Question on temporary Lecturers

Dboy85

Anyone have any experience in getting a temporary lecturer to say full time? The lecturer in question is good at what they do in a tough subject and is interested in staying to ,at least, see out the remainder of the year.
Rather than getting a lecturer of a different teaching style is there a solid chance of getting the temp to stay? Im not trying to thread on anyones toes but i see it unfair to chop and change lecturers mid year. Im sure the perminant lecturer is capable but I/we would prefer to keep the current temp for the rest of the year.
The rest of the class is in support also but does any of that matter?!!

Any thoughts?

niall3r

To be honest, what the students would prefer will probably not come into consideration. If you have a temporary lecturer, then that is probably because the original lecturer is on sabbatical (code word for publishing) or they are old/or there was another issue requiring.

The department, sanctioned by the academic council, wont allow a temporary lectuerer to stay to teach when the regular lecturer is scheduled back at the best of times never mind pay double wages during the current economic climate.

Realistically I dont think you have a chance. But if you want to give it a lash: Get your class rep to approach the department. A petition signed by the entire class wouldnt hurt.

You mind if I ask what course this is where? just for nosiness sake:)

Tom Dunne

Dboy85 wrote: »

The rest of the class is in support also but does any of that matter?!!

I have been that lecturer. I generally get on well with my students, I like to think I am approachable, have a good sense of humour and (generally speaking ) know what I am talking about.

In short, it doesn't really matter what students think, the decision is usually a combination of politics, finance, student numbers and egos.

No harm in trying, though.

Dboy85

niall3r wrote: »

You mind if I ask what course this is where? just for nosiness sake:)

i'd rather not say to be honest.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

IIn short, it doesn't really matter what students think, the decision is usually a combination of politics, finance, student numbers and egos.

No harm in trying, though.

What a load of bollox! At the end of the day we're the one paying for the education. I'd like to think we'd have some say in how we're treated...did anyone fight to keep you?

rainbowtrout

Dboy85 wrote: »

i'd rather not say to be honest.



What a load of bollox! At the end of the day we're the one paying for the education. I'd like to think we'd have some say in how we're treated...did anyone fight to keep you?

To the best of my knowledge third level is still free:p

But no, seriously, you will have no say, that's akin to saying let the students do the hiring of lecturers. What is the permanent lecturer supposed to do in the meantime? Sit in his office twiddling his thumbs and updating his facebook profile? No college is going to pay 2 people to do 1 job.

Imagine what it would be like if students were picking and choosing their lecturers... 'We don't like X lecturer, let's get rid of him/her' The system would be open to all sorts of abuse

Tom Dunne

Dboy85 wrote: »

I'd like to think we'd have some say in how we're treated...did anyone fight to keep you?

Oh dear, such naivety . Not a hope.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Imagine what it would be like if students were picking and choosing their lecturers... 'We don't like X lecturer, let's get rid of him/her' The system would be open to all sorts of abuse

The system would also be a hell of a lot more efficient.

What used to frustrate me (apart from the fact that I couldn't get a permanent job), is the amount of complete and utter wasters who managed to land lecturing positions during the boom times, and can now not be fired. One particular guy I worked with had a degree in biology, was a complete stoner and utterly incompetent at his job. He is still there to this day, wasting taxpayers money, giving students a sub-standard education.

Yes, there isn't a hope in hell of students having a say, we don't really want to get to the situation where it becomes essentially a popularity contest. However, if some of these wasters had the threat of being fired hanging over them, we might just get a more efficient third-level education system.

/rant

Gibbs

Dboy85 wrote: »

What a load of bollox! At the end of the day we're the one paying for the education. I'd like to think we'd have some say in how we're treated...did anyone fight to keep you?

LOL - the naivety :-)

Dboy85

Gibbs wrote: »

LOL - the naivety :-)

If everyone had your attitude nobody would have rights! I'm not naive nor am I a coward. People like you stand in corners cursing people instead of trying to make changes. If you want to take guff your entire life go ahead but don't point your frustration at me sheep.

I'd appreciate some constructive advise if anyone here has any

avalon68

Dboy85 wrote: »

People like you stand in corners cursing people instead of trying to make changes.

Unfortunately in academic circles if you look like you are about to rock the boat and attempt to change the system, you would quickly find yourself unemployable in such a small country

To the OPs original question, you have little grounds to do anything....this lecturer is on a temporary contract, and like someone already stated they wont pay two people to do one job.

Gibbs

Dboy85 wrote: »

If everyone had your attitude nobody would have rights! I'm not naive nor am I a coward. People like you stand in corners cursing people instead of trying to make changes. If you want to take guff your entire life go ahead but don't point your frustration at me sheep.

I'd appreciate some constructive advise if anyone here has any

Hi. I'll explain what I mean from two perspectives - the first systematic, the second realistic.

Imagine you were sick, and a man in a white coat came up to you and said, oh here this will make you better. You took it, and you get better. So the guy is a great doctor - right? You recommend him to all your friends as he cured you (this is unfortunately the basis of homeopathy). But the truth is that as an end-user, you have no idea of this guys qualifications. That is why you put your trust in the hospital to check him out when they employ him, qualifications, references, ability to do job etc. So why is it any different for academics? I think it's strange that students think they know best about lecturers. The actual job of lecturing - delivering content to a class is quite easy to do at a basic level - see another post here about a lecturer copying notes from the web. But when you take in course design, exam setting, supervising research, that's where the expertise comes in. But as a student, you don't get to see this. Therefore while you might think your guy is brilliant, and he probably is, the point is that there is a system in place that has given someone else a permanent contract. The job is his/hers. The temp guy has all the rights in the world (and indeed more right in the IT sector) to apply for a more permanent position when it comes up, and your student evaluation forms will certainly help him on his way.

Realistically, there are crap lecturers out there. We've all had them, maybe I am one. But thanks to a very strong union in the IT sector, it is virtually impossible to do anything with them. So the lefty-like statements in another post about a "club" would actually be better directed at union's vice-grip on disciplinary procedures. This isn't going to happen. Again, your noise would be better placed there, although the fact that your argument is based on "different teaching styles", not even that the permanent guy is crap is, I am afraid to say - naive.

Lecturing is often seen as a cushy job - in my experience it is far from it, with 50+ hours a week, and years on temporary, pro-rata contracts before the permanency comes, if at all. Your guy, who is no doubt very good, is just somewhere on the journey. If he has enough patience, and a forgiving supporting partner, he will get there eventually.

PS - the vast majority of students do not in fact pay for their education. Baaaah ;-)

Dboy85

Gibbs wrote: »

I think it's strange that students think they know best about lecturers.

The actual job of lecturing - delivering content to a class is quite easy to do at a basic level

PS - the vast majority of students do not in fact pay for their education. Baaaah ;-)

Let me tell you where exactly I'm coming from here! On your 1st point about students thinking they know best about lecturers. The course in question is an intense programming course where lecturers with clarity are needed. While I have no doubt that the permanent lecturers know their stuff well; a few of them are lacking. Maybe its years of trying to drum lectures into unresponsive students that broke their passion for teaching i don't know. But they don't alter their style to the student or even try to reword anything. The lecturer with the most passion is the "temp". From my side of the fence thats a good lecturer. One that will adapt to students and come from different angles to get them to where they need to be. Not hold their hand but to give them the best chance to understand.
My argument is based on; if the permanent lecturer comes back and has the same flair of the rest, or lack of, most of the class is lost. Why risk this mid year when everyone is making Trojan progress with the lecturer we have.
On your second point that teaching is easy...yes it is easy to pour out some dribble and expect people to learn it but then thats not teaching is it?! I'm able to spot people that know what their talking about and this guy does because he can give me answers on the spot that "Permanent" lecturers cant because they simply don't know by their own admission.

And about fees! My credit union says other wise:p

Maybe we will lose but we'll give the temp the support he deserves for the effort and time hes put in to us

Gibbs

Ok! I don't think you've taken on board my points, but I wish you well in your quest. The situation for temporary staff this year is unfortunately very uncertain.

MonkeyBalls

Dboy85 wrote: »

Let me tell you where exactly I'm coming from here! On your 1st point about students thinking they know best about lecturers. The course in question is an intense programming course where lecturers with clarity are needed. While I have no doubt that the permanent lecturers know their stuff well; a few of them are lacking. Maybe its years of trying to drum lectures into unresponsive students that broke their passion for teaching i don't know. But they don't alter their style to the student or even try to reword anything. The lecturer with the most passion is the "temp". From my side of the fence thats a good lecturer. One that will adapt to students and come from different angles to get them to where they need to be. Not hold their hand but to give them the best chance to understand.
My argument is based on; if the permanent lecturer comes back and has the same flair of the rest, or lack of, most of the class is lost. Why risk this mid year when everyone is making Trojan progress with the lecturer we have.
On your second point that teaching is easy...yes it is easy to pour out some dribble and expect people to learn it but then thats not teaching is it?! I'm able to spot people that know what their talking about and this guy does because he can give me answers on the spot that "Permanent" lecturers cant because they simply don't know by their own admission.

And about fees! My credit union says other wise:p

Maybe we will lose but we'll give the temp the support he deserves for the effort and time hes put in to us

Hmm, poor comprehension skillz methinks

smcgiff

Gibbs wrote: »

PS - the vast majority of students do not in fact pay for their education. Baaaah ;-)

Yeah know that "Registration Fee" wink wink nudge nudge.

Okay, it doesn't pay for everything, but it's far from free.

Dboy85

[SNIP]

Toto Wolfcastle

Dboy85 banned for a week for personal abuse.