Estate Agent demanding payment when I sold directly

ev612337

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has some advice for the following situation:

We had our home on the market with a local estate agent for almost 1 year. In that time the agent had brought one party to view the house and it came to nothing, mainly down to the hugely lacking professionalism of the agents employee who escorted the prospective buyers on their tour IMHO.

Anyway, in frustration at the lack of action or interest, my wife and I took it upon ourselves to take on the sale of our home directly and privately. We took a premium advert on daft.ie and we took our own pictures far better than the estate agents. We left the agent with his sign in our garden and our home for sale in his store window. However, we never heard from the agent and had just the one viewing as mentioned. Once we took the sale on directly, we generated several viewings and some serious interest. One of the interested parties actually made us an offer which we accepted and we sold the home and moved on to our new home.

In turn, the estate agent finally (after about 10 months from our "move-out date") came sniffing around and realising that we'd sold the home, started getting active - sending us bills and demands for moneys. Our postal mail is forwarded to our new home, so we get the letters. However, the agent is sending to the old address and does not seem to know where we moved to...

My query is, what grounds does an estate agent have to demand any moneys when they did not achieve the sale and had nothing to do with it.

For the purposes of this issue, let me explain that I wrote to the agent after just a few weeks of them taking on the home for sale telling them that I was not prepared to accept their terms (exclusivity and so on) and that I would actively seek a buyer myself and in such a case, they were not in the picture as regards any fees etc. They acknowledged and agreed to this in writing by reply.

The reason for my concern is that they have now written (again to the old home address) to us threatening to appoint a debt collector and warning us about how this can affect our credit rating!!! The moneys concerned relate to their outlay on advertising. So, in terms of significance, the amount is irrelevant. I am stubborn and I do not see why I should pay them for speculating and losing. They took a punt and if they were successful they would have pocketed over 6000 Euro in commission fees, but they were not successful and so they lose.

I sold the house directly and privately and after much effort on my part. They made no effort, but now expect ME to pay for their dire attempts. Does anyone know what I should do? I am currently ignoring the correspondence as they have not sent any to my new address, suggesting that they do not know my new address. The An Post mail forwarding service expires in mid-November so maybe then they'll feck off when mail is bounced back to them? Who knows?

Thanks in advance for your opinions and advice

Hootanany

ev612337 wrote: »

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has some advice for the following situation:

We had our home on the market with a local estate agent for almost 1 year. In that time the agent had brought one party to view the house and it came to nothing, mainly down to the hugely lacking professionalism of the agents employee who escorted the prospective buyers on their tour IMHO. Anyway, in frustration at the lack of action or interest, my wife and I took it upon ourselves to take on the sale of our home directly and privately. We took a premium advert on daft.ie and we took our own pictures far better than the estate agents. We left the agent with his sign in our garden and our home for sale in his store window. However, we never heard from the agent and had just the one viewing as mentioned. Once we took the sale on directly, we generated several viewings and some serious interest. One of the interested parties actually made us an offer which we accepted and we sold the home and moved on to our new home. In turn, the estate agent finally (after about 10 months from our "move-out date") came sniffing around and realising that we'd sold the home, started getting active - sending us bills and demands for moneys. Our postal mail is forwarded to our new home, so we get the letters. However, the agent is sending to the old address and does not seem to know where we moved to... My query is, what grounds does an estate agent have to demand any moneys when they did not achieve the sale and had nothing to do with it. For the purposes of this issue, let me explain that I wrote to the agent after just a few weeks of them taking on the home for sale telling them the I was not prepared to accept their terms and that I would actively seek a buyer myself and in such a case, they were not in the picture as regards any fees etc. They acknowledged and agreed to this in writing by reply. The reason for my concern is that they have now written (again to the old home address) to us threatening to appoint a debt collector and warning us about how this can affect our credit rating! The moneys concerned relate to their outlay on myhome.ie and total just over 300 Euro. So, in terms of significance, the amount is irrelevant. I am stubborn and I do not see why I should pay them for speculating and losing. They took a punt and if they were successful they would have pocketed over 6000 Euro in commission fees, but they were not successful and so they lose. I sold the house directly and privately and after much effort on my part. They made no effort, but now expect ME to pay for their dire attempts. Does anyone know what I should do? I am currently ignoring the correspondence as they have not sent any to my new address, suggesting that they do not know my new address. The An Post mail forwarding service expires in mid-November so maybe then they'll feck off when mail is bounced back to them? Who knows?

Thanks in advance for your opinions and advice

They did not sell it nuff said

goodburger

a few paragraphs would have made the story much more easier to read...... husband!!!!!

Ste.phen

Generally, you pay for their myhome/daft fees regardless of whether or not they sell the house.
When i saw the title I thought they were going after you for the 1.5% or something.

I imagine you probably do owe them the advertising costs, but i'd make sure the're not inflating it.

Thoie

I'd agree with Ste.phen. You know how much the Daft ad cost, so you have an idea if the charges are reasonable. I'd consider it reasonable to pay for the advertising, and perhaps the cost of the sign n the garden and maybe a few quid for, say, an hour or so of their time.

They can't affect your credit rating unless they take you to court for the debt.

dudara

What contract etc did you sign with them? They may well be entitled to recoup some costs from you.

Your credit rating cannot be affected unless they succeed in having a court judgement made against you. They probably don't have many sources of income right now and therefore they've decided to chase you.

Cabaal

To be honest it depends what the Terms & Conditions of the contract with the agent said, if you did not like these terms you should not have agreed to them.

Affecting your credit rating is bull**** as they can't do this without taking you to court and unless its a decent amount of money they are unlikely to do this

penexpers

They are entitled to their advertising costs.

Enii

ev612337 wrote: »

Hi All,






The moneys concerned relate to their outlay on advertising. So, in terms of significance, the amount is irrelevant. I am stubborn and I do not see why I should pay them for speculating and losing.



Thanks in advance for your opinions and advice

Did you agree to paying for advertising. This is normally charged, regardless of a sale or not......

Miaireland

Check your contract. You probably do owe them money. I had two estate agents selling my house but sold it myself and had to pay both of them.

silly1

Miaireland wrote: »

Check your contract. You probably do owe them money. I had two estate agents selling my house but sold it myself and had to pay both of them.

Pay exactly what to both of them Commission? Advertising fees? other? & what exactly did you agree with each agent.

Miaireland

Advertising and other bits and pieces. It was all stated out in the contracts I signed so can't complain.l

the_syco

ev612337 wrote: »

For the purposes of this issue, let me explain that I wrote to the agent after just a few weeks of them taking on the home for sale telling them that I was not prepared to accept their terms (exclusivity and so on) and that I would actively seek a buyer myself and in such a case, they were not in the picture as regards any fees etc. They acknowledged and agreed to this in writing by reply.

The reason for my concern is that they have now written (again to the old home address) to us threatening to appoint a debt collector and warning us about how this can affect our credit rating!!! The moneys concerned relate to their outlay on advertising.

Are they looking to recoup the amount for advertising? As you have done an ad on daft yourself, you'll know the cosst of that, and if they are telling fibs or not. If it's only a small fee, pay it, but if they're trying to screw you, photocopy the letter they sent to you,, and send the copy back to them.

smelltheglove

I was in a similar situation a while back, an agent brought numerous visitors to my house but the agent in charge suffered an illness and was out of work for a fair amount of time, after almost 6 months on the market I heard nothing as they never transferred the sale of my house to anyone else. I went with another agent and sold within 2 months. The first agent wrote to me and called me asking for advertising costs which I declined to pay as they did not produce on their side of the deal, end of.

AARRRGH

smelltheglove wrote: »

The first agent wrote to me and called me asking for advertising costs which I declined to pay as they did not produce on their side of the deal, end of.

That seems a bit unreasonable tbh. I personally would pay their advertising costs.

smelltheglove

AARRRGH wrote: »

That seems a bit unreasonable tbh. I personally would pay their advertising costs.

Had they tried to sell the house yes, no problem, but they didnt, they never returned my call
s when I asked who was assigned to the sale, I had friends call and enquire about the house and they were never given any return calls. The sign fell down numerous times and the agents would not come and fix it, so in the end I had no choice but to sell elsewhere, the whole time I was waiting to finalise details on my new house and ended up having to move and leave my old house vacant for well over 2 months. All down to the agents failure to deliver on their contract.

Davidth88

I am shocked.......

So you engage an estate agent , they don't sell the house , then they want money . And people here think that's ok , even their advertising costs.

no no no

They didn't sell the house. Commision is just that , commision for selling something , they didn't do it. Any cost occured in them not carrying out their duty is their problem isn't it ?

However what it says in any contract you may have signed might be something different.

OP , find any contract you signed , and speak to a law person.

amcalester

Davidth88 wrote: »

I am shocked.......

So you engage an estate agent , they don't sell the house , then they want money . And people here think that's ok , even their advertising costs.

no no no

They didn't sell the house. Commision is just that , commision for selling something , they didn't do it. Any cost occured in them not carrying out their duty is their problem isn't it ?

However what it says in any contract you may have signed might be something different.

OP , find any contract you signed , and speak to a law person.

Most contracts will state that advertising costs are to be paid regardless of whether the house is sold. It cuts out time wasters and people signing up with loads of agents.

eightyfish

Is your agent a member of the IAVI? Find out because if the agent is you can probably ask them for some advice. They may contact the agent on your behalf.

amdublin

What does your contract say?
ie. what did you sign agreeing to?

I would imagine it states that if no sale you do not have to pay commission. BUT I imagine it makes reference to advertising costs and states if no sale you are still liable to these costs.

If I was in your situation (dependent on contract) I would not be paying anything more than their outlay on advertising (Daft ad, ad in paper etc).

But I would be accepting I need to pay them something - again contract dependent.

Check your contract and let us know what you agreed to at the outset!

amdublin

Davidth88 wrote: »

So you engage an estate agent , they don't sell the house , then they want money . And people here think that's ok , even their advertising costs.

The OP may have signed a contact accepting that they would pay advertising costs even if the house was not sold.

Commission - likely in the contract it stipulates that no commission to be paid unless house is sold.

Really need further/full info here to properly advise OP. Of course everyone is going to have varying opinions of what is fair and what is not but ultimately all of this would have been outlined in the contract which the OP signed and the OP will have to adhere to this or else he is in breach of contract.

BTW I accept the estate agent has not sold the house - but that may not have not been their side of their contract in order to get paid for advertising. ie. a term of the contract may have been that the estate agent would advertise the house for sale and that the vendor would pay the advertising costs [whether or not the house is sold]. This means the estate agent has upheld this term of the contract and now the vendor needs to uphold his part.

Now, to get paid the commission I am sure it was a term of the contract that the estate agent actually had to sell the house! Well I would hope the vendor did not sign accepting any other terms!!

Davidth88

I am amazed........... I have never sold a house in Ireland ( have in the UK ) .

So the estate agents charge you for advertising even if not sold !

You might as well put the house in the small ads , or on daft yourself , as the OP did .

Why does anyone use an estate agent ?

The Orb

If you engaged the guy, and he incurred initial expenses, then you should repay them, regardless of how bad you claim he was, unless you took him on on a no foal no fee basis.It's only right to repay the man's outgoings.

dlambirl

Generally you pay commission & advertising expenses (newspaper, sign, website advertising)

Newspaper advertising can cost huge amounts of money and its unfair to assume that the agent will just suffer this cost.
Also, agents pay websites like daft.ie and myhome.ie every month and if yuor home is on the market for long this can amount too...

Cabaal

Davidth88 wrote: »

I am shocked.......

So you engage an estate agent , they don't sell the house , then they want money . And people here think that's ok , even their advertising costs.
no no no

They didn't sell the house. Commision is just that , commision for selling something , they didn't do it. Any cost occured in them not carrying out their duty is their problem isn't it ?

However what it says in any contract you may have signed might be something different.
OP , find any contract you signed , and speak to a law person.

The estate agent still advertised your house so they are entitled to such costs to cover this.

Its equal to you selling an item so you put a advert on the paper but later you manage to sell the item to somebody who never saw the item in the paper.

The paper is still entitled to their fee, you'd look crazy trying to look for a refund just because the paper didn't get your item sold.

Getting an estate agent is not some guarantee to selling your house, if people think they are then foolish them.

Cabaal

Davidth88 wrote: »

Why does anyone use an estate agent ?

so they dont have to do all the leg work themselfs which can be time consuming for people

marmalade3

I think you'll find if you take the trouble to read the contract you signed initially, that you agreed to pay the EA any advertising costs - they did advertise your house after all - had they sold your house for you, the solicitor would have deducted the advertising costs from your final cheque and paid the EA on your behalf.

IMO burying your head in the sand (ie: ignoring their letters and hoping they won't find out your forwarding address) is not a mature way to deal with the issue.

Best thing you can do is pay the advertising costs and kiss the bad karma goodbye, rather than have it follow you around for the rest of your life.:)

bmm

Auctioneers, Solicitors and Employment Agents have allot of time on their hands these days and they spend much of it sticking up for each other on these threads.

During the boom times when they were extracting extortionate fees from many unsuspecting victims they would not have wasted time chasing the OP for a few advertising euros.

no win, no fee...

eightyfish

bmm wrote: »

extracting extortionate fees from many unsuspecting victims

*sigh*

kmick

They should have looked for those costs upfront from you. I would ring them and offer to pay half the costs. Explain how you felt left down by their service as detailed in your psots and that you had to outlay those costs again yourself. Regardless of whether they accept the offer send a registered letter with the offer to them so if it ever turns nasty you have something to cover yourself with. If they do accept the offer tell them to invoice you all the exact costs so you can check them.

dudara

bmm wrote: »

Auctioneers, Solicitors and Employment Agents have allot of time on their hands these days and they spend much of it sticking up for each other on these threads.

During the boom times when they were extracting extortionate fees from many unsuspecting victims they would not have wasted time chasing the OP for a few advertising euros.

no win, no fee...

bmm

This thread is not the place for that argument.

dudara

greendom

When you go with 2 or more estate agents they all expect paying when the house is sold; the circumstance is the same here. The house was sold while it was on their books; they are entitled for the full commission (unless your contract with them states otherwise)

ShooterSF

I agree that advertising should generally be paid but some people on this thread seem to neglect the fact that a contract works both ways. If they put your house up on daft etc. with their contact details but no one could reach them or find out about your house that's not living up to their side of the contract.
They definitely should not get commission unless you were insane enough to sign a contract that agreed to it.

At the end of the day people have to remember you don't NEED an estate agent to sell your house. If you do accept one you're accepting any cons in a contract along with the pros.

Sponge Bob

amcalester wrote: »

Most contracts will state that advertising costs are to be paid regardless of whether the house is sold. It cuts out time wasters and people signing up with loads of agents.

The estate agent is entitled to recoup their advertising costs in full but not a cent of commission as they did not make the sale ( or answer the phone) and the seller had decided to do it themselves instead thereby terminating the contract with the estate agent .

Have you a copy of your premium daft ad which is an important piece of evidence .

Slice

The contract is invalid if the terms of the contract are deemed to be unfair to either party. In light of the fact that they failed to follow up on your friend's inquiry you should see whether or not they met their obligations under the terms of the contract and dispute them on that point. Also, you should check to see whether or not the terms of the contract are still valid in light of the letter you sent them stating that you were not happy to accept the terms. Also, does your letter clearly state you want out of the contract or is it only implied and does their response acknowledge this?

emanresu

Slice wrote: »

The contract is invalid if the terms of the contract are deemed to be unfair to either party. In light of the fact that they failed to follow up on your friend's inquiry you should see whether or not they met their obligations under the terms of the contract and dispute them on that point. Also, you should check to see whether or not the terms of the contract are still valid in light of the letter you sent them stating that you were not happy to accept the terms. Also, does your letter clearly state you want out of the contract or is it only implied and does their response acknowledge this?

Just for clarification, it was not the original poster who got friends to enquire about the house. See posts number 14 and 16.

amdublin

Slice wrote: »

The contract is invalid if the terms of the contract are deemed to be unfair to either party.

It is my belief that only a judge can decide this?? ie. you cannot sign a contract and then a year later when it suits you decide it is unfair and that you are not going to uphold your end.