watch out for crossroads.

NeilMcEoigheann

Watch out for people in the opposite lane turning right at crossroads.
I got taken out by an old guy at the KCR on monday i was going straight through towards town on greens. prob slowed down to about 20-25kmph before hitting him, shoulder took the impact and i managed to save the bike:) although i went a bit mental at him after, just adreniline or whatever but i decided i needed to go sit down so i went to the curb and i have no idea where the guy went, assuming he just drove off. and the bummer is i now have a quite nice flat spot one my reasonably new tyres,

Lumen

Not sure what recommended practice is.

I think road positioning is key. Unless you take a very prominent road position, it's harder for drivers to see you amongst the stream of cars.

The highest risk is being in a gap behind a stream of cars. The driver will fixate on the cars (them being bigger and more visible) and will be timing the turn precisely to hit you.

When I feel myself in such a situation, I normally either sit out wide on the right (to be more visible and have an exit strategy) or sit off the LH corner of the car in front using it as a shield (obviously need to be sure it isn't going to turn left).

blorg

That sucks and he really should have stuck around... Happened to me recently too, I swerved and narrowly avoided actually being hit.

You really need to keep an eye out and be ready to stop if necessary, disregarding your right of way.

I do find that a VERY bright front light dissuades this sort of behaviour massively. I use a torch and this has the benefit that you can direct it easily. If you shine this directly in the eyes of a driver who looks like they are considering turning across you it really does stop them in their tracks.

Rob_l

Something simliar happened during july to me.
I was just behind a car on the inside in a bike lane on the rathgar road, the car stopped to allow another car take the right hand turn into an estate just as i was coming to pass him, obviously i didn't see the car turning right and wasn't expecting the driver to stop to allow someone in.

The car clipped my back wheel i managed to stay on the bike and all I got was a buckled wheel and a very big shock.

TimAllen

blorg wrote: »

That sucks and he really should have stuck around... Happened to me recently too, I swerved and narrowly avoided actually being hit.

You really need to keep an eye out and be ready to stop if necessary, disregarding your right of way.

I do find that a VERY bright front light dissuades this sort of behaviour massively. I use a torch and this has the benefit that you can direct it easily. If you shine this directly in the eyes of a driver who looks like they are considering turning across you it really does stop them in their tracks.

Your post is very telling. It assumes that drivers do such things deliberately and ignores the fact that such incidents are usually complete accidents.
Your actions, in shining a bright torch in the face of a motorist that you "think" is "considering" turning is reprehensible in the extreme and downright dangerous for the motorist and for you.
At least I will know its you if this happens to me, and you will know its me when you have to retrieve said torch from "where the sun dont shine"

seamus

TimAllen wrote: »

Your post is very telling. It assumes that drivers do such things deliberately and ignores the fact that such incidents are usually complete accidents.

"Accident" implies that they're unavoidable Tim. Most of the time they're either down to poor judgement (thinking they can turn before the cyclist gets there) or a lack of awareness (failing to spot the cyclist). In both cases a motorist could easily end up convicted of dangerous driving after such a collision.
While shining a light directly into a driver's eyes probably isn't the best thing in the world, I find that ensuring my light is directed at wing-mirror/eye level is far more effective at getting you noticed and doesn't cause anyone to scream because they've been blinded.

And it's not Friday. Day off today Tim?

morninwood

TimAllen wrote: »

Your post is very telling. It assumes that drivers do such things deliberately and ignores the fact that such incidents are usually complete accidents.
Your actions, in shining a bright torch in the face of a motorist that you "think" is "considering" turning is reprehensible in the extreme and downright dangerous for the motorist and for you.
At least I will know its you if this happens to me, and you will know its me when you have to retrieve said torch from "where the sun dont shine"

i agree with the basic point you are making that it's very dangerous to shine a torch in a driver's face BUT why the b!tchyness? anger management pal!

oflahero

TimAllen wrote: »

...shining a bright torch in the face of a motorist that you "think" is "considering" turning is reprehensible in the extreme...

When you're cycling along through a junction, it's not difficult to conclude that the car in the opposite right-turn lane, with the right-turn indicators on, with the wheels already pointing across you, and moving at two miles an hour and accelerating, is *actually* considering turning. It's road sense. Ensuring the motorist notices you at this point is the safe option for both you and the driver.

Turning cars generally sit passively while waiting to turn as vehicular traffic goes by, but actually tend to start the turn as the cyclist goes by, which can be unnerving for the cyclist until one gets used to it.

Vélo

morninwood wrote: »

i agree with the basic point you are making that it's very dangerous to shine a torch in a driver's face BUT why the b!tchyness? anger management pal!

morninwood,

I see you're new to Boards. You'll get used to TimAllen after a while.

I will say one thing for him though, he's consistent.

tomasrojo

Wave a hand at them briefly (in whatever way you can that does not look hostile or admonitory) as you approach too. Breaks the motion camouflage.

tomasrojo

TimAllen wrote: »

Your post is very telling. It assumes that drivers do such things deliberately and ignores the fact that such incidents are usually complete accidents.
Your actions, in shining a bright torch in the face of a motorist that you "think" is "considering" turning is reprehensible in the extreme and downright dangerous for the motorist and for you.
At least I will know its you if this happens to me, and you will know its me when you have to retrieve said torch from "where the sun dont shine"

It's got nothing to do with anything you just said. It's to break motion camouflage, I'm sure. (Maybe directly in the eyes isn't so good an idea though.)

morninwood

Vélo wrote: »

morninwood,

I see you're new to Boards. You'll get used to TimAllen after a while.

I will say one thing for him though, he's consistent.

i noticed him around. always giving his two cents and b1tchen around. quite annoying fella. probably one of the people dying from road rage having a heart attack in a car while turning right, mowing down cyclists.

Raam

oflahero wrote: »

Turning cars generally sit passively while waiting to turn as vehicular traffic goes by, but actually tend to start the turn as the cyclist goes by, which can be unnerving for the cyclist until one gets used to it.

Yes that is quite unnerving. When someone does that, there is no way of knowing that they have actually seen you.

Gavin

TimAllen wrote: »

At least I will know its you if this happens to me, and you will know its me when you have to retrieve said torch from "where the sun dont shine"

Post reported for threat.

tomasrojo

Raam wrote: »

Yes that is quite unnerving. When someone does that, there is no way of knowing that they have actually seen you.

I have LEDs on my wrists at night and high-viz cuffs during the day. I quickly pretend to scratch my cheek just before I enter the danger zone. That definitely draws their attention (something very visible moving in an unexpected way). Sometimes I point straight ahead for a more visible motion, and so it's clear that I will be crossing their trajectory.

I try not to have my hands off the brakes for too long, obviously.

Captain Havoc

morninwood wrote: »

i noticed him around. always giving his two cents and b1tchen around. quite annoying fella. probably one of the people dying from road rage having a heart attack in a car while turning right, mowing down cyclists.

It's his comedy value

Anyway, last night had a similar situation. I was coming up to a T-Junction with the turn off to my left. Numbnuts in a car decided not to indicate and I had to brake, followed by a second numbnuts who decided not to indicate. They just drove on as if they'd done nothing wrong, if I had of been on my road bike I would have chased them.

Raam

tomasrojo wrote: »

I have LEDs on my wrists at night and high-viz cuffs during the day. I quickly pretend to scratch my cheek just before I enter the danger zone. That definitely draws their attention (something very visible moving in an unexpected way). Sometimes I point straight ahead for a more visible motion, and so it's clear that I will be crossing their trajectory.

I try not to have my hands off the brakes for too long, obviously.

I know a lad who descends Howth with one hand stuck out in front in order to disuade anyone from pulling out in front of him from a side road

When someone approaches from a side road or similar, I try make a deliberate and obvious head movement, does the trick... usually.

concussion

TimAllen wrote: »

ignores the fact that such incidents are usually complete accidents.

I think you're ignoring the fact that most accidents aren't accidental but a series of mistakes/wrong decisions/ommissions made by one or more people.

blorg

@Tim- often drivers don't notice cyclists. They can be looking straight at you, their eyes see you all right but you just don't mentally register. This is a natural human trait, it's not something specific to motorists. Driving requires a lot of information processing of the environment around you and things can be missed. I don't think any* driver deliberately drives into a cyclist but they can either miss seeing you or just have a mental block and and do it unintentionally.

You use the word "accident"- well accidents can be avoided and I will do whatever is in my power to avoid them. Part of this involves increasing my visibility to motorists and this is why I light myself up like a christmas tree in winter, from the back as much as the front.



If someone looks like they are going to drive into me then shining my light at them gets their attention and makes them conscious of my presence. A quick flash is all it generally takes. Completely non-invasive, it is exactly the same as flashing your lights at someone in a car to warn them of something.

This results in the driver stopping and not driving into me. Win-win situation for both parties I would have thought.

Since getting a strong front light I have found the instances of drivers cutting out in front of me has decreased dramatically. Generally, it just doesn't happen. If a motorist looks like they haven't noticed me, I alert them to my presence. This is a good thing and promotes road safety, I thought I would share it as a tip.

It boggles the mind really, the OP posts a story of a motorist illegally turning right across him (I am sure not intentionally), I post a suggestion as to how a cyclist can make themselves more visible to avoid this sort of accident and you fly off the handle?

I think you have anger issues all right if someone shining a light at you to alert you to their presence and prevent an accident would lead you to physically assault them.

*excepting a tiny minority of Dublin Bus drivers.

Captain Havoc

@blorg I can't believe you gave him an explaination, seriously:

Canis Lupus

Have to say when I approach junctions with cars preparing to turn across me or my view is obstructed by traffic ahead then my head is well up (so I can be seen behind any cars in front) from the normal dipped position and my hands are on the brakes and my speed is properly decreased.

There's alot to be gained from cycling defensively imo.

NeilMcEoigheann

hehe tim....
eh just as an addition i was in the center of the lane with no cars around to obstruct his view, and it was broad daylight, sun and such.
but the lights thing is important.

blorg

Gavin wrote: »

Post reported for threat.

Has anyone else noticed that Tim seems to have quite the anal fixation, I don't think this is the first time he has gleefully imagined sticking objects up there (I think the last one was a U Lock into "Niceholetom" as he put it himself?)

petethedrummer

blorg wrote: »

I think you have anger issues all right if someone shining a light at you to alert you to their presence and prevent an accident would lead you to physically assault them.

Would sticking a torch up someone's backside count as sexual assault too?


Edit: Man I have to post quicker.

Doctor Bob

blorg wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed that Tim seems to have quite the anal fixation, I don't think this is the first time he has gleefully imagined sticking objects up there (I think the last one was a U Lock into "Niceholetom" as he put it himself?)

It's his secret yearning for a bike seat- but like many people who come out, the initial realisation can often be difficult to accept, and you keep resisting, resisting...

Nobody can make someone come out if they don't want to; all we can do is provide a supportive environment when they reach that decision for themselves.

We're here for you, Tim. Take all the time you need.

clairebear83

blorg wrote: »

@Tim- often drivers don't notice cyclists. They can be looking straight at you, their eyes see you all right but you just don't mentally register. This is a natural human trait, it's not something specific to motorists. Driving requires a lot of information processing of the environment around you and things can be missed. I don't think any* driver deliberately drives into a cyclist but they can either miss seeing you or just have a mental block and and do it unintentionally.

*excepting a tiny minority of Dublin Bus drivers.

Tiny minority ?
Having been victim of a bus driving into me from behind & subsequent countless near misses i beg to differ ! I think they are trained to try and plow down as man cyclists as possible - they probably have some sort of league amongst themselves !!

blorg

clairebear83 wrote: »

Tiny minority ?
Having been victim of a bus driving into me from behind & subsequent countless near misses i beg to differ ! I think they are trained to try and plow down as man cyclists as possible - they probably have some sort of league amongst themselves !!

There are a minority of bus drivers who have taken upon themselves to intentionally scare cyclists to "teach them a lesson" for not using dangerous cycle lanes, happens in particular on the N11. There have been threads on it with many people confirming that it has happened to them and that the bus driver did it on purpose. This is INTENTIONAL steering of the vehicle into the cyclist. 99.9% of the time when someone drives into a cyclist they are not doing it intentionally. Often they are negligent but their intention is not to drive into the cyclist.

tomasrojo

clairebear83 wrote: »

Tiny minority ?
Having been victim of a bus driving into me from behind & subsequent countless near misses i beg to differ ! I think they are trained to try and plow down as man cyclists as possible - they probably have some sort of league amongst themselves !!

Some of them are also masters of disguise.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62433024&postcount=131

So you can never feel at ease. That person you thought was your mother? Eggball. That man reading the news? Eggball. You can't trust anyone while he walks among us.

BostonB

I've had a few buses deliberately cut very close to me on lesson street.

With crossroads you have to get out in front in the middle of the road. You know HELLO LOOK AT ME kinda thing.

Staying behind vehicles, or at the cycle lane, you can't be seen by oncoming traffic which turns in immediately after vehicles pass them. Or more accurately they allow time to check if its clear.

I have good lights. But it doesn't help one bit, if someone doesn't look at all.

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

Staying behind vehicles, or at the cycle lane, you can't be seen by oncoming traffic which turns in immediately after vehicles pass them.

You can definitely queue up behind other vehicles. You just have to follow them reasonably closely through the junction.

BostonB

tomasrojo wrote: »

You can definitely queue up behind other vehicles. You just have to follow them reasonably closely through the junction.

But that my point if you are too close, oncoming traffic turns into the gap behind not expecting to see you there. They are looking at the car, in front, and behind, not the cyclist between. You're better off in front, or back a good bit, so you can be seen. That been my experience anyway.

Lumen

BostonB wrote: »

But that my point if you are too close, oncoming traffic turns into the gap behind not expecting to see you there. They are looking at the car, in front, and behind, not the cyclist between. You're better off in front, or back a good bit, so you can be seen. That been my experience anyway.

Right, but if you're back a good bit, and they don't see you, you'll get hit.

Tailgating the car (offset to left or right, obviously) means they don't need to see you, because you'll be through the junction before they've even moved.

BostonB

Thats my experience on the canal where they cut across any gap in the traffic, they are already moving and turning before the car has passed them.

colmoc_123

The point that drivers don't do stupid things deliberately (most of the time) is worth reiterating. I cycle to work 50% of the time and the road rage some cyclists get involved in is crazy. Banging on cars, shouting, etc. Sometimes it has to be done but generally it is really not necessary. It gives cyclists a bad name and assumes that we are all perfect drivers 100% of the time. I know I've had a few Stevie Wonder moments driving to work in the car!

BostonB

The perfect driver doesn't exist.

Gavin

BostonB wrote: »

The perfect driver doesn't exist.

Really?

BostonB

Gavin wrote: »

Really?

O'Really Shirley.

Rob_l

BostonB wrote: »

The perfect driver doesn't exist.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/113146.html

kenmc

morninwood wrote: »

i noticed him around. always giving his two cents and b1tchen around. quite annoying fella. probably one of the people dying from road rage having a heart attack in a car while turning right, mowing down cyclists.

You can add people to an ignore list in your profile settings, it makes for a much less stressful boards experience, until someone else quotes the ignoree

IM0

The amount of idiots on the road (drivers) seems to increasing in proportion to the downturn of the economy, people just aren't thinking out there and are getting angry/careless on the roads, I nearly got t-boned the other day, and have noticed the 'near misses' going way up over the last year or two.