Rookie Marathoner with a ton of questions

Pisco Sour

Hey all, I'm looking to run my first marathon in Rotterdam next April. However my knowledge of how to prepare for a marathon is very limited. A few questions:

1) Last April I ran a Half Marathon in Wexford. I started training from scratch (hadnt ran in 8 months, though I'm naturally quite fit) 9 weeks before the race. In that time I ran 11 times in training : 5.2k, 6.3k, 7k, 5.2k, 9k, 10.4k, 14.1k, 10.4k, 17.6k, 10k, 7k. I ran the Half Marathon in 1hr 49.06 which was under my goal time of 1hr50. Based on this I was wondering how much training would be needed for my first marathon? No particular time goal as long. As long as I run in or around 4.00 to 4.15 then I'd be happy.

2) When doing long training runs how do you carry water and energy bars around with you? If I'm running long training runs then its a must to have these with me. What does everyone else do regarding this?

3) What should I wear when doing long runs in the pissing rain?

4) What should I wear when doing long runs in freezing cold/ windy conditions

5) What exactly happens when you hit "The Wall"? What happens to your body? How long does it take before you have gone past this stage of the Marathon? Is it just a mile or two or does it last for the whole of the final 6 miles?

6) What is the best way to avoid hitting the wall?

7) Is there any sort of electronic pacer that you can get for running that measures your current speed, average speed etc? and where can this be bought if theres such a thing?

Lots of questions i know, but any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure more questions will come to me later but thought it would be better to have them all on the one thread rather than open up loads of threads

Thanks

RoyMcC

1. You're in a good position to train for Rotterdam. Get hold of a programme that suits you and follow it. You'll get as many opinions on here as there are posters.

You are right not to plan for a time - until you've run one or two you've no idea how your body will react beyond Mile 20.

2. A water belt. You don't notice it after a while. Maybe pin gels to your waistband and tuck inside.

3. Same as normal, perhaps with a lightweight rainjacket.

4. Same as 3, maybe with an extra T-shirt and certainly wooly hat and gloves.

5. Basically your body runs out of glycogen reserves (energy) and starts using fat reserves (I think). Never had the pleasure of hitting it so I can't advise.

6. Ensure your body retains sufficient energy reserves, but easier said than done.

7. I imagine the Garmin can do this stuff, but I've never spent the time to find out. I'd just set your Garmin to one-mile laps and check your split as each mile rolls over.

Good luck.

Ruarl Runner

Greetings...

I'll have a stab at a few of your queries, I am doing DCM which will be my 2nd marathon this year... I am sure you will get feedback from others who are far more experienced than myself.

1) Training needs to be consistent however make sure you don't build up the milage too quickly (use 10% as a rule of thumb). Also incorporate 'step-back' weeks as this will assist in terms of resting before progressing to another level i.e. a longer LSR. However the amount of training you do all depends on the amount of time you can commit.

2) You could invest in a gel belt, personally I don't carry anything. I simply put the drinks, gels etc... in small plastic bags and leave them along the route the night before. Oh and be sure to collect the rubbish afterwards!!

3) In the rain I use a running jacket, price all depends on your budget. I have a technical Adidas running jacket, that said I picked up a great running jacket in Aldi last year... I use this for both the cold and wet training runs. Gloves and a cap/hat are also optional for wet n cold weather

4) See # 3

5) Ah the wall... Not everyone hits the wall... Really depends on preparation, pace, hydration, etc...

6) see # 5

7)I am using a Garmin 305, bit bulky but does me for distance, time, pacing, heart-rate etc.. Got it on ebay for a reasonable price. There are also cheaper versions such as the Garmin 201 and 301 that will do almost the same job...

Good luck with it... :D:D

plodder

04072511 wrote: »

Hey all, I'm looking to run my first marathon in Rotterdam next April. However my knowledge of how to prepare for a marathon is very limited. A few questions:

3) What should I wear when doing long runs in the pissing rain?

Your only concern should be to stay warm, rather than dry. So, wear just enough layers, to not get cold.

4) What should I wear when doing long runs in freezing cold/ windy conditions

same as above. Hat, running jacket are the basics for winter running. Some people wear gloves and other stuff as well.

6) What is the best way to avoid hitting the wall?

Training and pacing. The more long training runs you do, the more your body gets accustomed to metabolising fat as well as carbohydrate. Arguably, the optimim situation is where you run out of carbohydrate based fuel right on the finish line, i.e your body is able to burn just enough fat, to conserve the glycogen right up to the end. Pacing is important because the faster you run the quicker you use up the glycogen. So, if this is your first marathon, you'll want to rely on pacing yourself realistically.

7) Is there any sort of electronic pacer that you can get for running that measures your current speed, average speed etc? and where can this be bought if theres such a thing?

I wouldn't bother with one for your first marathon. Use a regular watch and a pacing band (for the race). Measure the lengths of your trainign runs and keep a log. You can time them as well, if you want to know your pace. But if you're bitten by the bug, then the Garmin Forerunner 305 or 405 are worth their weight in gold.

Woddle

Rotterdam, I'll be seeing you there and from Monday it'll be 24 weeks to the day
I would advise you to buy this book also referred to by some as the bible
Advanced marathoning
Regarding the rain and pretty much throughout the winter I'll wear a wind/water proof jacket aswell as cold under armour
Check out Wiggle for good value running gear
Also in the winter carrying water to stay hydrated probably isn't as big a concern as it is in the winter but what I do use when I have to is a camelback belt that I wear on my hip that holds I think 850 ml and has a couple of pockets for gels and stuff, I picked it up in 53 degrees North in Carrickmines.
Regarding the wall train well and carbo load before and take carbs on throughout the marathon and you won't hit it.
For your last question check out the garmin 405 it is a gps watch and very accurate, I love mine.

Pisco Sour

Thanks for the replies.

Few more questions:

8) How reliable is the Garmin timer thing? Will it easily loose signal during a run and stop measuring my time and distance? I run in Marlay Park which is full of trees. Will this affect the signal? Is it usual for the signal to dissappear from time to time?

9) By what method can you measure your speed on Garmin? Does it just measure speed in MPH or KmPH, or can you measure the speed of how fast you are doing a km or a mile (for example if you want to run a 6min km can you measure your speed in this way, so its clear how fast you are running each km or mile in?)

10) Also I'd want to get a medical check up before I start marathon training. I'm 100% certain there would be no problems but I just want to cover myself. What is the best way to get a medical check-up? Should I just get a check-up with my GP or would something more be required?

11) Is there any stores in Dublin (not online) where you can buy Gels, Running Jackets and water belts?

Thanks

How Strange

04072511 wrote: »

When doing long training runs how do you carry water and energy bars around with you? If I'm running long training runs then its a must to have these with me. What does everyone else do regarding this?

I did my lsr's during August/Sept and I accustomed myself to hydrate well on the days before the run, drink some water (a glass or two) that morning, after 8 miles drink 100ml of water, then carry about 25ml of lucozade sport and sip that. I'd normally drink half a bottle of lucozade sport and 500ml water after the run to replace lost salts and rehydrate. I found this great, I never took gels and I learned to get used to using the stored carbs for energy. I read somewhere that this is a good way to train your body to use carbs and function on low glycogen levels. Using this method, if you drink lucozade sport on marathon day your body will get the full benefit of the extra sugar.

I've dropped out of Dublin marathon (again, ) so don't know if it would've worked or not but plan to do Rotterdam next year too and will stick to this.

I used gels last year for lsr training and I found they were too sugary and my blood sugar levels were always dipping which is something that happens to me if I am eating too much sugar and my skin was in terrible condition so I swore I'd stay away from them this year.

How reliable is the Garmin timer thing? By what method can you measure your speed on Garmin? Does it just measure speed in MPH or KmPH, or can you measure the speed of how fast you are doing a km or a mile

I use a garmin forerunner 50 with footpod. It's the basic model without bells and whistles but it works for me. I get a reading of mph/kmph and after using it for a few months I've learned what is my lsr pace, fast pace, race pace and I think marathon pace.

mrak

Jayz you weren't kidding about the ton of questions.


8) Garmin is Pretty reliable. Works for me in a woods forest trail - the 205 lost connect the odd time but the 305 doesn't (haven't got a 405 but I can only assume it's better again). Usually fairly accurate - certainly enough for your needs. Haven't used it in about a year mind - I'd go along with the fellow that said a watch is enough, but I liked it while I was using it so if you have the spare dosh it's no harm.

9) you can measure speed in whatever you want - min/mile is my norm. It's easy to switch and you can display a load of stuff on the screen (heart rate, miles done, etc).

10) No medical expert - if you are doing 1:49 half off that low mileage I'd guess you're ok - safe answer is to say "get a checkup" but hypocrytical as I never did when getting started.

11) Imo Lidl/Aldi are the best for reasonable and good jackets but you have to keep an eye out for them - elvery's or any store will have all that stuff. You don't need gels until the last part of your marathon training so don't panic.

Main thing is have decent runners, ramp up easy and keep a log of your mileage to make sure you aren't ramping up too quick.

Pisco Sour

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Was wondering what sort of pace should I aim for throughout, 4hr pace or 4hr15 pace? Having done a half marathon in 1hr49 in a reasonable hilly course, how would this translate to a very flat marathon course? (I dont like the mcmillan calculator to be honest).

Would 6min Km's be the best way to go (4hr 12 pace) and if I'm feeling strong towards the end I could push on?

One thing I've never really done, is run well within myself. That will be a new experience, to run slow. Can this be difficult to get used to? Running very slowly almost feels like dragging my feet a bit, this can prove quite tiring.

Woddle

No need to predict your marathon time yet, most schedules have a 10 mile or 1/2 marathon race 4 weeks beforehand and this will give you a better idea.
Sub 4 would be well within you if your already running a 1'49 half.
Rotterdam is 24 weeks away this Monday which is plenty of time.

Regarding what pace to run, it can be quite simple keep the easy days easy but to me that does not mean it has to be painfully slow just make sure you don't turn it into a session, thats what the hard days are for.
Pace regarding the long run, on your first few lsrs do them slow and learn from them but as you feel more comfortable with them, start increasing the pace and do a search for predator runs and predicted marathon pace runs.

I booked my flights and hotel for Rotterdam about an hour ago

Pisco Sour

Woddle wrote: »

No need to predict your marathon time yet, most schedules have a 10 mile or 1/2 marathon race 4 weeks beforehand and this will give you a better idea.
Sub 4 would be well within you if your already running a 1'49 half.
Rotterdam is 24 weeks away this Monday which is plenty of time.

Regarding what pace to run, it can be quite simple keep the easy days easy but to me that does not mean it has to be painfully slow just make sure you don't turn it into a session, thats what the hard days are for.
Pace regarding the long run, on your first few lsrs do them slow and learn from them but as you feel more comfortable with them, start increasing the pace and do a search for predator runs and predicted marathon pace runs.

I booked my flights and hotel for Rotterdam about an hour ago

Thanks.

I think I'm going to run 3 times a week (dont want to brun myself out). 2 short runs during the week, in the evenings after work (tuesday and thursday perhaps) about 4 miles or so each, and then at the weekend do 1 LSR. Would that work?

Also what hotel did you book? How expensive is it?

plodder

04072511 wrote: »

Thanks.

I think I'm going to run 3 times a week (dont want to brun myself out). 2 short runs during the week, in the evenings after work (tuesday and thursday perhaps) about 4 miles or so each, and then at the weekend do 1 LSR. Would that work?

Also what hotel did you book? How expensive is it?

You'd be better off finding an actual program to follow, because there are certain training principles to follow, which you wouldn't need to worry about then. There is a beginner's program on the Dublin marathon site, which I used for the first few years, and I was able to do a 4 hr marathon out of it. But, there are loads of others around on the web.

Woddle

04072511 wrote: »

Thanks.

I think I'm going to run 3 times a week (dont want to brun myself out). 2 short runs during the week, in the evenings after work (tuesday and thursday perhaps) about 4 miles or so each, and then at the weekend do 1 LSR. Would that work?

Also what hotel did you book? How expensive is it?

I'll pm you the hotel I'm in, I'm staying for 2 nights and its costing me 178 euro but it is quite close to the start/finish.
I think 3 times a week is fine for the first couple of weeks till you get a rhythm going but ideally 5 days to give yourself a fair crack at it.

How Strange

Woddle wrote: »

I'll pm you the hotel I'm in, I'm staying for 2 nights and its costing me 178 euro but it is quite close to the start/finish.
I think 3 times a week is fine for the first couple of weeks till you get a rhythm going but ideally 5 days to give yourself a fair crack at it.

Could you PM me too with those details?

I'm seriously considering Rotterdam next year and if so want to get accomodation sorted.

Pisco Sour

My main fear would be to have put in all the work and then not make it to the start line because of an injury. Such a thing would be gutting after devoting so much time to it. So what would be the best ways of avoiding injuries? Mixing the long runs between Grass and pavement?

Pisco Sour

Went for my first slow run yesterday. Did 4.5 miles in 41 minutes, so around 6 minute km pace. It felt very weird running slowly.

I'm getting really caught up in the excitement of running a marathon. In many ways I wish I didnt have to wait 6 months. It seems forever away, almost seems too long.

A bit jealous of all those running tomorrow. Would love to be out there. I've never been the most patient person :-)

Woddle

Get out and watch them, the buzz is nearly as good, I think I've watched as many races this year as I've ran in, it's a nice substitute

Pisco Sour

Woddle wrote: »

Get out and watch them, the buzz is nearly as good, I think I've watched as many races this year as I've ran in, it's a nice substitute

I plan on doing so. It will provide good inspiration. A kind of "if he can do it then so can I" type thing. Though I imagine after watching it its going to make me want to do one even more. The thoughts of waiting nearly 6 months is a killer.:D

jfh

hi guy, i'm also planning on doing rotterdam, need a goal to keep me running over the winter, took off few weeks after dublin, but rearing to go again, my question is did you book flights & hotel, know aer lingus have a sale but it doesn't extend till april. Figured flying into amsterdam was easiest way, also

took woddles advice and bought that book(advanced marathoning). really excellent, great marathon plan, but few weeks behind his 24 week training plan, i presume still have enough time to catch up?

this is my first winter training, got soaked earlier so any advice on winter gear would be appreciated also. missed out on that aldi sale, any opinions on a winter jacket, should it be rain proof or just wind proof.
thank you