimes too low, often too high).

It's prudent for lawyers to establish this at the outset.

If you dont have any, well and good.

You just seem to have an attitude with this. Also you should be asking your solicitor other issues/questions you have asked here.

That's his/her job and part of why you instructed him/her.

McCrack, If my solicitor had told me that you may have to think what do you want from this regarding cash then i would have thought about it , but i was never told anything regarding how much case was worth ever from my solicitor so i didnt think about it, i just felt the barrister would put a figure on it and then let me know!

What do you mean by the attitude part, what other questions do i ask my solicitor?

dats_right · 29-10-2009 2:26pm

With all due respect OP, I find it incredible that you never once even had a ball-park figure in your head. In one post you say that you don't have any expectations and then you contradict yourself when you say that the other side made an offer of a "very unfair amount". If you had no expectation whatsoever then you could not consider it an unfair amount. Anyway, as other posters have saidf, your barrister was just trying to gauge what you consider in your head to be a fair amount, that's all! There really is no need to get so upset about it as it is entirely normal.

After all how would you feel if the barrister told you that he had settled your case for you for an amount he thought was fair but you had no input into and thought was grossly unfair? With the greatest respect OP, I can't help but get the feeling that you feel your role in the process as some sort of passenger and that your lawyers are running the show, this is not the case, you are the boss at the end of the day and you tell your lawyers what you want not the other way around. Therefore and quite obviously your barrister needs to know what you want before he can negotiate on your behalf, if you say something completely outrageously high well then your barrister will probably tell the other side that you are looking for X. They will laugh and say that for reasons, a,b and c that your case is only worth y(much lower than your figure). Your barrister will tell you that they have offered y, tell you that he does not think it enough but that z might be more appropriate and take your instructions and so on goes the horse trading until settlement is reached.

My advice OP is chill out a bit and to trust and follow the advice of your lawyers. If they ask you for a figure, have a little think about it and give them a figure, I mean it's not rocket science nor does it take weeks or even days of deliberation to come upon.

Reloc8 · 29-10-2009 3:22pm

squeky wrote: »

T I asked him what figure does he have in his head that he didnt tell me earlier until he spoke to other side and he said €€€ but then said you wouldnt get that!, so why had he it in his head then in first place?

I am utterly loathe to interpret a conversation between two people which I was not a party to, but it seems he did in fact tell you what was on his mind, but that he believed the other party would not offer that to you to settle the case. You seem to take issue with the fact that he asked you first for your instructions.

And eh...its not exactly mental to ask a client what do you want to settle your claim, in the course of a settlement meeting. You don't want him to run off an settle it for an amount that you arn't happy with now is he.

These are all questions best directed to your solicitor who was present during the meeting in the first instance, and through your solicitor to your barrister at another meeting or whatever.

jamesd · 29-10-2009 3:55pm

I can see where your coming from, I would have taught too that a barrister would tell you what the case would be worth as I taught it was his job and then he would go and bargain with the other side for you.
How are you to know how much a case is worth - isnt that part of the reason why you employed them? You have have an idea why youd like but they should be the ones telling you roughtly what they think the settlement might be worth.

MrMicra · 29-10-2009 4:56pm

If you've been injured and it wasn't your fault there is no reason to be herded into a low settlement. but you MUST ask your solicitor about the likelihood of a court awarding less than has been offered (not likely in practise). If you don't say what you want then nobody will know what you want.

The Barrister wants to get you as much money as possible but of course he wants to get things sorted out.

By sitting with your solicitor you can raise the issues that concern you and set your mind at ease. Ask your solicitor about the following:

There is a book of quantum that puts a cash value on your injuries.
What does the book of quantum say that these injuries are worth?

You have lost money from not being able to work.
How much have you lost?

You will lose out on future earnings.
How much will you lose out on?

You have spent money on medical care.
How much have you spent?

You will spend money on medical care.
How much will you spend?

You have been in pain and will be in pain in the future because of your injuries.
How much is this pain worth?

Was any part of your injury your own fault?
How much?
How much will you lose based on the part that was your own fault?

You have had nervousness, nightmares, paranoia because of your accident. How much is this worth?

MrMicra · 29-10-2009 5:08pm

squeky wrote: »

IFrom day 1 solicitor and barrister saying this excellent case for personal injury, and this happens.

They're only doing their jobs. It is your life but it is their job. You have nearly the same interests but not quite.

dats_right wrote: »

With all due respect OP, I find it incredible that you never once even had a ball-park figure in your head.

You're a solicitor have you never had a client who knew they were entitled to something but didn't know how much?

dats_right wrote: »

In one post you say that you don't have any expectations and then you contradict yourself when you say that the other side made an offer of a "very unfair amount". If you had no expectation whatsoever then you could not consider it an unfair amount.

The bargaining process around settlements is (as you know) emotional for the plaintiff or next friend and not emotional for the defendant (generally). The poster makes an emotional response.

Squeky talk to your solicitor. Communicate your expectations but ask him to go through the points I mentioned above.

Reloc8 · 29-10-2009 8:35pm

jamesd wrote: »

I can see where your coming from, I would have taught too that a barrister would tell you what the case would be worth as I taught it was his job and then he would go and bargain with the other side for you.
How are you to know how much a case is worth - isnt that part of the reason why you employed them? You have have an idea why youd like but they should be the ones telling you roughtly what they think the settlement might be worth.

I agree with all of what Mr. Micra has said above.

In relation to the bit in bold above...its also his job to get instructions from his client as to what the client wants.

Sequence :

1. They have offered x
2. client : that is pathetically unfair
3. barrister : how much are you looking for ?
4. client : as much as I can get - what is my case worth ?
5. barrister : answer my question
6. client : answer my question
repeat couple of times
7. eventually : barrister - well, I think it might be worth x but you are not going to be offered that much by this defendant. Now, how much are you looking for ?

Seems to me the eh dialogue between Counsel and client might have gotten bogged down a little bit perhaps for inter-personal reasons (yeah its the barristers job he works for me yadda yadda yadda but the barrister is entitled to instructions before he acts. Its a difficult balancing act sometimes and there are of course people involved, on both sides of the relationship). Equally if your requirements to settle the case are massively out of line with what's on offer, and you are not willing to modify them downwards, and the defendant will not modify upwards, there's no point in spending lengthy periods of (your) time going too and fro. Complete waste of time.

Anyway, again, Mr. Micra has it exactly right - get on to your solicitor with those concerns. On here you will probably get a degree of sympathy for feeling a little bit confused or even let down, but that's no use to you and equally a certain amount of people will consider that what happened is broadly unremarkable.

The point is, you have a sense of discontentment or perhaps feel even more strongly than that and you are entitled to have that addressed. The person to do so is your solicitor initially and then of course ask to meet with the barrister again.

As a final point for me, sending your barrister out with instructions to ask for 'as much as he can get' in a negotiation will quickly end the discussion with the other side.

squeky · 29-10-2009 9:33pm

MrMicra wrote: »

They're only doing their jobs. It is your life but it is their job. You have nearly the same interests but not quite.

You're a solicitor have you never had a client who knew they were entitled to something but didn't know how much?

The bargaining process around settlements is (as you know) emotional for the plaintiff or next friend and not emotional for the defendant (generally). The poster makes an emotional response.

Squeky talk to your solicitor. Communicate your expectations but ask him to go through the points I mentioned above.

Thank you Mr micra for your advise to me, i appreciate your help.. I will do that..

squeky · 29-10-2009 9:36pm

Thank you reloc8 and all for your responses..

JD24 · 30-10-2009 9:30am

dats_right wrote: »

Therefore and quite obviously your barrister needs to know what you want before he can negotiate on your behalf, if you say something completely outrageously high well then your barrister will probably tell the other side that you are looking for X

I agree with dats right. Your Barrister might have a figure in his head say €50,000. His purpose in asking you is to find out exactly what you want. If you then say to him you want €150,000... you see the point??

Johnny Utah · 30-10-2009 11:15am

The next time the barrister asks that question, put on a Dr Evil voice and say; "one million dollars!".

See here:

nuac · 30-10-2009 2:35pm

This poster has probably met for the first time his/her Senior Counsel. Some S.C's have rather large egos, and limted patience with clients. I am sometimes amused or amazed when they ask a Plaintiff in consultation to sum up a complicated position in three sentences.

Dealing as a solicitor with a Plaintiff's PI action I find there is plenty to do in getting the case to trial, especially compliance with SI 391 of 1998 and 2004 Act requirements. Tend to leave the valuation of the case to the wigs, but seek to arrange that this is discussed in an organised sitting-down-around-a-table consultation some days before the hearing rather than some hurried words in a corner of a courtroom just before the case is called.

The barrister will already have given an opinion on liability, and there may have been some effort to agree special damages. The barrister should indicate a range within which (s)he thinks the general damages will fall, and invite the client's comments on that.

It is unfair on a client to simply demand a figure plucked out of the clients imagination, or based on what the brother in law who worked once for an insurance company thinks or whatever.

squeky · 30-10-2009 3:58pm

nuac wrote: »

This poster has probably met for the first time his/her Senior Counsel. Some S.C's have rather large egos, and limted patience with clients. I am sometimes amused or amazed when they ask a Plaintiff in consultation to sum up a complicated position in three sentences.

Dealing as a solicitor with a Plaintiff's PI action I find there is plenty to do in getting the case to trial, especially compliance with SI 391 of 1998 and 2004 Act requirements. Tend to leave the valuation of the case to the wigs, but seek to arrange that this is discussed in an organised sitting-down-around-a-table consultation some days before the hearing rather than some hurried words in a corner of a courtroom just before the case is called.

The barrister will already have given an opinion on liability, and there may have been some effort to agree special damages. The barrister should indicate a range within which (s)he thinks the general damages will fall, and invite the client's comments on that.

It is unfair on a client to simply demand a figure plucked out of the clients imagination, or based on what the brother in law who worked once for an insurance company thinks or whatever.

Nuac,
Thank you for your post, you are dead right in the no patience part and demand an answer from a barrister, i was so stunned at this arrangement when it happened, i mightened have been shocked if a small private around the table meeting was arranged before hand and solicitor and barrister layed out the way they saw things, or even if my solicitor had went through things with me before these talks..and told me what to expect to happen or had even asked me what amount was i expecting..the valuation of the case but it was never ever mentioned to me. So like you say i was leaving it to the "WIGS" to decide that for me.

It seems very harsh to have some hurried words and demands in a corner and thats what hapened me esp when it going on a long time just dosent seem right,

Quote::The barrister should indicate a range within which (s)he thinks the general damages will fall, and invite the client's comments on that.

He had a figure in his head but when i pushed him for it, he responded and said "You wouldnt get what i have in my head" and still left me in mid Air, just dosent seem normal for him to do that!!

anyway nuac, thanks for getting back to me about this matter, im half afraid to go back to see solicitor and barrister now with way things happened but i suppose i will bite the bullet!! thank you

squeky · 30-10-2009 4:00pm

Johnny Utah wrote: »

The next time the barrister asks that question, put on a Dr Evil voice and say; "one million dollars!".

See here:

I should have done that and went with an outragous figure and see what would have happened!!!

thanks JD24

30-10-2009 10:24pm

squeky wrote: »

It seems very harsh to have some hurried words and demands in a corner and thats what hapened me esp when it going on a long time just dosent seem right

You've never been in the lobby outside the law library before have you?

If the case was going on that long then you must have been immensely detached to not have any sort of figure in your head. I assume this was pretty close to heading into court?

squeky · 31-10-2009 1:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You've never been in the lobby outside the law library before have you?

If the case was going on that long then you must have been immensely detached to not have any sort of figure in your head. I assume this was pretty close to heading into court?

My solicitor just wasnt doing his job properly i will say no more!!! yes i seemed to have been very detached from my own case but it will be sorted now!

Barrister question

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