Starting work with investment bank

venturegambler

When starting work in an investment bank straight out of college and with no professional experience what are the working conditions like?

Can you choose which department you want to work in?

What are the working hours?

What are the study hours needed per week and how much time off is given for exams?

What exams are done when you start off and do you have a choice if you have a preference eg, CFA exams are the standard?

If you undertake to do accountancy exams and you have a preference to do ACCA exams instead of ICAI exams is that allowed without any hassle?

What is the level of knowledge expected from a new intake in the first three months?

How will the intake this coming summer differ from previous years?

wing52

You could do worse than read "city boy" by Geraint Anderson.

It's a sort of "what not to do " book, the author supposedly

made a complete pig of himself and ended up a bit of a mess!

It's a fairly entertaining read as well.

Antother lesser related books would be written by Mark Shipman.

But they're more for long term stuff,more use to you than an investment

institution. Hope that bit helps.

venturegambler

I read it. Very entertaining read. I will take that with a big pinch of salt though. The more entertaining he made it, the more scandal the more copies he sells. I saw a couple of TV interviews he did and I got the vibe that he is the type to exaggerate things for the sake of a good story. I found it interesting that he starts out by saying he was into every drug known to man and then spend something like six years where his sole motivation every day was to get a higher ranking that some arrogant guy in a rival bank. By the end of the book all i could think was what a prat. It had the same appeal as the da vinci code where when you are stuck into the book you are there thinking you know maybe there is something to this but when your finished with the book you realise the truth may have been stretched a hell of a lot

pocketdooz

venturegambler wrote: »

When starting work in an investment bank straight out of college and with no professional experience what are the working conditions like?

Very tough and demanding.

Can you choose which department you want to work in?

No

What are the working hours?

Between 75 and 100 per week

What are the study hours needed per week and how much time off is given for exams?

None

What exams are done when you start off and do you have a choice if you have a preference eg, CFA exams are the standard?

None - you can do the CFAs if you want but it'll be on your own time

If you undertake to do accountancy exams and you have a preference to do ACCA exams instead of ICAI exams is that allowed without any hassle?

Why would you want to be an accountant if you have a job in an investment bank?

What is the level of knowledge expected from a new intake in the first three months?

Zero - forget all the BS you think you know - they will want a blank canvas to mould into whatever form their culture dictates.

How will the intake this coming summer differ from previous years?

More than 2008 and 2009 and less than 2006 and 2007

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5Aces

75-100 hours per week? every week? why would you do that if your just out of college?

5Aces

5Aces wrote: »

75-100 hours per week? every week? why would you do that if your just out of college?

For the money.

I used to want that lifestyle and signed on for the CFA Level 1 December 08 exams. Then I got an accounting job and realized I didn't handle stress well so am gonna stay clear of proper stressful jobs.

vinylbomb

5Aces wrote: »

75-100 hours per week? every week? why would you do that if your just out of college?

Because if you don't you'll be shown the door. I worked in the pension investment fund of a large insurance company in London for a while, if you weren't doing 70+ hours a week you may as well have not been showing up in the eyes of the bosses.

I have a mate who worked with a leading hedge fund in London, straight from graduation. He told me a story about one time going to work at 7 am on Monday morning, and leaving at 10pm Thursday. Obviously there were beds etc int he office, but he said you would be lucky to get 5 hours kip a night.

Its savage money for absolutely backbreaking work.

5Aces

does it make a difference how much you earn if you dont have the time to spend it, enjoy life, spend time with your lady friend, friends, family, ect. buying the most expensive bottle of wine on the menu while your mercedes sits in the most visable spot outside is not going to comfort you on your deathbed folks!

venturegambler

That is one consideration. I really like finance but I also value the social life.

What are the different areas of work within finance and what are the typical working conditions and starting salaries?

I also have an accounting degree and management accounting in particular always interested me.

MacStacked

5Aces wrote: »

does it make a difference how much you earn if you dont have the time to spend it, enjoy life, spend time with your lady friend, friends, family, ect. buying the most expensive bottle of wine on the menu while your mercedes sits in the most visable spot outside is not going to comfort you on your deathbed folks!

I would rather bust my balls for 75hrs a week at a job that is amongst the most challenging, exciting and rewarding in the world.

Yes straight out of college for the first 7/8 years so what, and give myself a great chance to build myself a level of wealth that will enable me to spend my winters in the caribbean and an enormous amount of time with a still very young family.

Oh and the 75+ hours a week is tough but traders in general lead a pretty good social life..work hard play hard. Some people aren't cut out for it but if you work hard enough and have enough talent you can have a great quality of life from a very young age.

pocketdooz

5Aces wrote: »

does it make a difference how much you earn if you dont have the time to spend it, enjoy life, spend time with your lady friend, friends, family, ect. buying the most expensive bottle of wine on the menu while your mercedes sits in the most visable spot outside is not going to comfort you on your deathbed folks!

Is there a point to this tirade ?

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5Aces

More so talking outloud to myself than trying to make a point to you all. im in more or less same position as op and looking for an honest summary of the big picture. how many hours per week is too much that it really impacts on your life outside of work by losing touch with good friends and having the girlfriend get fed up that she has to be the 3rd wheel with her friends yet again? im honestly not having a go, im just at the crossroads and looking for a genuine insiders view rather than looking at yet another brochure where people look like they are having the time of their lives in the office. what is the reality?

DJDC

If you undertake to do accountancy exams and you have a preference to do ACCA exams instead of ICAI exams is that allowed without any hassle?

Why would you want to be an accountant if you have a job in an investment bank?

The guy is probably aiming for one of the Dublin "investment banking" jobs in the IFSC back offices of JP, Citi etc. were most of them are in fact accoutants. In that case he wont work more than 50 hours a week and he won't need a CFA, SII, CQA or anything remotely quantitative. If hes aiming for FO jobs in London..well he needs to step up his knowledge of the industry big time.

venturegambler

"If hes aiming for FO jobs in London..well he needs to step up his knowledge of the industry big time."


I dont just yet have a target I am looking for guidance, the university is pretty much useless for information. I want to do the trading in about three years or less as well as the analysis of the financial statements/industry. Can anyone recommend how I can step up my knowledge of the industry?

vinylbomb

venturegambler wrote: »

"I want to do the trading in about three years or less as well as the analysis of the financial statements/industry.

Well, for one you defo wont do both. You'll trade, or be an analyst.
To be honest, a lot of the traders I met never went to university, they applied for internships in their last 2 years of school and progressed from there.
Analysts come for anything that has heavy maths as a background, so an arts degree with statistics, a physics degree, maybe computer science too.

vinylbomb

MacStacked wrote: »

Yes straight out of college for the first 7/8 years so what, and give myself a great chance to build myself a level of wealth that will enable me to spend my winters in the caribbean and an enormous amount of time with a still very young family

Theres only maybe a half dozen bankers world wide who have attained the level of wealth you are talking about by 33 or 34. Most people slog at it, earning a few hundred grand a year until they are in their early-mid thirties, and then they quit because of the burnout. At that stage they have a nice little nest egg, but nothing like enough to retire on, and certainly not popping off to the Caribbean for 4 months a year. Remember, even while you're earning 200,000 a year you'll be spending a shed load living the banker lifestyle. Certainly in London

pocketdooz

vinylbomb wrote: »

Theres only maybe a half dozen bankers world wide who have attained the level of wealth you are talking about. Most people slog at it, earning a few hundred grand a year until they are in their early-mid thirties, and then they quit because of the burnout. At that stage they have a nice little nest egg, but nothing like enough to retire on, and certainly not popping off to the Caribbean for 4 months a year. Remember, even while you're earning 200,000 a year you'll be spending a shed load living the banker lifestyle. Certainly in London

That's crazy talk

Personally, without even thinking hard, I can name over 20 who have this wealth by 30-33.

The thing is they don't retire because they love the work, the chalenge and the people in the industry.

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displaced dub

right, firstly i dont work in the "financial industry" so i might be wide of the mark here...

I personally found the enjoyment of my work comes first money a distant second. Is there logic to this probably not, but if your good at your job keep the head down and more importantly dont get ahead of yourself the financial rewards follow.

In my business there are plenty of millionaires and also even more people who have a very very good standard of living, but if you ask the successful ones what drives them im pretty sure its not just the money.

pocketdooz

displaced dub wrote: »

right, firstly i dont work in the "financial industry" so i might be wide of the mark here...

I personally found the enjoyment of my work comes first money a distant second. Is there logic to this probably not, but if your good at your job keep the head down and more importantly dont get ahead of yourself the financial rewards follow.

In my business there are plenty of millionaires and also even more people who have a very very good standard of living, but if you ask the successful ones what drives them im pretty sure its not just the money.

Likewise - I love my job.

I also work very long hours and in a high pressure environment.

And I work in the finance industry.

Believe it or not some people actually enjoy this sh1t !

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vinylbomb

Well, I'm not gonna get into a tit-for-tat argument, I worked in IT supporting finance (hedge fund and pension fund) in London for a few years.
I know a good few traders/analysts who were making up to about a half million a year, but going above that amount you'd be looking at junior partners or senior analysts.

Either way this is OT, can we agree that the OP can expect to work hard (and be driven in a certain direction to begin with, as opposed to choosing) and be handsomely remunerated if he enters the world of finance

daveirl

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venturegambler

How much is this mid thirties level of wealth that has been mentioned that is enough to spend a quarter of the year in the caribbean? What is a rough bracket of what a trader can expect to earn in their mid thirties in dublin and london?

daveirl

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MacStacked

vinylbomb wrote: »

Theres only maybe a half dozen bankers world wide who have attained the level of wealth you are talking about by 33 or 34. Most people slog at it, earning a few hundred grand a year until they are in their early-mid thirties, and then they quit because of the burnout. At that stage they have a nice little nest egg, but nothing like enough to retire on, and certainly not popping off to the Caribbean for 4 months a year. Remember, even while you're earning 200,000 a year you'll be spending a shed load living the banker lifestyle. Certainly in London

This is simply not true.

How can you possibly say that there are only 6 bankers in the world pulling in that wedge trading? Are you actually serious?

There are so many different types of traders from funds, banks, independent, props...that to imply that only a handful can achieve the level of success which enables them to retire in their early thirties is totally totally misleading.

There are traders in every major city in the world including Dublin who are doing this!

To the op: yes you will be required to work huge hours and there is pressure, but the job is hugely rewarding, financially almost without comparison but arguably more importantly the stimulating, dynamic and challenging nature of the work is unrivaled. The lifestyle if you work hard enough is incredible and not just limited to 6 bankers in London :rolleyes:

vinylbomb

OK, having re-read th post I can see that I didnt express what I meant to say at all clearly.

There aren't many people earning in excess of 3-4 million a year under 35. Theres some aberrations to this rule, because as noted its a meritocracy in finance.

What I was getting at is that using these figures it would take a min of 8 years to work up to this amount (and thats being generous), spend 2 years working at 4 mill per year and retire with enough to be self sustaining without working.

Theres not many guys who can pack up shop at 33/34 with 15 + million in their accounts.

daveirl

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venturegambler

After a bit of soul searching I am leaning towards management accountancy and hoping to progress on to general management with a good financial grounding. Thanks for the input lads. Now for the applications... Advice always appreciated.

ixus

Suggest you head to the Accounting forum then. Locking.