What amount of their income should people spend on a bike?

flickerx

Fux sake. Got a PM from a user this morning looking for a "nice" fixie for 150 euro. That wouldnt even cover the wheels (70 for back wheel, 50 front, 5 for rimtape, 10 for tubes, and then however much you want on the tyres). I'm quite annoyed by this to be honest. Are people out there just ignorant of how much it costs to buy parts - or do they just have this dumb collective mentality that you should be buying a bike for half nothing? I cant understand this logic to be honest. If you are going to be using something every day for your transport, surely you can stretch it beyond that? Even a bike for around 300 euro will last you a good bit of time if you put in the slightest bit of effort to keep the components cleaned and oiled. If you buy a bike for 300 and a lock for 50, that means your daily cost works out at a euro. This is still the cheapest transport option in the city. No more taxis that cost a tenner as soon as you sit into them. I wouldnt blink at spending €1500 on a bike if I was working, my previous job I was only making around €24,000 a year but I still understood the value of having a decent bike, and even if you are on the dole (which I am), I would still tell people to spend at least a fortnights' post-tax income on a bike, which in the case of you having the lowest possible income equates to €408. As you can tell from the lack of paragraphs I am in a slightly ranting mood but it just drives me up the wall when people come on here looking for a "good, cheap" bike.

I'm not sure my rant is over, if I get a beer or two into me at the Bernard Shaw on Saturday and I meet any of you, I'm sure I'll be out of the starters traps again at the slightest provocation and running my mouth off for hours.

Anyway, a thought occurred to me. How much should we tell people to spend, who come in here with that question? Obviously everyone's income will be different, so I was thinking a percentage, or a rough guide, based on their income.

Lumen

The "P" in "PM" stands for "Private".

flickerx

Lumen wrote: »

The "P" in "PM" stands for "Private".

OK I've edited that but PM dealing relating to sales in the cycling adverts forum is not allowed, and I think thats only fair. I was being asked to lower the price of the bike I have for sale up there.

flickerx

And that wasnt the first time I've gotten a "can you make me a cheap fixie please" request, either.

blorg

Where's the option for "all of it?"

Lumen

flickerx wrote: »

And that wasnt the first time I've gotten a "can you make me a cheap fixie please" request, either.

That's because you're the fixie guru.

flickerx

blorg wrote: »

Where's the option for "all of it?"

How do you make an infinity symbol on a keyboard?

Lumen

∞

Lumen

In an effort to turn this into a proper Friday thread....

Let me know when your dole receipts exceed your previous PRSI payments. Then I'll start a rant about you spending my money on bikes.

:pac:

TinyExplosions

I think you should spend about 150% of what you can afford to spend on a bike... after all, you're saving on doctors bills, and that's worth a few quid, and it means you can cycle away from the repo man even quicker!

ednwireland

should would and will are three very differeng amount

should prob 5k

would 150

will about 500

if they arent put off altogether

the bike i bought recently 1200 euro

rebuilt mountain bike last year prob 500 euro in bits

year before that rebuilt commuter prob 500 euro (inc new wheels)

thinking about fixie have a frame but its way too hilly round me

alfalad

flickerx wrote: »

And that wasnt the first time I've gotten a "can you make me a cheap fixie please" request, either.

I noticed the ad was withdrawn from the cycling adverts alright, was wondering why.

On another issue, seeing as you build fixies for the fun of it do you ever build to spec i.e. for someone 6ft? Was thinking of sending a pm asking but a little worried of the response I might get!

For the record i would be willing to spend more than €150!

cunnins4

TinyExplosions wrote: »

after all, you're saving on doctors bills, and that's worth a few quid, and it means you can cycle away from the repo man even quicker!

That's all well and good-I save a fortune on bus fares/taxis etc... thanks to the bike but you need to factor in when it costs you time/money. For instance, I recently came off really badly and really fúcked up my knees, palms and elbows, not to mention the damage to the bike. That was nearly 5 weeks ago and my knees and palms are still pretty sore. I couldn't walk for a few days and as a result missed my fitness test for the cadetships that were going on at the time. I couldn't cycle, could barely climb stairs, couldn't exercise....so in that sense, cycling cost me more than the bus/taxi would have.

It's all relative. I cycle, not because of the perceived financial benefits (which certainly outweigh the costs), but because I enjoy it and it beats the hell out of getting public transport.

BTW: I'd spend whatever I could on a bike only I fear it getting nicked!

Lumen

A bike lasts at least as long as a car.

Lots of people spend the equivalent of one years post-tax income on a car (ok, maybe not with the current availability of credit).

Therefore, the answer should be "12 months".

However, diminishing functional returns apply above €1000 (or perhaps lower), after which it arguably makes more sense to own multiple bikes for different purposes.

You would have to be quite nuts to spend €10k on your only bike.

TinyExplosions

cunnins4 wrote: »

That's all well and good-I save a fortune on bus fares/taxis etc... thanks to the bike but you need to factor in when it costs you time/money. For instance, I recently came off really badly and really fúcked up my knees, palms and elbows, not to mention the damage to the bike. That was nearly 5 weeks ago and my knees and palms are still pretty sore. I couldn't walk for a few days and as a result missed my fitness test for the cadetships that were going on at the time. I couldn't cycle, could barely climb stairs, couldn't exercise....so in that sense, cycling cost me more than the bus/taxi would have.

This is true -I'm still limping after being hit by a cab over a week ago!

cunnins4

TinyExplosions wrote: »

This is true -I'm still limping after being hit by a cab over a week ago!

DAMN TAXI DRIVERS!!!! :mad::mad:

Although, that opinion is certainly not unique to cyclists.

flickerx

alfalad wrote: »

I noticed the ad was withdrawn from the cycling adverts alright, was wondering why.

On another issue, seeing as you build fixies for the fun of it do you ever build to spec i.e. for someone 6ft? Was thinking of sending a pm asking but a little worried of the response I might get!

For the record i would be willing to spend more than €150!

I withdrew the ad because a friend was interested but then I had to explain to him about frame sizes and how it wouldnt fit him. The ad is back up there now. I dont mind people contacting me at all privately about building bikes for them, once they understand that it is not something that I (or anyone) can do for €150. I could do it for spec alright - but then of course it means having to find a specific frame that will suit the person that is 6ft in height, and that would involve ordering stuff, which obviously bumps up the price. I dont have a dealer account with anyone so anything I buy is at consumer prices. I usually try and source things slowly over time, and I wish I had stuck to my own rules with the one I have for sale at the moment, I went and bought some nice new components, like the red saddle, red bar tape, red chainring, so the bike would have a pleasant colour scheme to it with the gold frame, but I keep forgetting that the second hand bike marketplace is flooded with morons, with an eBay/Ryanair mentality that the price for everything, everything can be lowered as much as possible. In future I am just going to take my time gathering components and not be in such a rush to finish a project. I wanted to get this one done because I was hoping/expecting/praying to emigrate very soon, but regrettably (you'll never know how much) it didnt work out.

In my head, there are three routes to getting a bike for yourself:

Quick and Cheap (and inevitably a piece of sh1t, like the Dunnes MTBs)
Quick and Expensive (you pay more for getting a really good bike and the parts, but its ready to go, it'll last you longer, and you'll get more enjoyment out of it)
Slow and Cheap (you wait to get the cheaper parts, and you take your time putting it together. You end up with a good bike, but it might take months of eBay auctions, looking out for bargains, hunting on gumtree, picking at carcasses, and so on.)

There is no Quick and Cheap and Good.

I would really like to recommend to people to try and build them themselves, but I think I'm going to stop doing that. Why? Because for a complete newbie starting from scratch, it involves a good deal of buying specialist tools, that they may never use again. Crank puller, chain breaker, bottom bracket remover, calipers, chain whips, lockring tool, etc. I doubt that many people are bothered getting into it at that level.

Lumen

flickerx, can you do slow and expensive? It seems there is a gap in the market.

cdaly_

good, cheap bike

Pick any two...

marathont

flickerx wrote: »

Fux sake. Got a PM from a user this morning looking for a "nice" fixie for 150 euro. That wouldnt even cover the wheels (70 for back wheel, 50 front, 5 for rimtape, 10 for tubes, and then however much you want on the tyres). I'm quite annoyed by this to be honest. Are people out there just ignorant of how much it costs to buy parts - or do they just have this dumb collective mentality that you should be buying a bike for half nothing? I cant understand this logic to be honest. If you are going to be using something every day for your transport, surely you can stretch it beyond that? Even a bike for around 300 euro will last you a good bit of time if you put in the slightest bit of effort to keep the components cleaned and oiled. If you buy a bike for 300 and a lock for 50, that means your daily cost works out at a euro. This is still the cheapest transport option in the city. No more taxis that cost a tenner as soon as you sit into them. I wouldnt blink at spending €1500 on a bike if I was working, my previous job I was only making around €24,000 a year but I still understood the value of having a decent bike, and even if you are on the dole (which I am), I would still tell people to spend at least a fortnights' post-tax income on a bike, which in the case of you having the lowest possible income equates to €408. As you can tell from the lack of paragraphs I am in a slightly ranting mood but it just drives me up the wall when people come on here looking for a "good, cheap" bike.

I'm not sure my rant is over, if I get a beer or two into me at the Bernard Shaw on Saturday and I meet any of you, I'm sure I'll be out of the starters traps again at the slightest provocation and running my mouth off for hours.

Anyway, a thought occurred to me. How much should we tell people to spend, who come in here with that question? Obviously everyone's income will be different, so I was thinking a percentage, or a rough guide, based on their income.

Well it also depends hugely on how much use the bike is going to get.

As regards the PM that you got. The bike is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, it does not matter how much it cost you to build it. The guy was only making you on offer, if that annoys you then I think you should find another business/hobby.

TinyExplosions

cunnins4 wrote: »

DAMN TAXI DRIVERS!!!! :mad::mad:

Although, that opinion is certainly not unique to cyclists.

Not all of 'em are bad, this guy just didn't look before pulling a U Turn when I was passing his bumper

alfalad

flickerx wrote: »

I dont mind people contacting me at all privately about building bikes for them, once they understand that it is not something that I (or anyone) can do for €150. I could do it for spec alright - but then of course it means having to find a specific frame that will suit the person that is 6ft in height, and that would involve ordering stuff, which obviously bumps up the price. I dont have a dealer account with anyone so anything I buy is at consumer prices. I usually try and source things slowly over time, and I wish I had stuck to my own rules with the one I have for sale at the moment, I went and bought some nice new components, like the red saddle, red bar tape, red chainring, so the bike would have a pleasant colour scheme to it with the gold frame, but I keep forgetting that the second hand bike marketplace is flooded with morons, with an eBay/Ryanair mentality that the price for everything, everything can be lowered as much as possible. In future I am just going to take my time gathering components and not be in such a rush to finish a project. I wanted to get this one done because I was hoping/expecting/praying to emigrate very soon, but regrettably (you'll never know how much) it didnt work out.

In my head, there are three routes to getting a bike for yourself:

Quick and Cheap (and inevitably a piece of sh1t, like the Dunnes MTBs)
Quick and Expensive (you pay more for getting a really good bike and the parts, but its ready to go, it'll last you longer, and you'll get more enjoyment out of it)
Slow and Cheap (you wait to get the cheaper parts, and you take your time putting it together. You end up with a good bike, but it might take months of eBay auctions, looking out for bargains, hunting on gumtree, picking at carcasses, and so on.)

There is no Quick and Cheap and Good.

I would really like to recommend to people to try and build them themselves, but I think I'm going to stop doing that. Why? Because for a complete newbie starting from scratch, it involves a good deal of buying specialist tools, that they may never use again. Crank puller, chain breaker, bottom bracket remover, calipers, chain whips, lockring tool, etc. I doubt that many people are bothered getting into it at that level.

Well although I'd love to have a go i have neither the tools or the space at the moment so hence that adds cost for a once off and thats why i was wondering do you build them up if people ask. Also in no rush at all for it! Will shot you a pm soon and maybe you can give me some advise as you seem to know a lot about the whole thing!

flickerx

alfalad wrote: »

Well although I'd love to have a go i have neither the tools or the space at the moment so hence that adds cost for a once off and thats why i was wondering do you build them up if people ask. Also in no rush at all for it! Will shot you a pm soon and maybe you can give me some advise as you seem to know a lot about the whole thing!

I'd build them up no problem at all, but I'd have to have a deposit of some kind, its not like I have loads of cash floating around to be buying parts; and potentially building a custom bike, then for the customer to say "oh sorry I've changed my mind" (another problem I've had before in dealing with people in the second hand market).

If you ever need advice, the best thing to do is search through this forum for previous similar questions, have a look at sheldonbrown.com, and then ask your question on the board if it hasnt been asked/answered before. I'll happily answer any questions, but there's always a good pool of knowledge from the contributors on this forum who will help out too.

flickerx

marathont wrote: »

As regards the PM that you got. The bike is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, it does not matter how much it cost you to build it. The guy was only making you on offer, if that annoys you then I think you should find another business/hobby.

It is the lack of comprehension of how much a bike costs to build, and willingness to spend what is still comparitively speaking a small amount of money in relation to annual income, which annoys me. I dont generally walk into shops and say "I'm only willing to pay half of that price" to the person at the desk, and expect them to go "well ok, no problem, you can have it for the price you want, if thats all you're willing to pay for it." If I am buying something that I think I will use on a daily basis, be it a phone, camera, or bike, I generally do a bit of investigation first. I find out how much the going rate is for new and second hand models, I look at the differences in functionality and so on. Then I make an informed decision, and possibly offers, on how much I am willing to pay for what I want.

I guess I shouldnt get annoyed about it, at this stage of the game I know the internet (and more so, the second hand market sites) is full of people who arent exactly the full shilling.

kincsem

Lumen wrote: »

However, diminishing functional returns apply above €1000 (or perhaps lower), after which it arguably makes more sense to own multiple bikes for different purposes.

That makes sense. And the scumbags can only nick one at a time.

ROK ON

flickerx wrote: »

And that wasnt the first time I've gotten a "can you make me a cheap fixie please" request, either.

OK then, to balance things out, what is the most expensive fixie that you can make me:D.

blorg

He is right though that it is only worth what someone is willing to pay. People look for ridiculous sums for secondhand stuff all the time, advertised asking prices are no indication of actual selling price.

I don't think it is outrageous to expect to be able to pick up a secondhand fixie for €150, you can get a decent secondhand geared commuter for that so why not a fixie.

I would not expect someone to expect you starting from scratch to build him up a "nice" one for that mind. And in that specialized niche I acknowledge that the market may still be pricing any fixies north of €150.

EDIT: SJS are now selling lightweight fixies for only £39.95. Nice chromed finish. I am tempted.