Road Markings

greyc

This has been bothering me for a while and I'm not sure what's the right way to deal with it. You know the horizontal road markings, I think they're called hatch markings which your not supposed to enter.

What happens if your turning right and all the spaces are taken by cars waiting to turn and your only option is to go on to the hatch markings or stay in the left lane. If you do this you'll probably be blocking traffic going straight ahead, so what's the right thing to do?

biko

The markings are there to protect cars turning right and you should not enter the area.
I'd say to stay in the left lane until traffic moves off and you can drive in to the turning lane, even if it means you are blocking traffic. Just stop, indicate and sit there



*My opinion, I'd don't have a law book here

theocn

I think you'd have to use common sense. Where possible you should stay clear of the hatch markings, but I don't think you should block traffic by doing so.

Near where I live there's a junction with traffic lights. The left lane is for going straight, the right lane for turning right, and the road markings allow 3 cars in the turning lane before the hatch markings start, but there's usually 5 or 6 cars turning.

When the lights go green, a straight ahead arrow comes on for the left lane, but the right lane still has a red light, so right turning traffic can't move.

If you were to stay in the left lane you'd block all the traffic going straight and would cause mayhem.

I know the road markings are there for safety, but surely that's more important at a junction which isn't controlled by traffic lights, so that if cars are stopped waiting to turn right no one is going to rear end them.

Dankoozy

rly? i always thought going on those was a grade 3

dudara

For your test, be aware that you can drive over hatch markings that have a dashed line around them - just as is present outside the Rathgar test centre. (I should add that I do mean drive over, I don't know about stopping).

You can't however drive over hatch markings with a solid line outside them.

Your question is tricky. Once you do have your license, I would say pull over. However, when doing your test, I would say wait to enter the clear area, but be as far over to the right as is possible.

brian076

This is a tricky one alright and I'd be interested to hear the views of some of the other instructors who contribute here. The ROR state that you must not enter these areas, but as a previous poster said, there are times when not entering the hatched markings would cause inconvenience to other road users, and in fact could be considered dangerous.

There's also the possibility that you may not even see the hatched markings on approach. If for example there's a queue of vehicles turning right at a junction and the last car is covering the end of the markings when you pull up behind him. What do you do when he moves forward and you suddenly realise you're driving in an area where the ROR state you shouldn't be.

Do you continue on, or signal left, wait for all the traffic in the left lane to pass, while holding up traffic behind waiting to turn right, then once you're in the left lane signal right again and wait to move back over while again holding up traffic in the left lane.

I'm not sure that any tester would expect you to do this, so it begs the question, if it's ok to drive across hatched markings in the above scenario, can you move onto them when turning right, if the alternative means you cause an obstruction on the road. I think common sense has to prevail.

Not all entries or instructions in the ROR are accurate, and I think this is one of them. So it clearly states that you must not enter the hatched markings at any time So what would happen if a vehicle was broken down in the left lane and the only way to get around it is to drive on the hatched markings.

It also says in the ROR that you must not cross a continuous white line, except in emergency or to gain access But makes no mention of crossing one to avoid an obstruction.

DrivingInfo

This is a little hard to explain.

You should not drive on hatch markings in normal situations.

If you have a car parked on the left and the only way around is the drive on hatch markings, well then you can do so ONLY if it is safe to do so.

You do not stop on hatch marking to let traffic behind pass. If we were allowed to do this why or what would be the point of hatch marking? Hatch markings are advance warning of a turning right lane but they also divide two turning right lanes into one lane.

I hope i have explained this well.

Regards

brian076

DrivingInfo wrote: »

This is a little hard to explain.

You should not drive on hatch markings in normal situations.

If you have a car parked on the left and the only way around is the drive on hatch markings, well then you can do so ONLY if it is safe to do so.

You do not stop on hatch marking to let traffic behind pass. If we were allowed to do this why or what would be the point of hatch marking? Hatch markings are advance warning of a turning right lane but they also divide two turning right lanes into one lane.

I hope i have explained this well.

Regards

Totally agree with everything you say, but I'd be interested on your take on the scenario I mentioned, because it happens quite often on the Tallaght test route. (ie Hatch marking may be obscured by vehicles ahead turning right).

DrivingInfo

brian076 wrote: »

Totally agree with everything you say, but I'd be interested on your take on the scenario I mentioned, because it happens quite often on the Tallaght test route. (ie Hatch marking may be obscured by vehicles ahead turning right).

The tester would "or they should" let the learner away with that, because they could not see the hatch markings.

If the driver can see the hatch markings, they should not drive on them.

I had an issue where the road marking were faded and the learner went over them and as you say

There's also the possibility that you may not even see the hatched markings on approach.

when this happens so many people think they have failed when they notice the hatch markings.

We can only help best we can.

brian076

DrivingInfo wrote: »

The tester would "or they should" let the learner away with that, because they could not see the hatch markings.

If the driver can see the hatch markings, they should not drive on them.

I had an issue where the road marking were faded and the learner went over them and as you say

when this happens so many people think they have failed when they notice the hatch markings.

We can only help best we can.

I've always instructed pupils not to block following traffic and if that means driving onto hatched markings so be it. I've never had a pupil marked for it on test.

DrivingInfo

brian076 wrote: »

I've always instructed pupils not to block following traffic and if that means driving onto hatched markings so be it. I've never had a pupil marked for it on test.

Brian Its the RoTR and the tester can fail your pupils if they want.
Also as you pointed out it depends on the situation as well.
In the test centre where you are working the testers may allow it for a particular junction but that is only an exception.
It can result in a grade 3 fault so be careful.

Regards

brian076

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Brian Its the RoTR and the tester can fail your pupils if they want.
Also as you pointed out it depends on the situation as well.
In the test centre where you are working the testers may allow it for a particular junction but that is only an exception.
It can result in a grade 3 fault so be careful.

Regards

Again I agree with you, but the ROR says you must never drive onto hatched markings, no exceptions, however we've already establshed that this is impossible to do if the road is blocked, so the ROR is not set in stone.

Just as a further point, when I was testing, I occasionally directed applicants onto hatched markings if I felt that they were blocking following traffic, on many of these occasions I was accompanied by a supervisor from the RSA, and they never mentioned or queried it on the post test debrief.

I can well imagine though, that some testers may take a different view and it's definitely a grey area.

IMO, it's far safer to sit in a line of right turning traffic even if that means driving on hatched markings, than sitting in the path of possibly speeding traffic in the left lane, which in all likelyhood will provoke road rage.

2010

Originally Posted by brian076
I've always instructed pupils not to block following traffic and if that means driving onto hatched markings so be it. I've never had a pupil marked for it on test.

I do the same myself brian

I pulled this From an extended version of the rsa fault marking guidelines

Were an applicant has a reasonable opportunity to comply with chevron or hatch markings but does not do so a fault should be recorded for road markings

HOWEVER were traffic and road conditions make this impractical for an applicant to comply with the road marking a fault should not be recorded when an applicant does drives over them

brian076

2010 wrote: »

I do the same myself brian

I pulled this From an extended version of the rsa fault marking guidelines

Were an applicant has a reasonable opportunity to comply with chevron or hatch markings but does not do so a fault should be recorded for road markings

HOWEVER were traffic and road conditions make this impractical for an applicant to comply with the road marking a fault should not be recorded when an applicant does drives over them

Thanks for that, it definitely makes sense.

DrivingInfo

Hi Brian

This is from the marking guidelines given out to ADI Instructors,

Were an applicant has a reasonable opportunity to comply with chevron or hatch markings but does not do so a fault should be recorded for road markings

Now the question is, why?

Because we have to allow that our pupils may do tests in any part of the country and not just in a built up area. In a country test centre if you drive on hatch markings when the road is not very busy you will get marked.

Don't get me wrong I do agree with you and 2010. Because this is what makes it hard to explain. The problem is "it so depends on the situation".

I think both of you will agree with the above i will be very surprised if you don't.

Regards

brian076

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Hi Brian

This is from the marking guidelines given out to ADI Instructors, Now the question is, why?

Because we have to allow that our pupils may do tests in any part of the country and not just in a built up area. In a country test centre if you drive on hatch markings when the road is not very busy you will get marked.

Don't get me wrong I do agree with you and 2010. Because this is what makes it hard to explain. The problem is "it so depends on the situation".

I think both of you will agree with the above i will be very surprised if you don't.

Regards

Yes I think both points are right, and as you say it depends on the situation.

jaffa20

This actually happened to me in the test. I would always move into them in normal circumstances to avoid obstructing traffic, it's common sense anyway.

But as per rotr, i did not do this on the test and waited to the left and indicated until it was clear. i got a grade 2 for this and the test explained at the end that i should have moved in and not obstructed traffic.

Anyway, thank god it wasn't a grade 3 and i passed. I guess the instructor saw the rotr weren't always right in this case, he was cool anyway.

He was right i think because common sense must prevail in everyday life, a rule book cannot always be applied.