Wheel truing question

Rob_l

I got my back wheel straightened(trued) in a bike shop just a little over a month and haven't really paid that much notice since.

When I was doing some maintenance on the bike at the weekend i noticed that some of the spokes were loose and that one spoke was so loose I was able to tighten the spoke nipple by hand, there was no tension at all on this particular spoke.

Obviously this is something I will be checking more regularly from now on, but.

Should a spoke have been able to get that loose after being trued in a shop in just over a month?

Lumen

Rob_l wrote: »

Should a spoke have been able to get that loose after being trued in a shop in just over a month?

No. Which shop was it?

Rob_l

Lumen wrote: »

No. Which shop was it?

Im not sure if I should name the shop, will I not get into some sort of trouble for this

trad

If you hit a pot hole and put a hop into the wheel it's possible. Likewise a spoke can stretch if it has been over tensioned to true the wheel. Also the eyelet that the nipple sits into could be pulling through the rim. could also be sloppy workmanship. Needs investigation.

Chips Lovell

Rob_l wrote: »

Should a spoke have been able to get that loose after being trued in a shop in just over a month?

No. Find a better shop.

Lumen

Rob_l wrote: »

Im not sure if I should name the shop, will I not get into some sort of trouble for this

Since you're just stating facts, I don't see the problem. Mods?

Rob_l

trad wrote: »

If you hit a pot hole and put a hop into the wheel it's possible. Likewise a spoke can stretch if it has been over tensioned to true the wheel. Also the eyelet that the nipple sits into could be pulling through the rim. could also be sloppy workmanship. Needs investigation.

I dont think it was stretched as I was able to tighten it by hand and then further with a spoke key.

I had a look at the rim and from my basic knowledge it doesn't seem to be pulling through either.

The main reason I was looking at it was that it had seemed to warp a lot quicker after i got trued than when I first got the bike and I was less careful with it then than i am now. Simply tightening that one spoke brought the whole wheel back in line a lot more.

Ryaner

Shouldn't be any issues naming the shop. Loads get named on here from time to time.

I'd recommend Humphries if you decide to get it redone. Got a set of Open Pros from them. The rear wheel spokes came loose within the first 40km, brought it back and they rebuilt both wheels and put it down to bedding in. 3000km later and both are exactly as they were when I left the shop the second time. Few very large potholls since too. Never had wheels stay true this long.

trad

+1 for Humphreys.

Rob_l

Well in then in the case of it seems ok to name them.

The shop was the workshop of think bike in Rathmines.

doozerie

Ryaner wrote: »

I'd recommend Humphries if you decide to get it redone. Got a set of Open Pros from them. The rear wheel spokes came loose within the first 40km, brought it back and they rebuilt both wheels and put it down to bedding in. 3000km later and both are exactly as they were when I left the shop the second time. Few very large potholls since too. Never had wheels stay true this long.

Them explaining the problem with the back wheel as the spokes "bedding in" is a poor attempt, at best, at trying to justify what amounted to a badly built wheel. If this was such a normal occurrence as their phrase of "bedding in" suggests, then every bike shop would be seeing new wheels come back to them every day. If the spokes are properly tensioned, and stressed, as part of building the wheel then they don't come loose.

It sounds like they did the job right second time round, but they should have got it right first time round. That would make me wary of getting them to build wheels.

Ryaner

doozerie wrote: »

Them explaining the problem with the back wheel as the spokes "bedding in" is a poor attempt, at best, at trying to justify what amounted to a badly built wheel. If this was such a normal occurrence as their phrase of "bedding in" suggests, then every bike shop would be seeing new wheels come back to them every day. If the spokes are properly tensioned, and stressed, as part of building the wheel then they don't come loose.

It sounds like they did the job right second time round, but they should have got it right first time round. That would make me wary of getting them to build wheels.

I originally thought the same until I was looking at upgrading wheels for a new bike. Just about every set of wheels I've looked at has a notice similar to

NOTE: We recommend checking your wheel for spoke tension after the first couple of rides as this allows for the "bed in" period where the spokes and nipples bed into the rim and hub. If you find the spokes have gone loose or the rim is not straight the wheel should be trued by a professional wheel builder.

doozerie

I've never seen such a notice on wheels before and I would presume that it is there purely for legal reasons rather than to address a commonly occuring issue. Factory built wheels are more prone to issues related to the build than handbuilt ones, but even then that should be a rare occurrence. I've gone through many new wheels over the years, most of them handbuilt and the rest factory built. I've only had spokes loosen on a couple of occasions and both were due to me not having built the wheel properly (I hadn't tensioned the spokes fully and/or hadn't dealt with spoke torsion and/or hadn't stress relieved the spokes once the wheel was built). It's not a mistake that someone being paid to build a wheel by hand should make.

Basically, the spokes themselves can twist when the nipples are being tightened. That torsion should be relieved when the wheel is being built, otherwise it will happen on the road with the result that the spoke(s) will lose tension and the wheel will go out of true. The spokes also need to bed in where they bend and overlap, and again if this is not done once the wheel is built it'll happen on the road with the same effect of loss of tension. The general view is that factory built wheels should be more prone to this as a human has a better feel for torsion in a spoke and can therefore detect it and relieve it during the build, but it really depends on the level of expertise of the human and their commitment to doing a good job. A badly built wheel will go out of true early in its life, a very badly built wheel will effectively disintegrate on the road as a large number or all of the spokes lose tension entirely.

This Sheldon Brown page describes the wheel building process well. It's quite straightforward so any shop that offers a wheelbuilding service should do a good job first time or just stop offering the service until they have developed the skill to do so. Unfortunately, there are many people/shops that just chance their arm when it comes to building or repairing wheels, which is why if you do find a quality wheelbuilder you should stick with them. And being able and willing to acknowledge a poor job of building/repairing a wheel is be a trait that any good wheelbuilder should have - as with most things, people who don't recognise/acknowledge their mistakes tend not to learn from them.

trad

You can read as many books as you want and watch youtube untill you are blue in the face, the ability to wheelbuilding is a gift, you either have it or you don't. I owned and ran my own bike shop which did mostly repairs for 5 years and would I consider myself a wheel builder? No. My mechanic on the other hand had the gift.

So if you need a specialist service in any field of life, find a specialist. They are usually within bike shops that have a racing pedigree. Even within them they may farm out wheelbuilding to the few who truely have the gift, so find a good wheelbuilder and hope he lives a long and happy life.

doozerie

trad wrote: »

You can read as many books as you want and watch youtube untill you are blue in the face, the ability to wheelbuilding is a gift, you either have it or you don't.

I believe that anyone can build a wheel. I have been building my own wheels for 10 years now, with good results, without any formal training (much like a lot of people, I would imagine). It's not something that will appeal to everyone but once you get comfortable with re-truing your existing wheels, building a wheel from scratch seems like the next logical step to me.

However, I do agree that there are varying levels of ability. I believe that anyone who can build a wheel can do a very good job by putting in enough time and patience. A very good wheelbuilder could build something very good in a fraction of that time. A very good wheelbuilder can also produce consistently good results across a variety of hub types, rim types, spoke patterns, etc., whereas I, for example, stick with the same spokes and spoke pattern for all of my wheels. Could everyone reach the level of a very good wheelbuilder? - I don't know, but I think it would take a lot of dedicated time and effort to hone your skill and as with any skill it is probably a minority that are willing to dedicate themselves to it.