Driving bans in Ireland will to also apply in Britain from next year

the_syco

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/16733493/?view=Standard
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/driving-bans-in-ireland-will-to-also-apply-in-britain-from-next-year-1927302.html
http://www.herald.ie/breaking-news/national-news/driving-bans-in-ireland-will-to-also-apply-in-britain-from-next-year-1927302.html

Motorists who have been disqualified from driving in either Britain or Ireland will be banned from roads in both jurisdictions from next February, it was confirmed today.
The pioneering deal is the result of years of negotiations between civil servants in both countries.
British drivers disqualified for an offence in the Republic will no longer escape that punishment when they return home.
Similarly, disqualifications imposed on Irish drivers while in Britain will be recognised and enforced when they return to the Republic.

About time, to be honest. Hope this stops the yellow & white regged cars from ignoring the speed lmits (and vice-versa up north).

MagicMarker

I'm not sure I agree with this, this is two different countries we're talking about, I don't see why this should be brought into effect.

L1011

the_syco wrote: »

About time, to be honest. Hope this stops the yellow & white regged cars from ignoring the speed lmits (and vice-versa up north).

That'll require points to be shared, this is just driving bans.

KamiKazi

I would agree with driving infractions being carried across all EU countries. I do not agree with them only being carried between UK and Ireland.

netwhizkid

We are a sovereign nation and minor offenses such as speeding tickets in the Republic should have no effect on you in the United Kingdom and vice versa. This is just the begining of the day when Ireland is just a state of the EU like NY is in the United States, people however are too thick and stupid to realise this and parade blindly into the abyss.

L1011

netwhizkid wrote: »

We are a sovereign nation and minor offenses such as speeding tickets in the Republic should have no effect on you in the United Kingdom and vice versa. This is just the begining of the day when Ireland is just a state of the EU like NY is in the United States, people however are too thick and stupid to realise this and parade blindly into the abyss.

Do you apply the same logic to driving licences? Stop at the border and sit a DLVNI driving test to be allowed continue?

netwhizkid

MYOB wrote: »

Do you apply the same logic to driving licences? Stop at the border and sit a DLVNI driving test to be allowed continue?

No, but carrying your infractions from one country to another makes no sense, every different country has different road infrastructures and styles of driving. What may have gotten you into trouble in EU member state maybe considered normal in another. Penalties should stay within National borders.

L1011

netwhizkid wrote: »

No, but carrying your infractions from one country to another makes no sense, every different country has different road infrastructures and styles of driving. What may have gotten you into trouble in EU member state maybe considered normal in another. Penalties should stay within National borders.

Surely if every country has different road infrastructures and styles of driving your licence shouldn't be valid in other countries though?

Your argument and my 'argument' are exactly the same thing. If you want an Irish licence to let you drive in the UK, accept that your Irish licence will get stung for getting caught in the UK.

CreepingDeath

netwhizkid wrote: »

Penalties should stay within National borders.

Do you drive on the M1 up to the North much ?
Those "English" reg BMW's fly past at 130kph+ on the Irish section.
And I admit that I don't feel quite as constrained on the Northern side of the border. This should help curtail both simple speeding and the more dangerous drivers who have already been banned. I see this as a border issue. In fact I'd be all for an EU points sharing system. It would stop tourists/immigrants from being immune from the points system.

netwhizkid

MYOB wrote: »

Surely if every country has different road infrastructures and styles of driving your licence shouldn't be valid in other countries though?

Your argument and my 'argument' are exactly the same thing. If you want an Irish licence to let you drive in the UK, accept that your Irish licence will get stung for getting caught in the UK.

It makes no sense and makes a mockery of our Independence from the United Kingdom, at this rate we may aswell adopt yellow plates here and go back to Miles altogether.

jhegarty

Would you not be entitled to a day in court before you are put off the road in Ireland ?

I can't see how a English judge could constitutionally have that power.

Podge_irl

jhegarty wrote: »

I can't see how a English judge could constitutionally have that power.

I don't think the constitution guarantees the right to a driving license...

It makes no sense and makes a mockery of our Independence from the United Kingdom

Yes, choosing to decide that those banned from driving in the UK probably shouldn't be driving here either is a massive loss of independence. Presumably extraditing people for crimes committed in the UK is something you're also against?

Our man in Havana

I expect the courts on both sides of the border to be busy debating this for years to come.
In the meantime all cases will have to be placed on hold pending the outcomes of constitutionality appeals in the supreme court.

Nick Freeman must be rubbing his hands with glee.

JHMEG

netwhizkid wrote: »

It makes no sense and makes a mockery of our Independence from the United Kingdom, at this rate we may aswell adopt yellow plates here and go back to Miles altogether.

Tally ho!

jhegarty

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think the constitution guarantees the right to a driving license...

No, but it gives a right to a trail in an Irish court.

The guards can't take your license , either can your td , how can a judge in London have that power ?

Podge_irl

jhegarty wrote: »

No, but it gives a right to a trail in an Irish court.

The guards can't take your license , either can your td , how can a judge in London have that power ?

No idea, but I would have thought legislation could be brought in to cover it - no doubt the reason it took so long to arrange was because they were trying to figure out how to do it. I'm no lawyer though so I could equally be talking crap.

MagicMarker

Wait a sec, if you're banned from driving in Ireland then you can't drive in England anyway, because you're licence would be revoked.

So does this mean if you're banned in Ireland, you will be illegible for a British driving licence? And how would they enforce that?

Or does this just apply to people who have no licence, who are chancing their arm using an invalid licence in the UK?

L1011

MagicMarker wrote: »

Wait a sec, if you're banned from driving in Ireland then you can't drive in England anyway, because you're licence would be revoked.

So does this mean if you're banned in Ireland, you will be illegible for a British driving licence? And how would they enforce that?

Or does this just apply to people who have no licence, who are chancing their arm using an invalid licence in the UK?

It means that you can't go to the UK and do their driving test and get their licence. Its already illegal to hold two EEA licences in the same category as it stands, but if you're banned I don't think you're classed as 'holding' one.

Or presumably the theorethical case of being stopped, charged, prosecuted and banned while in the UK on an Irish licence, you could just return home and continue driving at the moment.

Theta

The articles say if you are Irish and get banned in the UK and go home you will be banned in Ireland but it almost sounds like if you are Irish and banned in Ireland it grand if you go to the UK.

me_right_one

About time. It should be Europe-wide anyway.

mdebets

I don't understand this.
Does this mean that driving bans can be applied to Irish driving licenses in Britain and British ones in Ireland?
Or does this mean that people with Irish driving licenses that were banned in Ireland are also banned in Britain and the other way around.
If it is the later, I don't understand how this didn't work up to now? Don't you have to physical hand in your license once you are banned (at least in Germany I know, you have to do this)?

Theta

I think in Ireland when you get banned you have to present your licence, its not actually removed from you. Or else I thought I read in the paper they were giving out that the 5-0 was not removing it from them.

TheNog

irlmarc wrote: »

I think in Ireland when you get banned you have to present your licence, its not actually removed from you. Or else I thought I read in the paper they were giving out that the 5-0 was not removing it from them.

If I remember correctly the licence must be presented to the District Court Clerk or the local Council Authority by the driver who is disqaulified. The Gardai do not take it from the driver

MeganHayes

MYOB wrote: »

That'll require points to be shared, this is just driving bans.

:rolleyes:

First step on a slippery slope.

Theta

TheNog wrote: »

If I remember correctly the licence must be presented to the District Court Clerk or the local Council Authority by the driver who is disqaulified. The Gardai do not take it from the driver

Yes thats it but many people who were being banned were just not presenting there licence and still driving. The Gardai should be removing them from them.

Our man in Havana

And those using the old duplicate licence trick.

aoidan

Whats the penalty for using the old duplicate licence trick?

Esel

Someone should alert Run to da Hills about this thread. :eek:

me_right_one

Bond-007 wrote: »

And those using the old duplicate licence trick.

Whats that?

Our man in Havana

A person who may get banned in the future, makes a false report that they lost their licence and they obtain a duplicate licence. They keep the original licence safe. When they get banned they hand in the duplicate licence. They still have the original licence which they keep driving with after they get banned.

Matt1983

MYOB wrote: »

That'll require points to be shared, this is just driving bans.

Hi just to clarify for myself. I'm currently banned from driving for 2yrs in ROI and hold Irish licence which I still have in my possession and has not been endorsed as of yet, is there anyway I can legally drive in UK either by the Irish licence or getting English one? e.g any legal way around it etc??
Any helpful comments or answers greatly appreciated. Thanks

Our man in Havana

No. You are banned from driving.

Esel

Matt1983 wrote: »

Hi just to clarify for myself. I'm currently banned from driving for 2yrs in ROI and hold Irish licence which I still have in my possession and has not been endorsed as of yet, is there anyway I can legally drive in UK either by the Irish licence or getting English one? e.g any legal way around it etc??
Any helpful comments or answers greatly appreciated. Thanks

Afaik, the ban period does not start until you actually have the licence endorsed. You would be well advised to confirm this yourself.

Our man in Havana

Nope. The ban starts the moment the judge passes sentence but can be stayed by an appeal. Failing to hand in the licence makes no difference.

Matt1983

Haddockman wrote: »

Nope. The ban starts the moment the judge passes sentence but can be stayed by an appeal. Failing to hand in the licence makes no difference.

But i spoke to Tax office and they said that licence needs to be handed up to get it endorsed which is a stamp on it for 3 yrs but this does no begin until the ban is served and its really only for insurance puposes. What is the story with this?

Run_to_da_hills

How long before this will all spread to non traffic offenses.

Welcome the Euro police state and thanks again to all those that voted Lisbon. :rolleyes:

AugustusMinimus

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

How long before this will all spread to non traffic offenses.

Welcome the Euro police state and thanks again to all those that voted Lisbon. :rolleyes:

1. Where in the Lisbon Treaty does it saying anything about pan-EU driving bans ?

2. Why are you even mentioning the EU when this is a bi-lateral agreement between Ireland and the UK ?

L1011

Matt1983 wrote: »

But i spoke to Tax office and they said that licence needs to be handed up to get it endorsed which is a stamp on it for 3 yrs but this does no begin until the ban is served and its really only for insurance puposes. What is the story with this?

Thats the endorsement part of the punishment.

If you tried to exchange the piece of paper you have that no longer connects to a valid driver file in the UK, they wouldn't issue you with a UK licence as they check. This has been the case for years

Additionally, if you got a UK licence via the provisional, theory test, full test route you'd still be banned in both countries under this bilateral deal.

seamus

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

How long before this will all spread to non traffic offenses.

Not soon enough.

They should look at interlinking the ANPR systems now so that we can catch uninsured/untaxed UK drivers and the UK cops can do the same.

Matt1983

MYOB wrote: »

Thats the endorsement part of the punishment.

If you tried to exchange the piece of paper you have that no longer connects to a valid driver file in the UK, they wouldn't issue you with a UK licence as they check. This has been the case for years

Additionally, if you got a UK licence via the provisional, theory test, full test route you'd still be banned in both countries under this bilateral deal.

Also as I'm not due back on road until oct 2012 would it be in my best interest to hand up licence now or should I wait closer to time I'm back on road to get it endorsed? Licence is handy for I.D but if better for when I get back on road I would hand up now..what are pitfalls of not handying up now??
Finally if I was disqualified for 2 years straight at what stage can I appeal if possible at all?
Appreciate comments so far.

O Tuathail

TheNog wrote: »

If I remember correctly the licence must be presented to the District Court Clerk or the local Council Authority by the driver who is disqaulified. The Gardai do not take it from the driver

Hmmm like an endorsement, if you dont hand your license in for 10 yrs after the court order was made against you, that endorsement will never expire until it serves the full term of the endorsement on your license. But i wonder when baned from driving, if you dont hand your license into the District Court Clerk, dose the date of the ban go from the day of the court order against you or the date you hand it into the Court Clerk??

scoobymunster

Damnit, I only realised after I had read the first page that this was an old topic:mad:

ResearchWill

O Tuathail wrote: »

Hmmm like an endorsement, if you dont hand your license in for 10 yrs after the court order was made against you, that endorsement will never expire until it serves the full term of the endorsement on your license. But i wonder when baned from driving, if you dont hand your license into the District Court Clerk, dose the date of the ban go from the day of the court order against you or the date you hand it into the Court Clerk??

From the date of the court order, this comes up every now and again in restoration cases where the person never handed up the license, I have seen restorations where the license was only endorsed the week before the hearing to restore. It also comes up where the person had a learners permit which experied and lost, no license to endorse, usual order is to restore license with undertaking to endorse when they get new one.

TestTransmission

No need to drag up old threads