Emergency vehicles blue/red/green lights

Bosco boy

Is there a case for the seperate emergency services ie Fire/Ambulance and Police to have a different colour emergency lights, in some countries Fire are RED, Ambulance are Green and Police are Blue, the reason for this I was told was in the case of a major emergency large crowds exiting a scene can easily identify the service they require rather than a sea of blue which leads to confusion. I feel that such a system should be put in place here for that reason . I also feel that anything outside the 3 emergency services should then be orange.

BeardyGit

Don't mean to be blunt, but in all honesty it's not that difficult to tell the difference between a Garda van/car, an Ambulance and a Fire appliance, is it?

The fact that Garda vehicles are white, almost all newer ambulances are high viz yellow and that fire appliances are red should also serve as a big enough clue....and that's before we acknowledge the fact that each service identify the purpose of their vehicles with fairly clear sign-writing.

hobochris

+1
a rough guide on emergency vehicles for identification of serice would be:

car shaped = generally a garda vehicle.

Van shaped = ambulance.

truck shaped = fire truck.

of course a few exceptions may apply but usually Garda/Fire/ambulance are plastered all over the vehicle respectively.

and we already have a light system:

Blue lights = emergency services.
green lights = doctor.
amber lights = vehicle you should be cautious of(generally builders, tow trucks,wide load trucks,cranes etc.. )

Bosco boy

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Don't mean to be blunt, but in all honesty it's not that difficult to tell the difference between a Garda van/car, an Ambulance and a Fire appliance, is it?

The fact that Garda vehicles are white, almost all newer ambulances are high viz yellow and that fire appliances are red should also serve as a big enough clue....and that's before we acknowledge the fact that each service identify the purpose of their vehicles with fairly clear sign-writing.

emergeny vehicles do much of their work at night when its not always possible to identify what type of vehicle it is untill your beside it so I dont buy the shape arguement and also now may of the services have vans, cars, jeeps and HGV's in their fleets covering all shapes and sizes

Bazzy

op it does make sense especially if god forbid your coming out of a smoke filled house etc

i'm sure even for fire personell with breathing equipment on it would be beneficial also

donvito99

Bazzy wrote: »

op it does make sense especially if god forbid your coming out of a smoke filled house etc

i'm sure even for fire personell with breathing equipment on it would be beneficial also

I don't think you're going to be thinking,

"Oh no, its green lights, so that means an ambulance has arrived, but not the fire brigade"

Waste of money IMO, not much of that around nowadays.

BeardyGit

Bosco boy wrote: »

emergeny vehicles do much of their work at night when its not always possible to identify what type of vehicle it is untill your beside it so I dont buy the shape arguement and also now may of the services have vans, cars, jeeps and HGV's in their fleets covering all shapes and sizes

In all honesty, I think you're overthinking this one. White, Yellow, Red. You know?

If you want to be really pedantic, how about the differences in the colours used for the battenberg or striped reflexite? You know, blue and yellow for Gardai, green and yellow for Ambulance....big feck off red truck for Fire?

Of how about the fact that Garda, Ambulance or Fire will usually be displayed on a luminous sign on the front of the vehicle?

Or here's one for you, how about the fact that the Garda vehicle will have Gardaí standing around in navy/yellow uniform, the ambulance will be wearing green and the fire service will be wearing black with yellow/white lids?

Not enough for you?

Okay, have your lights. Knock yourself out.... :rolleyes:

dredre

Bosco boy wrote: »

Is there a case for the seperate emergency services ie Fire/Ambulance and Police to have a different colour emergency lights,

No

The main purpose of the emergency lights is to facilitate passage through traffic. Flashing red lights to the front are not permitted - with good reason as they are the same colour as tail lights and brake lights. Green lights do not penetrate as well as blue.

At a major emergency, all but the command and control vehicle for each service will have their lights turned off, and the various ES will direct you to the appropriate location. In fact if you can walk towards the ES at a major emergency, you are automatically low priority. And what need would you have to locate the Gardai/Fire service in this situation in any case?

BeardyGit

Okay drdre,

But what if there are no street/scene lights, nobody's wearing their hi-viz PPE, all the bulbs are blown in the illuminated vehicle signage, I have a casualty draped across my muscular frame and I can't see because of the BA having gone tits up and leaving me half blind....not to mention the smoke from the housefire and the fact I'm parched and want to get my water bottle from the appliance.....

Jaysus. Without coloured lights I'd be lost.

dredre

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Okay drdre,

But what if there are no street/scene lights, nobody's wearing their hi-viz PPE, all the bulbs are blown in the illuminated vehicle signage, I have a casualty draped across my muscular frame and I can't see because of the BA having gone tits up and leaving me half blind....not to mention the smoke from the housefire and the fact I'm parched and want to get my water bottle from the appliance.....

Jaysus. Without coloured lights I'd be lost.

fair enough, but I think they should be seasonal. i.e. Pumpkin-shaped for now, and change to christmas lights next month.

maglite

Will joe soap remember this?


Lets look,
Bicycle= Garda
Car= Garda or AP/Fire Officer who will not really interact with the public
Big Yellow Van= Ambulance
Big Red truck= Fire


Blue identifies ES and it is a warning device. Use a KISS methology

wicklaman83

Gil_Dub wrote: »

In all honesty, I think you're overthinking this one. White, Yellow, Red. You know?

If you want to be really pedantic, how about the differences in the colours used for the battenberg or striped reflexite? You know, blue and yellow for Gardai, green and yellow for Ambulance....big feck off red truck for Fire?

Of how about the fact that Garda, Ambulance or Fire will usually be displayed on a luminous sign on the front of the vehicle?

Or here's one for you, how about the fact that the Garda vehicle will have Gardaí standing around in navy/yellow uniform, the ambulance will be wearing green and the fire service will be wearing black with yellow/white lids?



Not enough for you?

Okay, have your lights. Knock yourself out.... :rolleyes:

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Okay drdre,

But what if there are no street/scene lights, nobody's wearing their hi-viz PPE, all the bulbs are blown in the illuminated vehicle signage, I have a casualty draped across my muscular frame and I can't see because of the BA having gone tits up and leaving me half blind....not to mention the smoke from the housefire and the fact I'm parched and want to get my water bottle from the appliance.....

Jaysus. Without coloured lights I'd be lost.

dredre wrote: »

fair enough, but I think they should be seasonal. i.e. Pumpkin-shaped for now, and change to christmas lights next month.

maglite wrote: »

Will joe soap remember this?


Lets look,
Bicycle= Garda
Car= Garda or AP/Fire Officer who will not really interact with the public
Big Yellow Van= Ambulance
Big Red truck= Fire


Blue identifies ES and it is a warning device. Use a KISS methology

why would people bother posting if this is the response they are going to get.the OP had an idea and put it to the forum

maglite

Yes he put it to an adult forum with a variety of opinions. Some times an idea pure sucks, not that this ones does, and it gets rejected.

He had an idea, a number of people have posted a range of opinions, We could go an post EU directives that are simular to our opinions. There are certain differances in those compaired to what we do, it is becuase fo that ambulances are going yellow. Its an opinion, why should it just wither be ignored or agreed with

jt123456

As said above somewhere. Blue lights are for the safe passage through traffic for all ES vehicles.

So if you see blue lights in your rear view mirror or up ahead then just get the hell out of the way. It doesnt matter if its a Garda vehicle, an ambulance or a fire engine. They are responding to an emergency and need to get there as quick as possible.

If you see green lights then you know its a doctor on call so you know they are not gonna be racing at mad high speeds but out of courtesy let them pass without any hassle.

If you see an amber light then you know there is no ememgency but be aware and cautious.

Blue, green, amber. Its simple enough to understand.

Bosco boy

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Okay drdre,

But what if there are no street/scene lights, nobody's wearing their hi-viz PPE, all the bulbs are blown in the illuminated vehicle signage, I have a casualty draped across my muscular frame and I can't see because of the BA having gone tits up and leaving me half blind....not to mention the smoke from the housefire and the fact I'm parched and want to get my water bottle from the appliance.....

Jaysus. Without coloured lights I'd be lost.

Like I said its really for in the case of a major emergency so that people who especially need medical / ambulance assistance can identify where it is exactly so that precious time which could save a life is not wasted trying to find an ambulance in a sea of blue lights, its probally ok for someone in the services to dismiss it cause they are familar with chaos and panic but for the public who may be disorientated at a scene and indeed ems personnel trying to direct them to the correct service then it would be a great help, its not downgrading a service its improving the overall service, also why are vehicles and uniforms different in the first place - so that people can distingush them but this would assist people and personel at night even if the street lights are working and all your bulbs havent blown.;)

dredre

Bosco boy wrote: »

Like I said its really for in the case of a major emergency so that people who especially need medical / ambulance assistance can identify where it is exactly so that precious time which could save a life is not wasted trying to find an ambulance in a sea of blue lights, its probally ok for someone in the services to dismiss it cause they are familar with chaos and panic but for the public who may be disorientated at a scene and indeed ems personnel trying to direct them to the correct service then it would be a great help, its not downgrading a service its improving the overall service, also why are vehicles and uniforms different in the first place - so that people can distingush them but this would assist people and personel at night even if the street lights are working and all your bulbs havent blown.;)

That isn't how a major incident works. Do you think that ambulances arrive and park up with the crew sitting in the front waiting for people to make their way to them?!

It will be chaos, but there is an organisation to it. No major incident plan is based on attracting people towards ambulances. As I stated already, but you seemed to miss - if you are able to make your way towards an ambulance, you are automatically low priority.

If you want more info you could check out this: http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/FireandEmergencyServices/EmergencyPlanning/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,796,en.pdf
or this: http://www.phecit.ie/Documents/Clinical%20Practice%20Guidelines/AP%203rd%20Edition%20CPGs/AP%20Section%208%20Pre-Hospital%20Emergency%20Care%20Operations.pdf

or this:

There is a comprehensive system in place for dealing with major incidents. There is a reason for this. It is not predicated on different coloured lights or people making their own way to ambulances. Different coloured lights would not add anything to this.

I think this thread has run it's course?

ivabiggon

OP..ask me asre?

Shield

ivabiggon wrote: »

OP..ask me asre?

ivabiggon infracted for this post. No further responses to this post please.

This thread will remain open. It is clear that people have reasons for and against what is being proposed by the OP. Just because you don't agree with his idea doesn't mean the thread will be closed. If you have something to contribute to the debate, then let's hear it. If you disagree, then let's hear it in a mature and respectful manner.

Back on topic folks.

ceepeedee

I'd say existing signage/marking/lights/regs etc are based on experience and best practice here and elsewhere, but perhaps it would illuminate the debate if the OP could give examples of the other countries were these alternative emergency lights are in use? I'd be interested in seeing how their emergency vehicle markings and visibility compare to Ireland/UK...

Bosco boy

In the US fire are generally red and police red and blue and Ambulance blue but there are huge variations in all of the states, in europe its generally bule but also many variations, the only place I know of that is exactly as i proposed is argentina and before anyone says there curent vehicles are third world they are as good if not better than ours, I'd have no problem with red for fire blue and red for police and blue only for ambulance, I've also noted the thread to do with private blue lights and this is becoming a problem and another reasons regulation is needed, in moscow in the 80's civillians could call into a police station and for a large fee buy a blue light for their car which obviously resulted in chaos, I know i'm going of the thread but their seems to be blues lights going everywhere and alot with untrained drivers not always going to calls either and thats not directed at any one service

shakin

Bosco boy wrote: »

Is there a case for the seperate emergency services ie Fire/Ambulance and Police to have a different colour emergency lights, in some countries Fire are RED, Ambulance are Green and Police are Blue, the reason for this I was told was in the case of a major emergency large crowds exiting a scene can easily identify the service they require rather than a sea of blue which leads to confusion. I feel that such a system should be put in place here for that reason . I also feel that anything outside the 3 emergency services should then be orange.

No,ive never confused any of the three

dredre

Bosco boy wrote: »

In the US fire are generally red and police red and blue and Ambulance blue but there are huge variations in all of the states, in europe its generally bule

Yes, in Europe it is generally blue. Hence we use blue.

but also many variations, the only place I know of that is exactly as i proposed is argentina and before anyone says there curent vehicles are third world they are as good if not better than ours, I'd have no problem with red for fire blue and red for police and blue only for ambulance

That's nice. Most people have no problem with blue for all ES here. But if Argentina do it, then that must be the best way

I've also noted the thread to do with private blue lights and this is becoming a problem and another reasons regulation is needed,

There is regulation. Blue is the colour! Privates can use blue too.

in moscow in the 80's civillians could call into a police station and for a large fee buy a blue light for their car which obviously resulted in chaos, I know i'm going of the thread but their seems to be blues lights going everywhere and alot with untrained drivers not always going to calls either and thats not directed at any one service

Which is nothing to do with anything here.

You didn't mention it this time, but as I said already, there is no need or benefit from civilians being able to identify ES vehicles as a major incident (which was your original argument). None of your other arguments make much sense to me either.

Bosco boy

we're all entitled to our opinions, but I have to disagree with you on this one dredre

donvito99

I know in Spain that Ambulances use amber lights...



..confused easily IMO with works vehicles.

source

Blue for all works, it's easier for motorists if they have to only remember to get out of the way of blue lights, which lets face it, most motorists panic and don't know what to do when blue lights appear behind them, without throwing other colours into the mix.

On the subject of using red lights, here in Ireland red lights cannot be shown to the front of a vehicle.....only to the rear.

ivabiggon

http://fire.kilkennycoco.ie/Our_Fleet/KK_16_Callan/KK16A1_Callan/

tell that to kilkenney fire service

Tango Alpha 51

ivabiggon wrote: »

http://fire.kilkennycoco.ie/Our_Fleet/KK_16_Callan/KK16A1_Callan/

tell that to kilkenney fire service

I remember a few years back that there was some talk from the EU inrelation to changing ES lighting. From memory it went as follows:

Gardai/Police: Blue/Blue

Ambulance: Blue/Green

Fire Service: Blue/Red

This was never adopted officially but have seen appliances from various F&R ie the above quoted Kilkenny, Limerick County, Waterford County using the blue & red flashbar at the front.

ivabiggon

thats right there was talk but didn't happen, personally i think red and blue is the way to go, makes more sense, visibility and all

G_R

OP, i really cant see the point in your argument tbh, It is very easy to tell a garda car, ambulance and fire engine apart, very easy. The actual vehicles are different colours, shapes and sizes. Look at the 3 photos below, are you really telling me you would find it hard to tell them apart and need the lights to be colour coded aswell as the vehicles them selves??

source

ivabiggon wrote: »

http://fire.kilkennycoco.ie/Our_Fleet/KK_16_Callan/KK16A1_Callan/

tell that to kilkenney fire service

Maybe they haven't seen this, or maybe some special dispensation has been made for them but here is the Statutory Instrument that brought it into effect.

S.I. No. 166/1934 — The Lighting of Vehicles Regulations, 1934.
Red lamps

12. It shall not be lawful to carry in or on any vehicle a lamp showing a red light unless either :—

(a) such lamp is invisible to persons outside such vehicle, or

(b) such lamp is a rear lamp which complies with the provisions of these regulations in relation to rear lamps.

Op here are the regulations that cover emergency lighting in Ireland:

Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Blue and Amber Lamps) Regulations 2006


I, Martin Cullen, Minister for Transport, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 11 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 (No. 24 of 1961) and the National Roads and Road Traffic (Transfer of Departmental Administration and Ministerial Functions) Order 2002 ( S.I. No. 298 of 2002 ) (as adapted by the Public Enterprise (Alteration of Name of Department and Title of Minister) Order 2002 ( S.I. No. 305 of 2002 )), hereby make the following regulations:

1. (1) These Regulations may be cited as the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Blue and Amber Lamps) Regulations 2006.

(2) The Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 to 1996 and these Regulations may be cited together as the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 to 2006.

2. In these Regulations “Regulations of 1963” means Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 ( S.I. No. 189 of 1963 ).

3. Article 49 of the Regulations of 1963 is amended by inserting after sub-article (8) the following:

“(9) Where a vehicle equipped with a lamp in accordance with article 52(18) is used in a public place, the lamp may only be used -

(a) if necessary in the circumstances, and

(b) in the case of a vehicle being used by the Irish Prison Service, where the vehicle is clearly identifiable as such by having appropriate livery, and is usable for the purpose of transporting prisoners under guard.”.

4. Article 52 of the Regulations of 1963 is amended by substituting for sub-article (18) (inserted by the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 1996 ( S.I. No. 137 of 1996 )) the following:

“(18) (a) The requirements of article 40 (in so far as it refers to articles 41, 42, 48 and 49) and articles 41, 42, 48 and 49 (except sub-article 9) do not apply to a lamp complying with paragraph (b) which is carried on a vehicle being used -

(i) by a member of the Garda Síochána in the performance of his or her duties as such member,

(ii) as a fire brigade vehicle,

(iii) by persons providing an ambulance service,

(iv) by the Irish Prison Service,

(v) as an Irish Marine Emergency Service vehicle, with or without a trailer,

(vi) for the delivery or collection of human transplant organs, human blood or human blood products,

(vii) as a breakdown vehicle,

(viii) as a road clearance vehicle,

(ix) as a road works vehicle,

(x) by a local authority (within the meaning of the Local Government Act 2001 (No. 37 of 2001)) or other person authorised by a local authority in the collection and disposal of refuse,

(xi) in the provision or maintenance of telephone services or of gas or electricity supply, or

(xii) as a Customs and Excise patrol vehicle.

(b) In relation to a lamp carried on a vehicle referred to in paragraph (a) -

(i) the light shown by the lamp shall in the case of a vehicle referred to in -

(I) paragraph (a) (i) to (vi), be blue, and

(II) paragraph (a) (vii) to (xii), be amber,

(ii) the power of the lamp where the colour of the light is -

(I) blue, shall not exceed 50 watts, and

(II) amber, shall not exceed 36 watts,

(iii) the lamp shall, where possible, be fitted on the roof of the vehicle on a point on its longitudinal axis,

(iv) no part of the illuminated surface of the lamp shall be less than 1.27 metres from the ground,

(v) the area of the orthogonal projection on to any vertical plane of that part of the lamp through which light is shown shall be capable of lying wholly within a square having sides of 230 millimetres in length,

(vi) the lamp, in the case of a road works vehicle, or a vehicle used in the provision or maintenance of telephone services or gas or electricity supply shall be lit only when the vehicle is in use at the scene of operations.

(c) In this sub-article -

‘breakdown vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for towing broken down mechanically propelled vehicles, trailers or semi-trailers to the nearest convenient place of safety or repair and includes a vehicle used in connection with and in the immediate vicinity of a breakdown;

‘Customs and Excise patrol vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used by an official of Customs and Excise in the performance of his or her duties as such official;

‘fire brigade vehicle’ means a vehicle used by a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 (No. 30 of 1981)) and includes a vehicle used by a senior fire officer in the performance of his or her duty as such officer;

‘Irish Marine Emergency Service vehicle’ includes a mechanically propelled vehicle, with or without a trailer, used by a senior manager in the Irish Marine Emergency Service in the performance of his or her duty as such officer;

‘road clearance vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for dealing with frost, ice or snow on roads and includes a vehicle used for cutting of roadside hedges or roadside grass verges or in the sweeping of roads;

‘road works vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used in connection with the construction, maintenance and improvement of roads or in connection with the provision and maintenance of water supplies, sewerage and drainage services;

‘senior fire officer’ means a fire officer not below the grade of Assistant Fire Officer (Prevention) but including the grades of Second Officer and Third Officer;

‘senior manager in the Irish Marine Emergency Service’ means an officer of the Irish Marine Emergency Service not below the grade of Divisional Officer.”.

GIVEN under my Official Seal,

31 May 2006





Martin Cullen

Minister for Transport.


EXPLANATORY NOTE

These Regulations consolidate and update the statutory provisions in relation to the use of flashing blue or amber warning lights on certain vehicles. Under the Regulations, blue flashing lights may be used on vehicles used by the Gardaí, the fire service, an ambulance service, the Irish Marine Emergency Service, the Irish Prison Service and vehicles used for the delivery or collection of human transplant organs, human blood or human blood products.

Amber lights may be used on a breakdown vehicle, a road clearance vehicle, a road works vehicle, a vehicle used in the collection and disposal of refuse, a vehicle used in the provision or maintenance of telephone services or of gas or electricity supply and a Customs and Excise patrol vehicle.

These Regulations complement the Road Traffic (Requirement to have Audible Warning Devices on Vehicles) Regulations, 2006 ( S.I. No. 340 of 2006 ) which amend the Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations, 1963 to 1996 to permit the use of sirens on certain vehicles.

maglite

I think the Op may be suggesting these look simular... But Those in this sort of car will nto deal directly with you, or if at all if you are walking.

Bosco boy

buzzman wrote: »

I remember a few years back that there was some talk from the EU inrelation to changing ES lighting. From memory it went as follows:

Gardai/Police: Blue/Blue

Ambulance: Blue/Green

Fire Service: Blue/Red

This was never adopted officially but have seen appliances from various F&R ie the above quoted Kilkenny, Limerick County, Waterford County using the blue & red flashbar at the front.

I'd have no problem with the above solution it would allow people to have the blue in case joe soap is still confused as to an emergency service and also distingush the services at night and at a scene for those who need the assistance of a particular service urgently.

source

Bosco boy wrote: »

I'd have no problem with the above solution it would allow people to have the blue in case joe soap is still confused as to an emergency service and also distingush the services at night and at a scene for those who need the assistance of a particular service urgently.

The fire brigade have flood lights on their trucks, which light the area up as though it's day, thereby removing the need for different colour flashing lights as you're suggesting.

also in a major incident like you're describing, generally....there will be a medical triage area set up, where everyone coming out of say...a massive building on fire, are herded to this triage area, until they're assessed. While the ambulance people are doing this the fire brigade will be putting out the fire and the gardai will come in to interview the people left out of the triage area.

There is no need for different colour flashing lights.

Bosco boy

foinse wrote: »

The fire brigade have flood lights on their trucks, which light the area up as though it's day, thereby removing the need for different colour flashing lights as you're suggesting.

also in a major incident like you're describing, generally....there will be a medical triage area set up, where everyone coming out of say...a massive building on fire, are herded to this triage area, until they're assessed. While the ambulance people are doing this the fire brigade will be putting out the fire and the gardai will come in to interview the people left out of the triage area.

There is no need for different colour flashing lights.

I have been at a number of serious incidents involving all the agencies and have yet to see what you have described happen, vehicles drive into a scene not always in an orderly fashion and it takes a time to get lighting in place so I wouldnt be relying on that to light up the different vehicles, think its there to assist personnel, in relation to casualties I was not just taking about walking wounded, people are often assisting seriously injured people maybe also trying to get them away from a dangerous scene and to be able to identify say an ambulance easily could save precious time, regulations can also be amended easily, I just think it would improve the overall service

I think keep it blue all around. As already mentioned a lot of people don't seem to know what to do with blue lights behind them without confusing them even more.

It doesn't matter what colour lights are on an emergency vehicle as they will not be parked directly beside the fire / exit. If people do come out of a smoke filled building they will more than likely run into a firefighter who will then bring them to medical personnel or treat them themselves if necessary.

Gardai will be on the outskirts of an incident, keeping muppets away and answering stupid question such as "Is there a fire?", with the fire services in control (unless they are the first ones there).

Also, this thread seems to be going around in circles.

Bosco boy

foreign wrote: »

I think keep it blue all around. As already mentioned a lot of people don't seem to know what to do with blue lights behind them without confusing them even more.

It doesn't matter what colour lights are on an emergency vehicle as they will not be parked directly beside the fire / exit. If people do come out of a smoke filled building they will more than likely run into a firefighter who will then bring them to medical personnel or treat them themselves if necessary.

Gardai will be on the outskirts of an incident, keeping muppets away and answering stupid question such as "Is there a fire?", with the fire services in control (unless they are the first ones there).

Also, this thread seems to be going around in circles.

There certainly are muppets out there as we all know and most of them are easily confused and bemused and never cease to surprise you with the daftest of questions and theories on whats happening at a scene and what should be happening. I even reckon that my lights system might even be muppet proof!!!

dredre

Bosco boy wrote: »

in the case of a major emergency

a number of serious incidents

Decide which you are talking about. A major emergency is exactly that, 'serious incidents' happen all the time. They are not the same thing.

You don't seem to be grasping, that none of the planning for major incidents involves civilians needing to know what vehicle is what. Never mind the fact that ES will not be hanging around the vehicles waiting for people to come up to them - they will be in the thick of it doing their job. So chances are the ambulances will be empty (of paramedics and equipment!).

On the other hand, if you have some special insight to major incident planning that the collected wisdom of ES here and internationally have missed, perhaps you could share it with us and devise a better system. However, until you understand what you're talking about, I think you should acknowledge that the system in place has worked well in the past and the lights don't matter.

Bosco boy

dredre wrote: »

Decide which you are talking about. A major emergency is exactly that, 'serious incidents' happen all the time. They are not the same thing.

You don't seem to be grasping, that none of the planning for major incidents involves civilians needing to know what vehicle is what. Never mind the fact that ES will not be hanging around the vehicles waiting for people to come up to them - they will be in the thick of it doing their job. So chances are the ambulances will be empty (of paramedics and equipment!).

On the other hand, if you have some special insight to major incident planning that the collected wisdom of ES here and internationally have missed, perhaps you could share it with us and devise a better system. However, until you understand what you're talking about, I think you should acknowledge that the system in place has worked well in the past and the lights don't matter.

like I said previously Deidre we are all entitled to our opinion and ours differs. if you want to split hairs over serious incident and major emergency well I've been at both at night and feel the need for a difference in lighting would help even in serious incidents in some cases depending on the response to the incident by EM. I have no special insight into major incident planning but this is just an observation of mine from having attended at scenes. Planning in all walks of life evolves and changes in most cases for the better and just cause a regulation is here now dosent mean it could not be looked at and is set in stone. I disagree with you in relation to civillians as they are a serious consideration when dealing with such emergencies, very often they are the casualties!!!

dredre

Bosco boy wrote: »

I have no special insight into major incident planning

QED

civdef

if you want to split hairs over serious incident and major emergency well I've been at both at night

When was the last major emergency at night?

Bosco boy

civdef wrote: »

When was the last major emergency at night?

I'm not going to speak about specific incidents for many reasons and I feel I should not be asked to do so as its against the charter and in some cases insensitive. We are fooling ourselves if we think that major emergencies dont happen at night because they do and we all know that and should prepare for them at night as well as day. My arguement also relates to serious incidents where alot of vehicles attend as I stated earlier. Thankfully deidre not everyone attending the scene of a major Emergency or serious incident has to have a degree in planning or we would have no one to go. Members of the EMS have much experience between them and this should not be discounted so easily, I feel its an area that will eventually be regulated by an EU directive which an earlier poster stated is being considered. Thanks for the debate, I rest my case.

dredre

Bosco boy wrote: »

I'm not going to speak about specific incidents for many reasons

Because you weren't at them? They are not secrets you know!

and I feel I should not be asked to do so as its against the charter and in some cases insensitive.

No it is not. We aren't asking you to go into detail, merely tell us of a major incident that you were at at night time.

We are fooling ourselves if we think that major emergencies dont happen at night because they do and we all know that and should prepare for them at night as well as day. My arguement also relates to serious incidents where alot of vehicles attend as I stated earlier.

And has been successfully rebutted, but you choose to ignore the fact that at a major emergency (or even a serious incident) these vehicles will likely not have staff or equipment in them and we do not want people wandering around towards what they think are the 'appropriate' vehicles. You also continue to ignore the distinction between 'serious' and 'major'.

Thankfully deidre not everyone attending the scene of a major Emergency or serious incident has to have a degree in planning or we would have no one to go.

Not a degree, just some basic training as highlighted earlier.

Members of the EMS have much experience between them and this should not be discounted so easily,

Are you a member of EMS? the other ES service members posting here do not seem to agree with you.

I feel its an area that will eventually be regulated by an EU directive which an earlier poster stated is being considered. Thanks for the debate, I rest my case.

Perhaps. It is good that you have the inside track on EU directives also.

DubMedic

OP, this is going around in circles because you are not forthcoming with information.. in what role did you attend these 'incidents'.. fire/garda/amb/other?.


.

Bosco boy

dredre wrote: »

Because you weren't at them? They are not secrets you know!



No it is not. We aren't asking you to go into detail, merely tell us of a major incident that you were at at night time.



And has been successfully rebutted, but you choose to ignore the fact that at a major emergency (or even a serious incident) these vehicles will likely not have staff or equipment in them and we do not want people wandering around towards what they think are the 'appropriate' vehicles. You also continue to ignore the distinction between 'serious' and 'major'.



Not a degree, just some basic training as highlighted earlier.



Are you a member of EMS? the other ES service members posting here do not seem to agree with you.




Perhaps. It is good that you have the inside track on EU directives also.

for the record I am a member of the emergency services with over 15 years service and have worked in Dublin and outside of it and have great respect for all the services and friends in them all, I will not talk about specific incidents is it is not appropiate and they will end up getting discussed and yes I have attended at them and dont want to be identified and I have a right to anonimity, if you had attended similar incidents you would understand its not appropiate to do so. Yes some of them have been classed as Major emergencies. Thanks for the debate again

dredre

Bosco boy wrote: »

for the record I am a member of the emergency services with over 15 years service and have worked in Dublin and outside of it and have great respect for all the services and friends in them all, I will not talk about specific incidents is it is not appropiate and they will end up getting discussed and yes I have attended at them and dont want to be identified and I have a right to anonimity, if you had attended similar incidents you would understand its not appropiate to do so. Yes some of them have been classed as Major emergencies. Thanks for the debate again

Did you miss the major incident training then?

We don't want to know who you are, only what 'incidents' you attended.

I don't believe you.

Hooch

Hi there,
Before you post anymore please read the very first part of our charter.

ES Charter wrote:

# This forum is for the discussion of emergency services in general and is open to all posters, whether they are serving / former members of an emergency service, prospective members or just have an interest. That said, if a member makes false claims as to their membership of a service this will result in an immediate and permanent ban.

While you do have the right to anonimity, if you say your ES then you must be ES....not pretending to.

Now that said, ambulance sevice reaction to a major emergency is that once a methane message is given out the the first crew that arrives are to take the role of forward ambulance officer and the communication officer. The first ambulance is the only one that leave its blue lights on so that other arriving ambos know where to go for instructions. (Serving Paras might be able to confirm this....???)

To be honest I dont think we should change light colours. Plenty blues on the front, reds on the back and alternating headlights will do fine. Just my two cents

Bosco boy

nice guy always wrote: »

Hi there,
Before you post anymore please read the very first part of our charter.



While you do have the right to anonimity, if you say your ES then you must be ES....not pretending to.

Now that said, ambulance sevice reaction to a major emergency is that once a methane message is given out the the first crew that arrives are to take the role of forward ambulance officer and the communication officer. The first ambulance is the only one that leave its blue lights on so that other arriving ambos know where to go for instructions. (Serving Paras might be able to confirm this....???)

To be honest I dont think we should change light colours. Plenty blues on the front, reds on the back and alternating headlights will do fine. Just my two cents

I am a member of the emergency services as I have stated and I have read the charter.

Shield

We love having people with 15 years experience on this forum - but 15 years experience with who? Fire Brigade? Ambulance? Gardai? Once we know, we can at least learn from your knowledge, while at the same time you can stay completely anonymous.

Just a thought...

Bosco boy

psni wrote: »

We love having people with 15 years experience on this forum - but 15 years experience with who? Fire Brigade? Ambulance? Gardai? Once we know, we can at least learn from your knowledge, while at the same time you can stay completely anonymous.

Just a thought...

thanks for the flattery PSNI, hope it was genuine, I'm in the same job as yourself but south of the border for the record if its so important!

Paulzx

Bosco boy wrote: »

I'm in the same job as yourself but south of the border for the record if its so important!

PSNI south of the border

Shield

I think we can safely close this thread now that all sides have had their say.

Thanks.