Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Planning Permission Drawings - V - Construction/Building Regulation Drawings

Options
  • 18-10-2009 9:56pm
    #1
    LecturerA1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭


    Can anybody help out there. Just had a neighbour who got planning permission following a Bord Pleanala appeal for a two storey extension in a low-pitch bungalow estate with a window looking into back garden/kitchen window! Have just checked the planning drawings and have noticed that some of the heights of the windows (which are shown as fire escape windows) are only 300mm off the proposed first floor level. The applicant did not show any heights on the drawings, however, I am very concerned because if this guy does construct two windows in the elevation I think he will have to increase the pitch/height to be in compliance with Building Regs. This will basically mean that the planning drawings and constructed project could be different. What is the best course of action for us at this stage to ensure that he does not increase the height of these windows?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,113 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    LecturerA1 wrote: »
    Can anybody help out there. Just had a neighbour who got planning permission following a Bord Pleanala appeal for a two storey extension in a low-pitch bungalow estate with a window looking into back garden/kitchen window! Have just checked the planning drawings and have noticed that some of the heights of the windows (which are shown as fire escape windows) are only 300mm off the proposed first floor level. The applicant did not show any heights on the drawings, however, I am very concerned because if this guy does construct two windows in the elevation I think he will have to increase the pitch/height to be in compliance with Building Regs. This will basically mean that the planning drawings and constructed project could be different. What is the best course of action for us at this stage to ensure that he does not increase the height of these windows?
    Why would increasing the height of the window sill require the roof height to increase?
    How did you come to the conclusion that the wondows were 300mm off the floor level.
    Basically, he has to build it as per planning, and if he can build it that ay then there is little or nothing you can do.


  • Options
    #3
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,118 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    LecturerA1 wrote: »
    Can anybody help out there. Just had a neighbour who got planning permission following a Bord Pleanala appeal for a two storey extension in a low-pitch bungalow estate with a window looking into back garden/kitchen window! Have just checked the planning drawings and have noticed that some of the heights of the windows (which are shown as fire escape windows) are only 300mm off the proposed first floor level. The applicant did not show any heights on the drawings, however, I am very concerned because if this guy does construct two windows in the elevation I think he will have to increase the pitch/height to be in compliance with Building Regs. This will basically mean that the planning drawings and constructed project could be different. What is the best course of action for us at this stage to ensure that he does not increase the height of these windows?

    The glazing section of a window CAN be within 300mm of a first floor. Its only the openable section that needs to be within 800 and 1100 above the floor level. therefore the glazed section between say 800 and 300 must be fixed and also guarded in accordance with TGD part K.

    There is no legal requirement for a planning design to comply with building regulations. There is a legal requirement to build in accordance with building regulations.


  • Options
    #4
    onq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭onq


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    The glazing section of a window CAN be within 300mm of a first floor. Its only the openable section that needs to be within 800 and 1100 above the floor level. therefore the glazed section between say 800 and 300 must be fixed and also guarded in accordance with TGD part K.

    There is no legal requirement for a planning design to comply with building regulations. There is a legal requirement to build in accordance with building regulations.


    A small qualification.

    The building must be built in accordance with the planning permission and must comply with the building regulations. These two separate strands of law meet in the built work.

    FWIW

    ONQ.


  • Options
    #5
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,113 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    onq wrote: »
    A small qualification.

    The building must be built in accordance with the planning permission and must comply with the building regulations. These two separate strands of law meet in the built work.

    FWIW

    ONQ.
    True, but in accordance with planning doesn't mean identical to planning.
    As, if a situation arose where the planning was in breach of Building regs, a small ammendment in order to comply with building regs would prevent it from being built in accordance with planning. Especially given the statement of opinion involved.


  • Options
    #6
    ryano77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭ryano77


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    The glazing section of a window CAN be within 300mm of a first floor. Its only the openable section that needs to be within 800 and 1100 above the floor level. therefore the glazed section between say 800 and 300 must be fixed and also guarded in accordance with TGD part K.

    There is no legal requirement for a planning design to comply with building regulations. There is a legal requirement to build in accordance with building regulations.

    im curious as to how the guarding of the lower level glazing (between 300 and 800) is implemented. Is it a case of using toughened glass or are you supposed to put some sort of railing in place? I don't think i've ever seen any railing or barrier in domestic situations such as sunrooms.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,118 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ryano77 wrote: »
    im curious as to how the guarding of the lower level glazing (between 300 and 800) is implemented. Is it a case of using toughened glass or are you supposed to put some sort of railing in place? I don't think i've ever seen any railing or barrier in domestic situations such as sunrooms.

    the standard method of compliance here is the use of toughened glazing.

    see paragraph 2.3 here


  • Options
    #8
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,865 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Also it's only on windows on first floor level (more than 1400 between sill and external ground*) so that generally rules out sun rooms too.


    *open to correction


  • Options
    #9
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Guarding may not be essential where the total difference in levels is 600 mm or less.

    From para 2.2 of Syd's link


  • Options
    #10
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,865 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Just for reference SB is that figure a reference between FFL and GL or Sill level and GL?


  • Options
    #11
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    FFL + GL


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    ryano77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭ryano77


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    Guarding may not be essential where the total difference in levels is 600 mm or less.

    From para 2.2 of Syd's link

    so let me get this straight.

    according to paragraph 2.4:

    Guarding should be provided for any
    window, the sill of which is more than 1400 mm
    above external ground level and is less than 800 mm
    in height above internal floor level

    does this only apply to upper floors if the difference between ground floor ffl and external ground level is less than 600mm?


  • Options
    #13
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,113 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    ryano77 wrote: »

    does this only apply to upper floors if the difference between ground floor ffl and external ground level is less than 600mm?

    This about is logiacally, why would the level difference at GL have any impact when falling from first floor, you're gettign a bit mixed up. It's pretty straight forward.

    Just ignore the 1400 (its 600+800 and creates a bit of a error, see below)




    ~~~~~~~~~~Building Reg Rant~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Guarding
    Opening 800m or more above internal floor level - guarding not required
    Opening 800m or more below internal floor level - guarding required, except where different in levels is 600mm or less



    Ignore the 1400 - Stick with 600 and 800
    The TGDs are guidance, not regs so there are exceptions, regarding the TGDs an exception is where you DO MORE not less.

    The TGDs list this where you have to comply. They don't list where to never have to comply, they normally say may not be required.

    Say a window with a internal level difference of 1200 has a 200 high sill, so opening is within 1400, so TGD 2.4 alone doesn't says it is required (they don't say is isn't either). But clearly this is a worse drop than say a 610 level difference and a 795 high sill.
    It's a narrow condition when level difference is between 600 and 1400 and ope is inversely between 800 and 0.
    Using 1400 alone, that 800mm range is not covered, using 600 and 800 together it is.


Advertisement