Rights of campus security guards

A few years ago I went back to my local university campus and logged onto the computer network by resetting the admin password. I did this a few times over weekends and was mainly downloading movies. Eventually I got caught. The guy wasn't a security guard but he confiscated a floppy from me and wanted me to go to reception and take down my personal details and address etc. I managed to run off but I'm just wondering was he entitled to do this?

I'm not going back as I have a pc at home now but I'd like to know where I stand. Another time I was in a lab I shouldn't have been in, some guy came in and locked the door until I showed him id.

I thought that the only thing they were allowed to do was escort you off their property (campus). Can anyone shed any light on this for me please? Thanks

Princess Zelda

According to Section 4 (4) of the Criminal Law Act 1997, An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.. I would not be 100% on the legality of taking the disc off you, but if they genuinely thought that you were trespassing, they would be within their rights to detain you until arrival of An Garda Siochana, as trespassing is an arrestable offence (Section 11 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994)

Hooch

Princess Zelda wrote: »

According to Section 4 (4) of the Criminal Law Act 1997, An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.. I would not be 100% on the legality of taking the disc off you, but if they genuinely thought that you were trespassing, they would be within their rights to detain you until arrival of An Garda Siochana, as trespassing is an arrestable offence (Section 11 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994)

Section 11 is not an arrestable offence.......

Princess Zelda

Sorry :eek: Blame the lack of caffeine. Technically, if the security thought the person was there for the purposes of committing burglary, that would be an arrestable offence

Hooch

Princess Zelda wrote: »

Sorry :eek: Blame the lack of caffeine. Technically, if the security thought the person was there for the purposes of committing burglary, that would be an arrestable offence

Aghhhhh.....now burglary is a bit different;)

Reloc8

And even if the security guard has the right to carry out an arrest he has to then contact the gardai, not interrogate you/confiscate your property.

I tend to agree btw that a security in this factual scenario did indeed have the right to arrest you.

dermot_sheehan

Problem for the security guard is for a valid section 4 arrest by a civilian guard to take place the arrestor must reasonably believe that the arrestee is committing an arrestable offence, or an arrestable offence must have taken place and the arrestor reasonably believes the arrestee committed that offence (this is different to the powers for the gardai, who merely have to have a reasonable belief that an arrestable offence has taken place and that the arrestee committed that offence).

Section 12 burglary takes place when a person enters a building as a trespasser with the intent to commit an arrestable offence, or having entered commits an arrestable offence.

The security guard can only arrest if the person can reasonably be said to be in the act of committing burgulary (i.e. the guard catches him as he enters in a situation where the guard can reasonably assume he's there to commit an arrestable offence), or the guard sees him committing an arrestable offence as a trespasser (in which case the guard could simply arrest him for the arrestable offence he just witnessed him committing.

If the guard simply finds him as a trespasser on the premises, he's not in the act of committing burglary. The guard can lawfully arrest if he can subsequently prove that burglary (or some other arrestable offence) has taken place. Finding someone wondering around in a computer room as a trespasser is not enough to arrest someone unless you can prove that they have committed an arrestable offence, for a civilian to arrest other then catching someone in the act, its a requirement that the offence actually took place, not just a reasonable belief that it took place.

If a security guard detains someone without very convincing evidence of theft, or unless he catches someone in the act of entering where he could show that there was intent on the trespasser to commit an arrestable offence, he's unlawfully detaining the person and is civilly liable

Victor

What of theft of service - illicit use of the computer?

Reloc8

gabhain7 wrote: »

The security guard can only arrest if the person can reasonably be said to be in the act of committing burgulary (i.e. the guard catches him as he enters in a situation where the guard can reasonably assume he's there to commit an arrestable offence), or the guard sees him committing an arrestable offence as a trespasser (in which case the guard could simply arrest him for the arrestable offence he just witnessed him committing.

He can under S.4(1) Criminal Law Act 1997 arrest if he with reasonable cause suspects a person to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence. The threshold for reasonable cause is extremely low (effectively a bona fide belief will do) and subsequent facts proven do not invalidate the arrest (i.e. proof no offence was in fact committed does not mean the arrest was unlawful) provided bona fides in the arrest.

So, if he came accross someone acting suspiciously he is likely to have reasonable cause so as to arrest, presuming the suspicious behaviour can be linked to an arrestable offence (offence for which a person of full capacity could be given five years). The various offences under the Copyright and Related Rights Act 2000 provide for five years on indictment in respect of all offences (from memory).

Equally resetting an admin password to procure access to a network is probably the procuring of services by deception under the Criminal Justice (Theft & Fraud) Offences Act 2001. It might even come under Criminal Damage to the network (eh...unlikely/not sure about that).

In a general sense, depending on what the security guard observed of course and indeed what he was told by a person/suspect at scene could/would be part of this, I think he is likely to be on safe ground effecting an arrest.

What he can't do is anything other than transfer the suspect into the custody of the gardai as soon as possible. What he can do is physically detain the person, if the person tried to leg it or such (obviously he shouldn't however just grab the person in question but should first, having established a reasonable cause, request that they remain in situ pending arrival of gardai. If the person refused, they would then be entitled to detain them.

I agree the burglary thing is not necessarily the appropriate charge/issue in this situation in respect of carrying out a lawful arrest. But again I think in the situation described the guard is most likely to be well within bounds.