midi equipment

km991148

Hi,

Been trawling through the threads for general advice and wanted to know more about some specific models of equipment..

Having dj'd a small bit 8-10 yrs ago on vinyl, I am looking to get back into it(I actually still have decks and mixer but retrieving the old budget geminis from my m8s house in scotland prob aint worth shipping here..!)

as with many in same position, the quickest and easiest way seems to be to get a midi controller and sound card hooked up to the comp. This would do me fine (seen the button pushers/real djs thread and dont care!!).

Id like to get quite good at it and make full use of features this set up would afford.

However I dont have a huuuge budget. I could be tempted by vci 100s but would really need to scrimp on a sound card for now and this is where I aint so sure..

i.e. will a budget soundcard (like this Behringer) be completely woefull and laggy?

my laptop is decent enough but want to know where the lag comes in when building these systems.

other option is to save on the controller and get something like:
http://www.thedjshop.co.uk/mixers/mixing-desks/numark-total-control-midi-controller.html

what are they like compared to the more upmarket units? That seems to be the only budget ocntroller worth considering. Am I right in saying that the vci100 or the M-audio Xponent are the only mid level units to consider?

Finally, wont get a chance to look this weekend down here, anyone know of shops up north where I could get a look at such equipment? will be in Lisburn/Belfast area.

cheers,
km

ED E

I have the TC:) Its basic but I like it. Casing is very durable, sliders could be slightly better. Value for money I'd rank it highly. Its premapped on all the software I've tried so you shouldnt have any problems.


Lag wont come from your MIDI device, more your CPU. Most packages are really light though. I use Traktor Pro on this AMD Sempron 2GHZ Single Core piece of cr@p with no problems. Also, if you want to scratch then you should look for as low a soundcard latency as possible. This reduces audio quality somewhat, but with a decent card you can keep the sample rate and latency at required levels.

Small jog wheels are fine if you arent scratching(so they're just used for cueing) but if you've been using vinyl then you might want bigger ones or use timecoded vinyl decks(not so cheap).

electrogrimey

Definitely not for scratching, but have you considered something like this? Use that to control your software, and if you wanted to could plug into a mixer through an external soundcard and use the Uc33e for everything the mixer doesn't have. It's what I'm getting, ordering the NI Audio 2 DJ in a few days, and I'm getting the evolution once I have the cash!

km991148

Thanks lads for the info,

I think I would prefer something like the TC or something with jog wheels, I dont really want to scratch but think I would prefer the feel of a jog wheel to aid transition! would be usefull for quick effects etc I think.

I wont get my old mixer back anytime soon, and even then it wasnt that great (an old Gemini 626 I think) and dont wanna speand too much for now (christmas is comming etc!)

Any shops up north where I could get a feel for this stuff?

Also can the TC be mapped to tracktor pro? I know it comes with LE, but..

also @lethal - I had a comp with a sempron and 512Mb of ram - was poor at best..

ED E

km991148 wrote: »

Any shops up north where I could get a feel for this stuff?

Also can the TC be mapped to tracktor pro? I know it comes with LE, but..

also @lethal - I had a comp with a sempron and 512Mb of ram - was poor at best..

TBH, best value is going to be the likes of thomann.de(brilliant retailer) or ebay for the TC. I think the price is pretty much identical(170 last time I checked). Unless you fly to germany though thats no use for a test. Havent been in any of the shops but I think there are two in Dublin(One good, one bad) that are frequently mentioned.

TC is mapped for Traktor Pro, just select it from the drop down when you run the app.

Yeah, I'm running Win7 on 2Ghz with 2GB. Runs fine:)

km991148

yeah Ive notice the price on the TC - all retaillers seem to be doing it at the RRP of 169stg;

I just wanted to see what the midi controllers feel like generally, and will be visiting some friends up there;

i.e. do the faders feel solid, will the TC be very poor in comparison to say the VCI 100 or similar. I dont expect much feedback via the jog wheels, but would be dissapointed if the faders and knobs were overyl loose;

I guess it dont matter too much for now, just wann mess about a bit at home and dont have any of my other equipment.

Just need to get onto a sound card now!

electrogrimey

Have a look in this thread, there's a huge conversation about which digital set-up to go for.

km991148

thanks electro grimey..
but that leaves more questions!
am I just about to invest in a toy! I have no other gear with me at th mo, and wanted to mess about again, but not if it means paying serveal '000s for cheap cr@p!

I though the vci 100 for example was a decent piece of kit, but the opinions of otheres on that thread suggests otherwise;

I was interested in the Hercules DJ Control steel (like the RMX but minus in built sound card - think seperation is often better in these cases) as an alternative to the numark TC, as it was a larger unit with some more controls; BUT - I aint never heard of hercules, and there website shows that they make all sorts - is the midi controller gonna be sh!t?

I was seriously thinking about getting the UC33 but I think it would just be weird as I would be going all digital and would prefer some controls in the 'traditional' layout - or is this just being silly?

Zascar

Hi OP,

A lot of this has been covered in my thread linked above - as I keep saying tis a lot about personal preference but here is my 2 cents.

I would not bother with any of the low end controllers, like everything you are better off saving until you can afford what you want, you'll be glad you did. Get the Native Instruments Audio 2 DJ - €99 and very well worth it. I had the Xponent and loved i but its far from perfect - its software Torq is not as good as Traktor. VCI-100 is way better. I bought a UC33 2nd hand for cheap and currently have it mapped to Traktor Pro. It's a standard Midi Controller so you can make any knobs or buttons do anything, but I don't like it as really who wants to map play, pause, queue, sync loop etc - to a keypad that's like a telephone. VCI-100 is built specifically for DJ's so everything us laid out where u would expect it, knobs and faders are really nice too. I'm going to use the VCI-100 and then also have the uc33 map to other effects etc

Look at the custom one from www.djtechtools.com - €500 delivered.

km991148

Hi Zascar,

I was looking through your thread there (sorry about the robbery btw!) and feel the same about the UC33 - I think its a great controller if you were into effects when dj'in with other equipment, but as a main controller I would prefer somethin in the shape of VCI-100 etc.

Whats the main difference between your Xponent and the vci?

I am seriously considerin the hercules at 200eur - which to me seems a reasonable price for what many call an oversized mouce?

Cheers
km

Zascar

I'm sure the hercules is an ok piece of kit for the money if all you want to do it mix a few tunes in your room, but its not club quality.

If you want a decent solution that you could use in a club etc, you have to jump up the scale. The Xponent was great but it had its downsides - a few people mentioned sound quality - and the software is not as good. There is a reason why dozens of DJ's use Traktor pro but none I know of use Torq.

If you can stretch to €600, the VCI-100 + Audio 2 DJ is great solution for the money.

km991148

Zascar wrote: »

I'm sure the hercules is an ok piece of kit for the money if all you want to do it mix a few tunes in your room, but its not club quality.

If you want a decent solution that you could use in a club etc, you have to jump up the scale. The Xponent was great but it had its downsides - a few people mentioned sound quality - and the software is not as good. There is a reason why dozens of DJ's use Traktor pro but none I know of use Torq.

If you can stretch to €600, the VCI-100 + Audio 2 DJ is great solution for the money.

yep, but as the hercules is a midi only, then sound quality wont be an issue (as long as I get a decent sound card as mentioned above)? Also surely I can use any software? I already have a pro version of traktor (gifted to me, not anything dodgy!) so surely I would be able to map any midi to it?

I would love a vci 100, but for over 400euro, its prb not gonna happen this side of christmas!

Also about your audio2 soundcard, can u use the outputs as inputs?

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

I
If you want a decent solution that you could use in a club etc, you have to jump up the scale. The Xponent was great but it had its downsides - a few people mentioned sound quality - and the software is not as good. There is a reason why dozens of DJ's use Traktor pro but none I know of use Torq.
.

Ah Zascar, the exact same thing can be said of the vci-100 and all those types of controllers. Not one serious dj uses them.

Secondly, if the hercules is not up to 'club standard', how is the vci-100 up to 'club standard'?

Zascar

Oh ok I thought that Hercules had an internal soundcard. If it is just midi then it will work fine I'm sure.

km991148

@Zascar
yep was just askin, as Im tryin to get to the bottom of what to buy and I thought I was right in saying that any controller will do sound quality wise, if the sound production is handled by the comp and soundcard. What do you like most about the vci over your old controller? just curious and looking for reasons to get the vci

@jtsuited
cheers, yep thats really what I am trying to get to. I aint going to be looking to get club gigs or anything like that, just to mess about (albiet seriously i.e. to learn some new skills and have fun, not just straight 2 track a-b-a-b-a-b auto synced mixing!).

I dont think a controller is a waste of time, but I see it as a way to get back into some 'fun' dj ing. I would switch to cdjs but wouldnt wanna spend the $$$ on pioneer 1000s (which I reckon i'd need )

milltown

I'll pop in here and I'll probably be the lone voice touting Hercules. I don't know, but I'd be keen to find out, whether there's any notable difference in latency between different soundcards. Especially when the cheapest reputable cards seem to start at ~€100 anyway.

Myself and Zascar had Hercules Mk2s to begin with. I think he's pretty dismissive of it but I reckon as a value for money introduction to MP3/MIDI DJing it's pretty hard to beat. They can be got on adverts.ie for less than €100 2nd hand and can do pretty much everything you'd need, albeit in a small, plastic, cheap feeling box.

Upgrade time came quickly for me and I went with the Herc RMX, basically the steel with a built in soundcard. I had a go of the Numark TC in a shop and thought it was decent enough but I was looking for an all in one, with a soundcard integrated and I thought the RMX looked better quality than the Numark Omni at about the same price. It came with a lite version of Virtual DJ but I quickly decided, with help from our esteemed forum members, that Traktor was probably the best way to go. With shift work and a wife and two young kids I'm struggling to get quality time with it, so I'm still experimenting with different maps and trying to decide which features of Traktor I want on the frontline, as it were, and which I can manage with modifiers (shift keys for want of a better expression) and what can be relegated to keyboard shortcuts. So far though, I'm pleased to say it's everything I want, need and expect from a controller.

The hardcore MIDI heads (Jeff!)will continue to maintain that it's just a console of mappable buttons, and they are of course right, but I grew up and became average with a pair of decks and a mixer. Then I was forced into a decade long sabbatical, but if I hope to become average again I need a layout that's familiar. You can have a look at youtube and see folk mixing on Traktor using a MIDI keyboard as a controller but that's demonstrating a level of adaptability that I'm never going to show. I hate to admit it but this dog is getting old and DJing without stylii is probably as new a trick as I'm likely to learn!

To conclude, if I persist and decide to upgrade again I reckon a VCI-100 and seperate soundcard may be the next step, but if you're hoping for a cheaper entry point then the Hercules gets my vote.