Next step in training

premiercad

Training my 5 month setter at the moment and I think it's about time I got him returning on a whistle. Just wondering whats the best type/make/pitch of whistle. Are the silent (to humans) whistles a good buy? Comes to me on my own lips whistle well but I cant whistle that loud for the bigger distances! lots of people have dogs in my area too and he sometimes looks around hearing other whistling thinking maybe he's over there! Also pup is showing a good interest in hunting and in chasing birds (D'ont all young lads! ) Even came across an injured pheasant yesterday who had been hit by a car and went straight in for the kill before I could say anything. I let him investigate and smell him for a good while and gave him loads of praise. Is there anything else I should be doing at this stage or just encourage him to keep sniffing about and stalking birds. Should I encourage a set more now or let him plough on to keep the interset up?

stevoman

premiercad wrote: »

Training my 5 month setter at the moment and I think it's about time I got him returning on a whistle. Just wondering whats the best type/make/pitch of whistle. Are the silent (to humans) whistles a good buy? Comes to me on my own lips whistle well but I cant whistle that loud for the bigger distances! lots of people have dogs in my area too and he sometimes looks around hearing other whistling thinking maybe he's over there! Also pup is showing a good interest in hunting and in chasing birds (D'ont all young lads! ) Even came across an injured pheasant yesterday who had been hit by a car and went straight in for the kill before I could say anything. I let him investigate and smell him for a good while and gave him loads of praise. Is there anything else I should be doing at this stage or just encourage him to keep sniffing about and stalking birds. Should I encourage a set more now or let him plough on to keep the interset up?

firstly i d let him and and dont fret because he will set in time. i put mysellf through a year and a half of hell before my setter began to set steady and its only coming into shape for me and she 2 and a half and i mean only. i dont expect a good setter until 4 years.

i use the acme 210 whistle and find it very good and it seems to be the best all rounder. i generally use 2 peeps to return and one peep to stay. i dont bother using long beeps to change the cast of the dog etc i'l leave that up to the experts and the field triallers. if its a rough shooting dog you want that should be enough.

mallards

I use an acme 2/11 1/2. Whatever you get make sure it's cheap and easily replaced. I've lost more whistles in my time. :rolleyes:

endasmail

im in the exact same place myself
im trying to train a 5 month german pointer
i use the 210 and half whistle for him
my problem is actually getiing him to stay within distance of me
he flushed a pheasant 200 yards down the field today ,thats no good to me for future
will try out the long lead trick on him

irish setter

whatever whistle you use to recall him just pick one and stick to it. it's a good idea to use several short pips of your whistle to recall him cause you can keep it up till he responds. first make sure he comes back by voice and don't be afraid to use treats. when he has that off introduce the whistle by calling him in by voice followed by whistle and treat him. after a while you can drop the voice command. it's just practice and practice after that. keep bringing him to different places and let him explore is the only thing you can do and he will start setting when he is good and ready, cause that part you can't train.

irish setter

also you might want to think about getting some direction in your pup, not getting him to quarter but be able to send him in a different direction when hunting. when you have the pup out on a run and he is running say to your left throw out your left arm and walk in that direction, he turns you do also raising your right arm. let him dictate the direction and you just follow and raise whatever arm needed. keep this up and after sometime your dog is hunting out to one side and you want him out the other side all you do is give one pip of your whistle to grab his attention raise your arm and he will follow

premiercad

Good advice there lads thanks.

Training is going really well at the moment and I'm very happy with how the dogs is behaving. Comes straight away to my call and stays in one spot rigid until given the release call. The next step for me is the whistle and then the stay at distance where I'd like to stop him on command when he is out from me. I'm limiting the commands to stay, come and go on which seems to be working. The rest is just go smell and explore.

I haven't had endasmail's problem yet as my lad tended to stay close in at first and only now is he getting braver. (day by day!) I suppose Endasmail the fact that he's a pointer will help you later when he does lock at distance you can just close the ground for the shot.

stevoman

I was out myself this morning. I was a little bit dissapointed in my dog. She set for a second by some heavy heavy cover and then she burst into it and chased up a cock and rose it way into the cover. she looked like she couldnt control hereslf. she was good and steady up until this weekend and then she just seemed to change.

at the weekend she seen a few pheasents and chased them as soon as she laid eyes on them.

cant help but wonder what has brought this on.

EPointer=Birdss

Prey Drive stevo....
Very hard to get a dog to set on sight once they've got a few birds.
Long lead time again to prevent the chase.
I think the stay at distance or the command to stop in motion as mentioned above would help you here also...
Working on both with that problem setter I have at the moment...

stevoman

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Prey Drive stevo....
Very hard to get a dog to set on sight once they've got a few birds.
Long lead time again to prevent the chase.
I think the stay at distance or the command to stop in motion as mentioned above would help you here also...
Working on both with that problem setter I have at the moment...

she always stay steady for me when i see tell her but she just couldnt resisit this morning. or yesterday morning for that fact!!

talking to a man this morning and he told me has two racing pigeons for me and to pick them up friday. he reckons if i wrap the wings and put them in a tuft of grass and walk the dog up on them with a lead a few times she'l become steady to sight. might be worth a try. he says just set the birds free when im done and they'l tip on back to him.

endasmail

premiercad wrote: »

Good advice there lads thanks.

Training is going really well at the moment and I'm very happy with how the dogs is behaving. Comes straight away to my call and stays in one spot rigid until given the release call. The next step for me is the whistle and then the stay at distance where I'd like to stop him on command when he is out from me. I'm limiting the commands to stay, come and go on which seems to be working. The rest is just go smell and explore.

I haven't had endasmail's problem yet as my lad tended to stay close in at first and only now is he getting braver. (day by day!) I suppose Endasmail the fact that he's a pointer will help you later when he does lock at distance you can just close the ground for the shot.

hopefully he be alright
what age dog ya training?

irish setter

stevoman wrote: »

she always stay steady for me when i see tell her but she just couldnt resisit this morning. or yesterday morning for that fact!!

talking to a man this morning and he told me has two racing pigeons for me and to pick them up friday. he reckons if i wrap the wings and put them in a tuft of grass and walk the dog up on them with a lead a few times she'l become steady to sight. might be worth a try. he says just set the birds free when im done and they'l tip on back to him.

cant help thinking your going backwards with the pigeons stevo. i'd never use them for any training if you have access to wild birds. if you want your dog perfect or as near to as is possible go back to the training field and practice the drop. then when he see's birds drop him. if he don't drop he hasn't learn't the drop properly. the last thing you want is a dog thats sets to sight, can have all sorts of problems. training a setter is sometimes one step forward and two steps back. your dog will make mistakes but if he don't how else will he learn. give it time and reward him when he gets it right by dropping the occasional bird ,when in season of course and he will pick it up. even the best trained most experienced dogs make mistakes, thats how they keep getting better. if i were you i wouldn't overthink this and i'd forget pigeons

stevoman

irish setter wrote: »

cant help thinking your going backwards with the pigeons stevo. i'd never use them for any training if you have access to wild birds. if you want your dog perfect or as near to as is possible go back to the training field and practice the drop. then when he see's birds drop him. if he don't drop he hasn't learn't the drop properly. the last thing you want is a dog thats sets to sight, can have all sorts of problems. training a setter is sometimes one step forward and two steps back. your dog will make mistakes but if he don't how else will he learn. give it time and reward him when he gets it right by dropping the occasional bird ,when in season of course and he will pick it up. even the best trained most experienced dogs make mistakes, thats how they keep getting better. if i were you i wouldn't overthink this and i'd forget pigeons

i'l take your advice so. i was out myself this mroning so i was. dropped the dog at the gate of a field before we both entered it. i was walking up to her and she broke when she spotted a hen just by the ditch and put it up and ran about with excitment.

ah well, i think i may be thinking too much into it. she still only about to turn 2 and a half and i have to keep reminding myself she wont be settled for another year no matter what i think. i tell you exactly what she needs. birds dropped opver her!!! thats more than likely the problem so it is. wont be too long more to wait.

EPointer=Birdss

Make sure to only drop birds she works right though. So tempting not to!
I use an E collar (much to others dismay) but my dog is as stubborn as they come. I use the beep function if I see him creeping or if he flushes etc & it stops him in his tracks. I am transitioning him to a sharp blow of the whistle now with the aim of not needing the collar! I will never take it off of him though for safety reasons.
In my eyes it is a rope that can be used at distance.
When he needs the basics he goes on the rope.

When you do drop a few don't be expecting her to calm just yet, she might go the other way! Once she makes the connection that when you give the command to flush, the bird falls (in theory:D) & when you don't it dissapears over the ditch!
Once this gets engrained you will notice them watching you more as well for direction. I 'd say just run her on the rope for awhile & when she breaks or chases nip it in the bud & when she doesn't be all about her.

All part of the ups & downs of training & why when the dog is finished you will be more satisfied!

stevoman

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Make sure to only drop birds she works right though. So tempting not to!
I use an E collar (much to others dismay) but my dog is as stubborn as they come. I use the beep function if I see him creeping or if he flushes etc & it stops him in his tracks. I am transitioning him to a sharp blow of the whistle now with the aim of not needing the collar! I will never take it off of him though for safety reasons.
In my eyes it is a rope that can be used at distance.
When he needs the basics he goes on the rope.

When you do drop a few don't be expecting her to calm just yet, she might go the other way! Once she makes the connection that when you give the command to flush, the bird falls (in theory:D) & when you don't it dissapears over the ditch!
Once this gets engrained you will notice them watching you more as well for direction. I 'd say just run her on the rope for awhile & when she breaks or chases nip it in the bud & when she doesn't be all about her.

All part of the ups & downs of training & why when the dog is finished you will be more satisfied!

i had the collar on her myself yesterday just for a few minutes, just to remind her that the whistle is to be listened to when its peeped. i ran her on it all last year and to be honest i wouldnt trust myself with it. im too liberal!!!

you see i just dont know if shes too cute for her own good. she's wont move on a snipe. i think she's aware that pheasents will move and that has freed her up a little. plus it was pouring this morning with no wind so scent was out the window.

i never had her on the rope so i dont know if its steeping her way back now, maybe i should have put her on the rope from the start and saved myself the bother.

im only annoying myself now at this stage methinks. i have a dog thats mad for hunting and has tonnes of go in her. I cant really be complaining.

irish setter

i dont use the e collar for any training but id beware using one on a dog working birds as you could cause stickiness or worse blinking. if you feel you have to use try it on the lowest setting around the dogs waist with the points on his belly. less likely to cause these problems as it has more of a feel of going through cover than actually being punished on game which is a dangerous thing. to be honest when a dog is let onto birds all the ground work should be done and the dog learns with experience and if the wheels come off you have total control over him. i totally ruined the first setter i tried to train by overthinking things and pigeons and all the gadgets. now at a push i might consider a long rope in early training