France: Muslim team refuse to play against gay team

TheCandystripes

A Muslim football club, Créteil Bébel (Créteil is the association of praticing Muslims in France) has refused to play against a gay football team next Sunday.
No, not Liverpool,but rather an club called Paris Foot Gay.

A spokesman for Créteil Bébel said
"Désolé mais par rapport au nom de votre équipe, nous ne pouvons jouer contre vous."
("Sorry, but in relation to the name of your team, we can not play against you")

and

"Nos convictions sont de loin plus importantes qu'un simple match de foot."
("Our convictions are, by far, more important then a football match")

Pascal Brethes, president and co-founder of the club said
"C'est insupportable et intolérable"

Both teams are part of the league organised by Commission Football Loisir (CFL). THe CFL is a signatory to the Charter against Homophobia, and so Créteil Bébel risk sanction or even exclusion from the league. In an interview this morning on France Info, a representative of Créteil Bébel said

"En tant que musulman pratiquant, je n'adhère pas à leurs idées"
("As a practicing Muslim I do not adhere to their ideas").

Pascal Brethes response to this was simply to say

"Il faudrait poser la question dans l'autre sens : que se passerait-il si des équipes refusaient de rencontrer une équipe de musulmans pratiquants ?"
("The question must be posed in the other sense : what would happen if other teams refused to meet a team of practicing Muslims ?")

This affair, though of very little importance, has received huge mediatic cover, the type of cover that makes one suspect that somewhere in the corridors of power a bill of law is a brewing. So I wonder what do people make of this. It's not surprising that a team who's common factor is Islam would not want to play (and possibly lose to) a Gay team. If it is part of their religious beliefs then do they have the right to refuse to play without of santion other then the forfeit?
Or was Pascal Brethes correct when he pointed out that this affair would pose fewer questions if it were the other way around?

Sharpshooter

Moved from After Hours.

randylonghorn

TheCandystripes wrote: »

If it is part of their religious beliefs then do they have the right to refuse to play without of santion other then the forfeit?

Catholicism isn't exactly gay-friendly, though certainly not as extremist.

If the St. Jerome School for Catholic Boys refused to play the Dublin Academy for Young Gay Men* at rugby, say, on religious grounds, what would your take on it be?

TheCandystripes wrote: »

Pascal Brethes response to this was simply to say

"Il faudrait poser la question dans l'autre sens : que se passerait-il si des équipes refusaient de rencontrer une équipe de musulmans pratiquants ?"
("The question must be posed in the other sense : what would happen if other teams refused to meet a team of practicing Muslims ?")

I think that says it all tbh. Tolerance for difference means tolerance for race, religion, sexuality ... they all go hand in hand and to undermine one is to undermine the other.

Additionally, if CFL are a signatory to the Charter against Homophobia, and Créteil Bébel signed up to play in that league, then by doing so they made a commitment to abide by it as well.


*Fictitious schools to pose a question.

Tim Robbins

randylonghorn wrote: »

Catholicism isn't exactly gay-friendly, though certainly not as extremist.

If the St. Jerome School for Catholic Boys refused to play the Dublin Academy for Young Gay Men* at rugby, say, on religious grounds, what would your take on it be?

I think that says it all tbh. Tolerance for difference means tolerance for race, religion, sexuality ... they all go hand in hand and to undermine one is to undermine the other.

Additionally, if CFL are a signatory to the Charter against Homophobia, and Créteil Bébel signed up to play in that league, then by doing so they made a commitment to abide by it as well.


*Fictitious schools to pose a question.

There's a gay rugby team called the emerald warriors. They play in the Leinster J4 league and I haven't heard any cases of abuse or homophobia.

I'm not sure what way the showers work out, but I doubt anyone gives a
cr8p.

Dades

Maybe they're just afraid of getting beaten. :pac:

Leave the Muslim team in the league (and the Dark Ages), award the game to their opponents, and that's 3 points in the manbag.

WeeBushy

It's obvious to any reasonable person here that its wrong for Créteil Bébel not play on the grounds that Paris Foot Gay are a gay team. But from their point of view Paris Foot Gay represent something that is fundamentally wrong, so while I deeply disagree with them I can see their point of view. It's akin to, say, my local team refusing to play a team of paedophiles on the grounds that what they represent is evil.

They should be subjected to the rules of forfeiting a match (presumably Paris Foot Gay would be awarded full points) as they entered the league knowing the rules and who they might play.

The Emerald Warriors are in our j4 group and I can't wait to play them. I think what they are doing and representing is fantastic in what has been traditionally a macho and homophobic sport.

nellumr

Filan wrote: »

A few months ago a Muslim colleague criticised the inclusion of ham in my sandwich........because Allah forbade it.........Islam prevents social evolution

Why so insensitive? Can't you accept the fact hat God created the universe and everyhting in it; every supernova, the nubulae, black hholes and binary systems; planet earth with it's glorious waterfalls, savannahs, mountain ranges, nice boobies, coral reefs and the glorious beaches. The planet and every living thing on it is a testament to his glory and power. Apart from pigs obvioulsy, he was hungover that day.

Crumble Froo

it's just a football match though. so if they were playing an average/straight team, which happened to have one gay person on it, would they still have refused?

or a team that eat pig, or if the whole team is straight, but co-habiting and fornicating with women?

fair enough, if they really believe they cannot play on the same field as a person/group of people who don't share their beliefs, but i can't help but feel that they're just picking up on the gay thing where they wouldnt pick up on the rest of the things that non-muslims will tend to do that muslims deem wrong.

jady88

It seems rather strange that since they follow their religion so closely and take their holy books as literal truth and the very words of their god they failed to notice that there was no rule against playing against gays... and what about fornicators or those who have extra-marital affairs?

uberwolf

Crumble Froo wrote: »

it's just a football match though. so if they were playing an average/straight team, which happened to have one gay person on it, would they still have refused?

or a team that eat pig, or if the whole team is straight, but co-habiting and fornicating with women?

The teams identity is their sexuality, so pig eaters FC would probably merit the same attention, and Sodom and Gomorrah FC would. But if their sexuality and swine consumption was entirely incidental to their collective team, then the muslim team prob wouldn't react the same way.

Still and all, it's a 3-0 forfeit.

nozzferrahhtoo

uberwolf wrote: »

Still and all, it's a 3-0 forfeit.

WeeBushy wrote: »

They should be subjected to the rules of forfeiting a match (presumably Paris Foot Gay would be awarded full points) as they entered the league knowing the rules and who they might play.

I would have agreed with you when I first read the story that this is a forfeit situation and no more. However I think now it's a league expulsion situation. Let me explain why:

The forfeit is for a one off event. It is a fair rule and required for unforeseen events that occur after the season has started, such as a club being unable to field a full team on a day required etc etc.

However this team has made it clear they will NEVER play the other team. This goes beyond the forfeit rule and essentially if you leave both teams in the league then the "gay" team basically starts every season with a 6 point advantage, knowing they will get the 3 points every time.

A league simply can not work like that and it is entirely unfair on the other teams in the league who are innocent in this affair and now have a 2 match handicap to the "gay" team each season.

Going the other way and making a decision like "Give no one the points for these 2 games each season" would indeed punish the "muslim" team, but now the "gay" team is given a 2 match handicap punishing them for being entirely innocent in the affair.

It is therefore simply unworkable, and unsporting, and the muslim team deserve the expulsion from the league that has been suggested and.... correct me if I am wrong as I stopped following the story.... actually has been implemented.

WeeBushy

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I would have agreed with you when I first read the story that this is a forfeit situation and no more. However I think now it's a league expulsion situation. Let me explain why:

The forfeit is for a one off event. It is a fair rule and required for unforeseen events that occur after the season has started, such as a club being unable to field a full team on a day required etc etc.

However this team has made it clear they will NEVER play the other team. This goes beyond the forfeit rule and essentially if you leave both teams in the league then the "gay" team basically starts every season with a 6 point advantage, knowing they will get the 3 points every time.

A league simply can not work like that and it is entirely unfair on the other teams in the league who are innocent in this affair and now have a 2 match handicap to the "gay" team each season.

Going the other way and making a decision like "Give no one the points for these 2 games each season" would indeed punish the "muslim" team, but now the "gay" team is given a 2 match handicap punishing them for being entirely innocent in the affair.

It is therefore simply unworkable, and unsporting, and the muslim team deserve the expulsion from the league that has been suggested and.... correct me if I am wrong as I stopped following the story.... actually has been implemented.

That's very true actually, I'd have to agree with you. It would be an unfair advantage to Paris Foot Gay considering they get a guaranteed 6 points. Along with what you said, Créteil Bébel went into the league knowing full well that they were going to forfeit the match.

Good post.