Computer Science & Linguistics

Huxoin

Hey,
Just a quick question. Computer science course, and computer science and linguistics course are both 4 years long. A lot of stuff you learn in the regular computer science course must be left out if it's half and half with the language, so how much is left out if that's the way it is?

Thanks

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

It's not just half being a language, it's language AND linguistics.

The courses are quite different, and it's not that CSLL students don't do some of the stuff that CS do, so much as they do different classes and rarely share classes (although that might be changing seeing as Trinity are turning all courses into a homogenous sludge of modules that seem to cater to no-one and please fewer, e.g. certain classes we (CS) had shared with Engineers were we were bored out of our tree since we, but not the Engineers had covered the course already).

But without digressing further, and without complete knowledge of the CSLL course, it seems they mostly do the topics in Computer Science that serve their field directly rather than topics which are less likely to be useful beyond Computer Science itself. For example, they would study some assembly language, since that is something one ought to learn in order to become a good programmer, but they would not study Computer Architecture in the same depth we would, and I believe some classes that are mandatory for us (CS) are optional for CSLL.

So you learn less CS in CSLL, an obvious, and an objective fact (and one that CSLL students, with their massive inferiority complex are loathe to admit, beware what CSLL students might contribute to this conversation), but nevertheless, don't let this dissuade you if you feel there is a possibility that you might do CSLL and want to go on and become a Computer Scientist, or a programmer or whatever afterwards, if you're good at that side of things, then you'll have no difficulty progressing towards your intended goal, and it goes without saying that there is a large overlap in abilities between the worst of CS and the best of CSLL.

tolosenc

My Erasmus card trumps your "They don't do computer architecture" card.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Toulousain wrote: »

My Erasmus card trumps your "They don't do computer architecture" card.

johnl

Unfortunately, ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI can no longer contribute to this thread, due to being censured elsewhere, so I will take up the torch.

Both courses are good, I personally did CSLL, and would recommend it to anyone.

If you are not interested in languages and language in general, I'm not sure CSLL is right for you. What languages do you know, even vaguely?

Do you generally find languages easy or hard?

Would you be interested in breaking down sentences into their constituent parts, programmatically?

WHirl7

I'm considering CSLL (German) aswell. I would like to end up doing something more in the CS field, but I enjoy German and would probably like to work in Germany after my degree for a bit. Do you think it is a good choice for me?

ronivek

If you genuinely have an interest in Computer Science and particularly those aspects of CS which lay at the lower levels of computing abstractions (i.e. below the Java/Prolog/Haskell kind of level); then do CS.

If you genuinely have an interest in languages/linguistics or working/studying abroad and like the idea of some higher-level programming; then do CSLL.

Far too many people start CS degrees and drop out because they just plain don't like it or just don't have enough of an aptitude to get through it without a lot of pain. Whilst the same might be true of CSLL; if you have an interest in the language/linguistic side of it you should be able to cope with the CS type stuff a bit better.

In terms of the type of graduate you'll end up becoming; I don't think you'll have much trouble getting a decent job with either degree assuming you haven't just crammed your way through it. Although if you're a CS grad you probably won't be walking into a French Software Engineering position; likewise if you're a CSLL grad you probably won't be walking into a Network Stack Programming position.

In terms of postgrad opportunities; I don't think it matters much which degree really. If anything the CSLL route probably opens up more doors since you'll be spending a year in a different university. The flipside is if your area of interest lies outside the CSLL subjects then you'll have to put in the time and effort outside of your CSLL stuff in order to gain some proficiency there.

Anyways; either way I strongly suggest you set yourself aside a weekend to look through the prospectus and course web pages and trawl around Wikipedia and so on to get to grips with the kind of stuff you'll actually be studying. Too many people genuinely have no clue what Computer Science actually is.

And now my procrastination is complete; back to work type stuff.

stesh

ronivek wrote: »

If you genuinely have an interest in Computer Science and particularly those aspects of CS which lay at the lower levels of computing abstractions (i.e. below the Java/Prolog/Haskell kind of level); then do CS.

CSLL goes further than 'the Java/Prolog/Haskell kind of level'. We now do Introduction to computing, which means writing in assembly language, memory addressing, number systems, etc. But ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI is right, we obviously do less CS ;-)

stesh

Toulousain wrote: »

My Erasmus card trumps your "They don't do computer architecture" card.

Ceci.

WHirl7

So can someone give me a general list of the CS aspects that CSLLers miss out on? Because from what I'm hearing, it doesn't seem like I'd be missing that much of CS that I'm interested in by doing CSLL.

stesh

WHirl7 wrote: »

So can someone give me a general list of the CS aspects that CSLLers miss out on? Because from what I'm hearing, it doesn't seem like I'd be missing that much of CS that I'm interested in by doing CSLL.

The 'lowest' you go, in first year anyway, is the software which executes directly on hardware. Those in straight CS go deeper, learning about the actual make-up and design of electronic circuits, and how digital logic as well as things like addition and subtraction are physically implemented in the processor. They go even 'deeper' also and study the fundamental concepts of electronic circuitry.

Pure CS students also learn about telecommunications, as well as 'Computers and society' (a bollocks essay-fest, I'm told). Finally they do a group programming project in first year, whereas CSLL doesn't (we do something similar, but more linguistically-oriented, in second year).

In second year, while pure CS follows on with computer architecture and information management, CSLL has much more focus on the more formal aspects of linguistics, as well as a bit of natural-language processing in C and Prolog.

This is a list of the first year courses in CS, and this is a list of the courses in CSLL. You might also find the course handbook useful for getting more information on exactly what CSLL is about.

I'm really enjoying it so far. There's such small group of us and we all get on really well. I'll gladly answer any more questions you have ;-)

tolosenc

stesh wrote: »

Pure CS students also learn about telecommunications, as well as 'Computers and society' (a bollocks essay-fest, I'm told). Finally they do a group programming project in first year, whereas CSLL doesn't (we do something similar, but more linguistically-oriented, in second year).

Computer's in Society has never had the best reviews... Unless things have changed drastically with the introduction of modularisation, you do an individual programming project at the end of this year. We coded Java implementations of ELIZA.

In second year, while pure CS follows on with computer architecture and information management, CSLL has much more focus on the more formal aspects of linguistics, as well as a bit of natural-language processing in C and Prolog.

C++ actually. And no Prolog for me last year, unfortunately. (Much as Carl loves it)

There's such small group of us and we all get on really well.

How many Freshers are the this year?

stesh

Toulousain wrote: »

We coded Java implementations of ELIZA.

So it's Java coming out the wazoo by the end of this year I gather...

'Why do you gather that it's Java coming out the wazoo by the end of this year?'

Toulousain wrote: »

How many Freshers are the this year?

There are five of us.

WHirl7

Thanks for that stesh. Those aspects of CS don't really interest me greatly so you've pretty much confirmed what I thought. I'll be sure to look through the course handbook too.

stesh

WHirl7 wrote: »

Thanks for that stesh. Those aspects of CS don't really interest me greatly so you've pretty much confirmed what I thought. I'll be sure to look through the course handbook too.

No problem. Also, note that there is a PDF of that handbook available for download. I find the web-based one quite stressful...

tolosenc

stesh wrote: »

I find the web-based one quite stressful...

To say the least...

WHirl7

Ooh and another thing, how do you find the linguistics part of the course? I've heard mixed reviews of linguistics, some people say it's mind-numbingly boring, others say its ok.

tolosenc

I found first and second year to be really interesting. Syntax, Phonetics, Phonology, ILS, Formal Semantics, Formal Syntax, Morphology. All good. I guess if it's the sort of thing that interests you, it's really fun, but if it's not (all language TSMs had to take the ILS course when I was in 1st year, and most of them hated it, because it's not what they wanted to study).