the magic number of 40,000

corkthai

listening to the news the past couple of weeks and i keep hearing that a lot of people earn 40k or less. They are saying it as if its a small amount of money.
Am i missing something here or is this really a small amount of money ???

jimmmy

To a public servant its a small amount of money as its ten thousand euro a year less than the average public sector wage in Ireland. A lot of public servants get 40 k or more just as their pension.

To the rest of us - indeed most of us - 40,000 euro is a lot of money, and we get less than that for a years hard work.

To put things in perspective internationally, the average industrial wage in the worlds superpower, the US of A, a country with far greater industrial might and economy of scale than us, ( and incidentally where holidays + pensions + medical care is less ) is 41,000 dollars a year. Approx 27,500 euro.

ei.sdraob

corkthai wrote: »

listening to the news the past couple of weeks and i keep hearing that a lot of people earn 40k or less. They are saying it as if its a small amount of money.
Am i missing something here or is this really a small amount of money ???

average pay is 32K


if you count dole and other welfare benefits (medical, fuel, rent, children allowance etc etc) some families make more by sitting on dole than working at average jobs (above min wage)


like that family in Ennis with a pile of kids, where the husband is claiming benefits similar to what a person that gets 45K a year gets

ParkRunner

jimmmy wrote: »

To a public servant its a small amount of money as its ten thousand euro a year less than the average public sector wage in Ireland. A lot of public servants get 40 k or more just as their pension.

To the rest of us - indeed most of us - 40,000 euro is a lot of money, and we get less than that for a years hard work.

To put things in perspective internationally, the average industrial wage in the worlds superpower, the US of A, a country with far greater industrial might and economy of scale than us, ( and incidentally where holidays + pensions + medical care is less ) is 41,000 dollars a year. Approx 27,500 euro.

Can we include the 200,000 public sector workers who earn less than the average industrial wage as of 2007 in the group of people who consider €40k to be a lot of money?

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2009-10-21.751.0

jimmmy

EF wrote: »

Can we include the 200,000 public sector workers who earn less than the average industrial wage as of 2007 in the group of people who consider €40k to be a lot of money?

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2009-10-21.751.0

The governments own figures there are a bit misleading, as the 200,000 figure must include some part time workers . The same report says there are 49,747 ( out of your 200,000 ) public service workers earning less than 10,000 euro a year. They cannot be in full time employment, as the dole is more ? Are there really 50,000 public sector employees on less than two hundred euro a week gross wage, as your link says ?

Warfi

jimmmy wrote: »

To a public servant its a small amount of money as its ten thousand euro a year less than the average public sector wage in Ireland. A lot of public servants get 40 k or more just as their pension.

To the rest of us - indeed most of us - 40,000 euro is a lot of money, and we get less than that for a years hard work.

To put things in perspective internationally, the average industrial wage in the worlds superpower, the US of A, a country with far greater industrial might and economy of scale than us, ( and incidentally where holidays + pensions + medical care is less ) is 41,000 dollars a year. Approx 27,500 euro.

Eh what are you doing ranting off topic here? You're needed in the public sector are sick thread : P

Ooh, I just started a thread in the weather forum about how bad the weather is. You should go there and complain about how the public sector dragged all the clouds in, stole everyone's umbrellas, and then fecked off to Lanzarote in private jets.

Diarmuid

EF wrote: »

Can we include the 200,000 public sector workers who earn less than the average industrial wage as of 2007 in the group of people who consider €40k to be a lot of money?

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2009-10-21.751.0

Sure you can, as well as 70% of private sector PAYE workers

jimmmy

Warfi wrote: »

Eh what are you doing ranting off topic here? .

Instead of ranting off topic, do you think its ( 40k ) a small amount of money ?

Warfi

jimmmy wrote: »

Instead of ranting off topic, do you think its ( 40k ) a small amount of money ?

You were ranting off topic, don't try and fob it off on me

BennyLava

€40,000 is a lot of money to many workers in the private and public sectors

If you were to remove the top 10% from either sector, I would think you would get a truer reflection on what the "average" really is

and I bet taking them out it's a hell of a lot lower that €40,000

those at the top have screwed us all public and private, never forget that

as for those on the bottom, there are thousands of people with part time jobs in both sectors earning less that a pittance.

I think in reality the "average" figures been bandied about by politicians and the media are spin (for the politicians) and lazy journalism by the media,

nice_guy80

40K is a nice sum, on the face of it.

But how much are you left with after taxes, levies, PRSI? to name but a few. then add in all the stuff you kinda have to pay for. health insurance, union dues, life insurance.

ParkRunner

Diarmuid wrote: »

Sure you can, as well as 70% of private sector PAYE workers

That leaves 200,000 appox public sector workers to come up with €1.3bn and 30% of private sector workers to take any rise in higher income tax rates. Hardly fair?

jimmmy

nice_guy80 wrote: »

40K is a nice sum, on the face of it.

But how much are you left with after taxes, levies, PRSI? to name but a few. then add in all the stuff you kinda have to pay for. health insurance, union dues, life insurance.

Union dues ? You do not have to pay them. Many decades ago I was asked did I want to join a union and I did not. Why should you contribute to the bearded elite on 3 k a week plus pension ?

Gurgle

corkthai wrote: »

listening to the news the past couple of weeks and i keep hearing that a lot of people earn 40k or less. They are saying it as if its a small amount of money.
Am i missing something here or is this really a small amount of money ???

If you're 22 and living at home, its loads of money.
If you're 32 with a family and a mortgage, its absolutely fùck all.

jimmmy

Gurgle wrote: »

If you're 22 and living at home, its loads of money.
If you're 32 with a family and a mortgage, its absolutely fùck all.

There are plenty of people surviving on it. Its nearly one and a half times the average industrial wage in America. Nobody in the world owes us a living.

nice_guy80

don't compare Ireland to america. two totally different systems

jimmmy

nice_guy80 wrote: »

don't compare Ireland to america. two totally different systems

We are between Boston and Berlin. How come we are so out of kilter with both of them / both systems ? And is there another system in the world we are more comparable with so, in terms of pay etc ?

Gurgle

jimmmy wrote: »

There are plenty of people surviving on it. Its nearly one and a half times the average industrial wage in America. Nobody in the world owes us a living.

I don't live in fùcking America.

jimmmy

Neither do I. However, we are a small open economy ; we cannot expect to have the highest wages in the world unless we earn them, which we clearly do not as the country is borrowing so much / in debt.

musky

how the hell do 'they' come up with the average wage.

I have never earned over 30K (and i have industry relevant professional qualifications), i know people who are stuck on 22k, 23k jobs and have been for years and who now are being made redundant and receiving wage cuts.

I would consider 40k a fortune, no well i would consider the euromillions a fortune (please god just this once - even a tenth of it would do me )

jimmmy

musky wrote: »

how the hell do 'they' come up with the average wage.

Computerisation, income tax receipts etc. The government should know the average wage in the public service by dividing what it pays out in wages by its number of employees. Its currently 9 hundred and seventy something a week, or so they say. You could arge it may be out a euro or two either way ; that does not matter.

musky wrote: »

I have never earned over 30K (and i have industry relevant professional qualifications), i know people who are stuck on 22k, 23k jobs and have been for years and who now are being made redundant and receiving wage cuts.

I know people in the private sector with 3rd level, on the same sort of money as you, and classmates from school who studied less / achieved less academically, now in the public sector on much bigger wages, 3 foreign holidays a year, less hours worked, nice pension to look forward to, a "sickie" + flexitime culture, etc

Riskymove

musky wrote: »

I have never earned over 30K (and i have industry relevant professional qualifications), i know people who are stuck on 22k, 23k jobs and have been for years and who now are being made redundant and receiving wage cuts.

I would consider 40k a fortune,

this is another example of the problem of all debate being around averages, it means very little to individuals

by definition there are many people who will earn less than the average for their profession, just as there will be many who earn more

by continuing to interpret "average" as "frequent" or "usual" or whatever, this confusion will continue