Are John Kramer/Hoffmann murderers?

TheCandystripes · 22-10-2009 4:53pm #1

Whats your view?

Oh and anyone like me still love the Saw franchise, anyone who says they should have stopped it after the first one is quite clearly an idiot, theres been a few not so good ones but the series needed this length, maby more than 6 will be pushing it but 6 was definetly needed.

The first one would have left too many questions that needed to be expanded on, the second one was like a logical follow up, 3 and 4 were basically one movie and 5 was probably the weakest but wtf u gonna do?

ziedth · 22-10-2009 5:51pm

I enjoyed the second one and loved the first one. sorry mate but after that they where pants.

Magic Eight Ball · 22-10-2009 6:23pm

Nichololas · 22-10-2009 6:29pm

They are murderers of good taste and film plots, yes.

Eirebear · 22-10-2009 6:30pm

TheCandystripes wrote: »

anyone who says they should have stopped it after the first one is quite clearly an idiot,

Personally i dont think they should have even bothered with the first one...but WTF u gonna do?

Nichololas · 22-10-2009 7:26pm

Eirebear wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should have even bothered with the first one...but WTF u gonna do?

Actually I would say that the first one is the only one that was good, even though the low budget really shone through. If they they only remade the first one with a good budget and decent actors .. Ah who am I kidding, that's probably already in the pipeline, the money-grubbing whores.

TheCandystripes · 22-10-2009 7:32pm

you lot really are tossers. the films are good, im delighted that they keep brining them out.

Corkfeen · 22-10-2009 7:41pm

TheCandystripes wrote: »

you lot really are tossers. the films are good, im delighted that they keep brining them out.

They're showing there opinion, its there right.

Personally I liked Saw and Saw 2 was ok, Saw 3 was overhaul and 4+5 was just boring.

Eirebear · 22-10-2009 7:42pm

TheCandystripes wrote: »

you lot really are tossers.

Jesus arent you a feisty little one!

personally i think 6 in 6 years is testament to the quality that goes into them.

Simian! · 22-10-2009 8:21pm

In before the lock/ban.

The first one was fresh and new when it came out - after that it was pathetic. Torture porn rubbish.

abouttobebanned · 22-10-2009 8:28pm

This may be the worst thread i've ever encountered in this forum. A lockage after this post would be appropriate.

Xyo · 22-10-2009 8:44pm

I hate that i'm "quite clearly an idiot" now ... thanks for that!

FruitLover · 22-10-2009 8:52pm

Sticky Romance wrote: »

The first one was fresh and new when it came out

Only to people who hadn't been exposed to Japanese productions.

Handsome Bob · 22-10-2009 9:00pm

Just to humour the OP, yes, they are murderers. If I put someone in a fatal situation, I am at the least guilty of manslaughter.

Karl Hungus · 22-10-2009 11:42pm

First Saw was a good film, the rest became a joke. But you want to know if the main characters are murderers? Absolutely yes. It's not just putting someone in a situation where they might die, there was a whole plot-point in one of the sequels where Jigsaw was mentoring Hoffman, that "if you anticipate everything, you leave nothing to chance", as a way of explaining how Jigsaw's ridiculously overcomplicated schemes actually work. So if we take that as granted, then he wasn't just putting people in a situation where they might die, he knew for certain that they would die. So yes, they're plainly murderers.

Karl Hungus · 22-10-2009 11:48pm

By the way, I had warned people before about posting crap like "in before the lock" and calling for mod actions on thread instead of reporting a post. Infractions for all who've done so.

Carry on.

cabrwab · 23-10-2009 11:45am

Enjoyed the saw 1 and thought as a sequel the 2nd wasn't bad, but it seemed to get more ridiculous as the movie went on, didn't bother with the 3rd on so on, just too many sequels, they could have finished after the first there was no need to carry on the mystery of the ending of the first one left enough.

As for are they murderers yeah they are end of he knew most people where going to be killed horrifically, id even call it premeditated murder at that.

Otis Driftwood · 23-10-2009 12:11pm

TheCandystripes wrote: »

Oh and anyone like me still love the Saw franchise, anyone who says they should have stopped it after the first one is quite clearly an idiot, theres been a few not so good ones but the series needed this length, maby more than 6 will be pushing it but 6 was definetly needed.

Dear oh dear.

While Im not a big fan of the original,at least it was somewhat interesting.

The sequels have gotten increasingly ridiculous to the point that if they were people they would be sectioned in a home for the insane/retarded.

The series is just another example of shameless Hollywood cash ins for gormless American teens.

fitz · 23-10-2009 1:04pm

The first movie was good right up until the actual "saw" scene.

Why the **** didn't he just use the saw to reach out and pull the phone in? The phone was at his fingertips? His sense of utter helplessness and blind panic at his situation became instantly unbelievable, cause he was just too stupid to reach out with the saw. Could have easily been rectified by him trying to reach it with the saw, but knocked the phone completely out of reach in his haste to get hold of it.

Ruined the whole thing for me.

The second movie (from the trailer) looked like a complete lift of Cube.

funkyjebus · 23-10-2009 1:14pm

Never should have even made one of these torture porn movies. Anyone who enjoys these are disturbed.

I like a horror and gore, but these are just stupid, pointless and sick.

Get some taste.

23-10-2009 1:56pm

The Saw franchise reminds me a lot of TV's Big Brother.

First film (Saw) and series (BB) were new, different, original and excellent stand-alone examples of their genres.

Then a dead horse got flogged- BB became... well... there aren't words. (Actually, there are but I'd be banned for using them.) Saw II and beyond became just another hastily thrashed out production with awful scripting and forgettable characters. If they weren't part of a franchise piggybacking on the success of a good first offering, they'd be straight to DVD.

MikeC101 · 23-10-2009 2:36pm

funkyjebus wrote: »

Never should have even made one of these torture porn movies. Anyone who enjoys these are disturbed.

That's true, certainly I enjoy spending my spare time, when I'm not watching "torture porn" (laziest, most meaningless moral panic laden term of recent years), mutilating butterflies.

funkyjebus wrote: »

I like a horror and gore, but these are just stupid, pointless and sick.

"If I like it it's ok, if I don't it's stupid, pointless and sick."

funkyjebus wrote: »

Get some taste.

Get some perspective.

funkyjebus · 23-10-2009 2:54pm

MikeC101 wrote: »

That's true, certainly I enjoy spending my spare time, when I'm not watching "torture porn" (laziest, most meaningless moral panic laden term of recent years), mutilating butterflies.

"If I like it it's ok, if I don't it's stupid, pointless and sick."

Get some perspective.

Did you just quote me, but not actually quote me. Whats that about? Whats wrong with you, oh that right you like watching other humans pretend to saw of parts of their own body.

Get perspective? I have perspective, I clearly demonstrated that with my post. Do you know what perspective means, because that doesn't make sense?

And stop with the butterflies, its gateway torture porn, soon you'll be on to crows, domestic cats, god know what else.

Anyone can watch saw, some people might like it, but to come on and defend it and tell me I need perspective for disliking it - F**king philistine

MikeC101 · 23-10-2009 3:09pm

funkyjebus wrote: »

Did you just quote me, but not actually quote me. Whats that about? Whats wrong with you, oh that right you like watching other humans pretend to saw of parts of their own body.

Not just like it, I love it. It gets me all hot and excited. In a bad way.

funkyjebus wrote: »

Get perspective? I have perspective, I clearly demonstrated that with my post. Do you know what perspective means, because that doesn't make sense?

Just because someone likes something you don't, doesn't mean they lack taste. It means their taste is different to yours.

funkyjebus wrote: »

And stop with the butterflies, its gateway torture porn, soon you'll be on to crows, domestic cats, god know what else.

Crows fly up in the sky and I can't catch them. Domestic cats have owners, that might raise questions. Plus their nails are sharp. I think my next step will be rabbits, because you can buy them cheap, and no one asks questions when they disappear. Who knows where it'll all end?

funkyjebus wrote: »

Anyone can watch saw, some people might like it, but to come on and defend it and tell me I need perspective for disliking it - F**king philistine

No - perspective for not understanding that others might like what you don't. And a lack of basic English comprehension skills. That's ok though, words are hard.

At least I'm not one of those Canaanite scum! I hate those guys.

Karl Hungus · 23-10-2009 3:17pm

funkyjebus wrote: »

its gateway torture porn, soon you'll be on to crows, domestic cats, god know what else.

And I'd assume you think the same thing of someone watching a film like Die Hard or Rambo, it's gateway gun crime? Soon they'll be on to shooting animals, and god knows what else?

MikeC101 · 23-10-2009 3:26pm

Karl Hungus wrote: »

And I'd assume you think the same thing of someone watching a film like Die Hard or Rambo, it's gateway gun crime? Soon they'll be on to shooting animals, and god knows what else?

It's certainly making me rethink going to the Horrorthon this weekend - sure it'll be packed with serial killers and torture pornographers and the like!!

uncleoswald · 23-10-2009 3:29pm

funkyjebus wrote: »

Whats wrong with you, oh that right you like watching other humans pretend to saw of parts of their own body.

Hmmm, from your above posts I can't even tell if you are joking. But I'll assume you are not

funkyjebus wrote: »

I like a horror and gore, but these are just stupid, pointless and sick.

So you like gorey horror movies, therefore you like watching horrible things been done to other humans? Thats about on a level with your logic above, no?

For the record I have no interest in "Saw". And I think torture porn is a valid term, it certainly fits with the conveyor belt of carbon copy films been produced and you know the people green lightning them are thinking "torture porn is BIG this season."

funkyjebus · 23-10-2009 3:30pm

Karl Hungus wrote: »

And I'd assume you think the same thing of someone watching a film like Die Hard or Rambo, it's gateway gun crime? Soon they'll be on to shooting animals, and god knows what else?

What??? Mike jested about killing butterflies, I jested back with the above. Sorry should I have put a simpleton smiley at the end for you?

Mike - Just because it my opinion that people who like saw have no taste doesn't mean I lack perspective. But anyway I not going to get into a petty argument about the semantics of the English language.

It my opinion that saw is tasteless gore. And torture porn is a far more acurate description of saw than horror. Friday 13th is a horror(One I also don't really like, but don't care if people do, i have no problem with it) but I draw ther taste line at saw.

'It's certainly making me rethink going to the Horrorthon this weekend - sure it'll be packed with serial killers and torture pornographers and the like!!'

Thats just retarded

MikeC101 · 23-10-2009 3:41pm

funkyjebus wrote: »

What??? Mike jested about killing butterflies, I jested back with the above. Sorry should I have put a simpleton smiley at the end for you?

Jested? What? Oh...yeah...jested, sure, of course.

funkyjebus wrote: »

Mike - Just because it my opinion that people who like saw have no taste doesn't mean I lack perspective. But anyway I not going to get into a petty argument about the semantics of the English language.

Sure it does. You couldn't comprehend that by telling people to "get some taste" you're missing the fact that taste, by it's definition, differs from person to person. Then you interpreted what I said as telling you needed perspective for disliking the film.

funkyjebus wrote: »

It my opinion that saw is tasteless gore. And torture porn is a far more acurate description of saw than horror. Friday 13th is a horror(One I also don't really like, but don't care if people do, i have no problem with it) but I draw ther taste line at saw.

I think the first Saw is pretty decent, for what it is, especially considering the budget. The franchise though, not so much. I think Hostel is good, with some great dark comedic moments. Heck, I think Martyrs is a hell of a film. All films dismissed as torture porn.

funkyjebus wrote: »

'It's certainly making me rethink going to the Horrorthon this weekend - sure it'll be packed with serial killers and torture pornographers and the like!!'

Thats just retarded

Thems are jokes. Pot, kettle, simpleton smiley.....ahhhhh what's the point.

razorblunt · 23-10-2009 5:03pm

I enjoyed the first one I must say, did not see the twist coming at all, the rest were ok, I've rented them but would never go the cinema for them. There's worse out there really.

Otis Driftwood · 23-10-2009 6:10pm

funkyjebus wrote: »

torture porn

Any arguement you could possibly have is automatically rendered redundant by your use of this term.

Its the laziest way possible of describing a horror movie.

Movies like Salo,Ichi The Killer or Marathon Man have scenes of torture in them.

Are they torture porn?

Survey says - no.

You arent a fan of these movies,neither am I.

The difference is,I dont like them because they are crap,you are stating that anyone that watches them is some sort of deviant.

You are so ridiculously misguided in your logic it is actually laughable.

TheCandystripes · 23-10-2009 6:28pm

is the new saw out TODAY?

Eirebear · 23-10-2009 7:45pm

TheCandystripes wrote: »

is the new saw out TODAY?

Surely even an idiot would know that?

Are John Kramer/Hoffmann murderers?

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