Mains fed electric shower with low pressure

Faerieality

I recently installed an electric shower which is connected directly to the mains. It seems that our water pressure is quite low so the shower will only work on the lower settings, giving a low to moderate flow of hot water. Is there anything I can do to improve it short of taking it out and installing a tank in the attic and a new shower.

Joey the lips

Faerieality wrote: »

I recently installed an electric shower which is connected directly to the mains. It seems that our water pressure is quite low so the shower will only work on the lower settings, giving a low to moderate flow of hot water. Is there anything I can do to improve it short of taking it out and installing a tank in the attic and a new shower.

No there is not a lot you can do that wont cost you. I am guessing its a T80 of an argos special. Mains pressure showers are not to successful in ireland even though there is not many alternatives when you get attic conversions.

What will have to be done is you will need to buy a single impeller 1 bar pump or a triton t450I pump. legislation as far as i know pervents you connecting this straight to the mains so what you do is tap into the attic tank and run a connection down to the bathroom. The sad thing is a pump will cost about 200 euro, a pumped electric shower will only cost 280 but it will need more electrical work.

IF you need more just ask.

Faerieality

Cheers Joey. The shower is a Mira Elevate. The only problem is there is no attic tank! My water supply is entirely from the mains. A true conundrum.

Joey the lips

Faerieality wrote: »

Cheers Joey. The only problem is there is no attic tank! My water supply is entirely from the mains. A true conundrum.

Ahh, You will have to connect straight to the mains with the pump. Just limit the amount of applience use while your having a shower.

mad m

Those mains fed showers need atleast 1bar pressure. How is the mains pressure?

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

legislation as far as i know pervents you connecting this straight to the mains .

Joey the lips wrote: »

Ahh, You will have to connect straight to the mains with the pump. Just limit the amount of applience use while your having a shower..

All due respect Joey;), but you can't pump the mains, you cannot take out whats not there, it's not just the regs that should stop a pump being installed but good working practice/common sense, OP if you pump the mains your neighbors may start querying where their water disappears to every time you have a shower. You could look at http://www.pumpexpress.co.uk/acatalog/All_in_one_Pump_and_Tank_solutions.html or http://www.gah.co.uk/heating/coldstream/introducing-coldstream.php other wise it square peg round hole time and you will have to find a shower suited to your situation ie.. stored water, Gary.

Joey the lips

gary71 wrote: »

All due respect Joey;), but you can't pump the mains, you cannot take out whats not there, it's not just the regs that should stop a pump being installed but good working practice/common sense, OP if you pump the mains your neighbors may start querying where their water disappears to every time you have a shower. You could look at http://www.pumpexpress.co.uk/acatalog/All_in_one_Pump_and_Tank_solutions.html or http://www.gah.co.uk/heating/coldstream/introducing-coldstream.php other wise it square peg round hole time and you will have to find a shower suited to your situation ie.. stored water, Gary.

I know you cant I actually thought i said that but if he has no tank and bad mains pressure he will have to try something. Idealy i would interrupt the mains line coming in and branch of to a tank then pump it from the tank but this does not seem to be an option.

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

Ahh, You will have to connect straight to the mains with the pump. Just limit the amount of applience use while your having a shower.

Joey, forgive me for being a big girls blouse, you did state that the regs didn't support fitting of a pump on the mains, but you're above post suggests that fitting a pump is a viable option when it's not, you can't pump what isn't there, i see a lot of pumps fitted to mains in Dublin, and it does my nut in that it's seen as normal practice when it's just sloppy work(i have seen heating water being sucked out due to a pump being fitted), if planned for there are answers to problems with low water pressure and fitting pumps to mains is something i have only come across in Ireland and never saw in Twenty years as a gas fitter in England, it comes down to what is right and what is wrong, rant over:o, Gary.

Joey the lips

gary71 wrote: »

Joey, forgive me for being a big girls blouse, you did state that the regs didn't support fitting of a pump on the mains, but you're above post suggests that fitting a pump is a viable option when it's not, you can't pump what isn't there, i see a lot of pumps fitted to mains in Dublin, and it does my nut in that it's seen as normal practice when it's just sloppy work(i have seen heating water being sucked out due to a pump being fitted), if planned for there are answers to problems with low water pressure and fitting pumps to mains is something i have only come across in Ireland and never saw in Twenty years as a gas fitter in England, it comes down to what is right and what is wrong, rant over:o, Gary.

You are not allowed connect anything over 1/4 horse power directly to the mains. Hows that!:)

I called out to one of my boilers that had a intermittent fault, spent hours on the boiler, no idea what was the problem, i was fighting a losing battle, until the eureka moment when i noticed the pressure guage on the boiler dropping to 0 pressure from 2 bar and then back up to 2 bar again, the low pressure was causing the boiler to lock out and the pressure was dropping of when the customer opened any tap(colouring in the water) or flushed the toilet etc.. long story short this was a recently converted house with 6 apartments, one main coming in under the stairs and as there wasn't enough pressure to feed all the apartments the "plumber" decided to fit a two bar pump:eek: dohhh........ i could go on about the craziness of the situation, but the most annoying thing about these installations i come across is the readiness of builders, home owners, plumbers to take short cuts if it suits, sorry OP nothing to do with your post so I'll shut up:), Gary.

Outkast_IRE

Is mains pressure really that poor in places around the country ?? Im from cork and have only worked on plumbing in cork and mains is always 2-3 bar during the middle of the day??

cmsp.plumber

i came accross this before...t80 fitted not enough pressure for it to operate correctly. so swapped it for a t90 works fine now. not ideal but no way of getting a supply from tank. the pressure was 0.2bar. a t80 is a for high pressure not to be connected to the water main. for pressure 1bar or more. only 2 mains connections allowed in a premises kitchen sink and attic tank. t90 works 0.1-1.0bar. so try a tank fed shower

cmsp.plumber

gary71 wrote: »

I called out to one of my boilers that had a intermittent fault, spent hours on the boiler, no idea what was the problem, i was fighting a losing battle, until the eureka moment when i noticed the pressure guage on the boiler dropping to 0 pressure from 2 bar and then back up to 2 bar again, the low pressure was causing the boiler lock out.

combination boiler?

Joey the lips

cmsp.plumber wrote: »

i came accross this before...t80 fitted not enough pressure for it to operate correctly. so swapped it for a t90 works fine now. not ideal but no way of getting a supply from tank. the pressure was 0.2bar. a t80 is a for high pressure not to be connected to the water main. for pressure 1bar or more. only 2 mains connections allowed in a premises kitchen sink and attic tank. t90 works 0.1-1.0bar. so try a tank fed shower

:DI hope you did not leave a receipt. Because you can be sued for fitting the shower incorrecty when the pressure builds up at night and blows the T90 flooding the bathroom and the downstairs of the house.;)

cmsp.plumber

cmsp.plumber wrote: »

combination boiler?

Yep, and amazingly enough it turned out the flow of water out of the tap was hit and miss as well.

CMSP i got a question for you and without me coming across as a shower policeman/smart ass why would you fit something outside of the manufactures instructions, if there was (god forbid) any kind of water damage it's you the insurance company will come after, why take the risk?

As a boiler/cylinder manufactures engineer i get called out to jobs where things have gone pear shaped and have had to write reports where the product has not being fitted to manufactures instructions and the buck has stopped with the installer(and the bill for damage), i find some installers are free thinking:D and don't follow the book which can bite them in the ass:eek:, Gary.

Outkast_IRE

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Is mains pressure really that poor in places around the country ?? Im from cork and have only worked on plumbing in cork and mains is always 2-3 bar during the middle of the day??

I cover the whole of Ireland and i find water pressure in Dublin to give the most problems with pressure/flow rate and instead of telling a customer that you can't have a combi and come up with a workable plan, they(the bad ones) come up with funky ways of getting the boiler to run, till they get out the door then some how it's my fault when i call to find out why the house holder can't fill a bath, it's lucky I'm not bitter:), Gary.

Outkast_IRE

gary71 wrote: »

I cover the whole of Ireland and i find water pressure in Dublin to give the most problems with pressure/flow rate and instead of telling a customer that you can't have a combi and come up with a workable plan, they(the bad ones) come up with funky ways of getting the boiler to run, till they get out the door then some how it's my fault when i call to find out why the house holder can't fill a bath, it's lucky I'm not bitter:), Gary.

So what would be the best way to get a pressurised heating system up to pressure if the mains wont ? Just in case i encounter that problem some day?

Joey the lips

Mains pressure in ireland is sh1t. Triton do not suggest you use the triton T80 anywhere except dublin and galway. As the pressure in all other places including cork(The true capital blahhh blahhh blahhh) is bad.

cmsp.plumber

Joey the lips wrote: »

:DI hope you did not leave a receipt. Because you can be sued for fitting the shower incorrecty when the pressure builds up at night and blows the T90 flooding the bathroom and the downstairs of the house.;)

pressure reducing valve on the supply to shower, set at 0.8bar, just in case mains every increases with upgrades etc.. no other options

cmsp.plumber

Joey the lips wrote: »

Mains pressure in ireland is sh1t. Triton do not suggest you use the triton T80 anywhere except dublin and galway. As the pressure in all other places including cork(The true capital blahhh blahhh blahhh) is bad.

triton would not say that. a shower is not allowed connected to the main.

Joey the lips

cmsp.plumber wrote: »

triton would not say that. a shower is not allowed connected to the main.

No! T80 MAINS FED ELECTRIC SHOWER!

cmsp.plumber

Joey the lips wrote: »

No! T80 MAINS FED ELECTRIC SHOWER!

and....you even said u cant connected 2 the mains in a previous post. then u said fit a pump 2 it?!

Joey the lips

cmsp.plumber wrote: »

and....you even said u cant connected 2 the mains in a previous post. then u said fit a pump 2 it?!

No i did not. TRITON tell you that if you mains pressure fails that your T80 will not work. Its actually at the start of this thread what i said. So what you do is disconnect the T80 from the mains and fit a T450I to the tank. That way you are using 1 bar of pressure to open the valve on the shower. Read over again

It wont change anything. It does not matter. The T80 and almost every shower in the argos catalogue is designed to work of mains pressure.

In the case of this poster he had poor mains pressure and does not have a tank to interupt the supply

cmsp.plumber

gary71 wrote: »

Yep, and amazingly enough it turned out the flow of water out of the tap was hit and miss as well.

CMSP i got a question for you and without me coming across as a shower policeman/smart ass why would you fit something outside of the manufactures instructions, if there was (god forbid) any kind of water damage it's you the insurance company will come after, why take the risk?

As a boiler/cylinder manufactures engineer i get called out to jobs where things have gone pear shaped and have had to write reports where the product has not being fitted to manufactures instructions and the buck has stopped with the installer(and the bill for damage), i find some installers are free thinking:D and don't follow the book which can bite them in the ass:eek:, Gary.

i agree completely with you on free thinking! but that time i did go outside the box. have a pressure reducing valve fitted on shower supply...0.8bar.

Outkast_IRE

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

So what would be the best way to get a pressurised heating system up to pressure if the mains wont ? Just in case i encounter that problem some day?

I would say that a house with low incoming mains (less than 1 bar) is not suitable for a sealed system requiring 1bar+ and should be a open system or tank fed with a non return valve on the cold feed, if you come across a system that you can't fill then advise them that you would have to alter the pipe work to a better design or do as the get out the door merchants do and use a pump to pump water in the heating circuit which will last till someone bleeds the rads or pressure drops off again, another thing you could do is link out the low pressure switch which seems to be in vogue at the moment, Gary.

cmsp.plumber

Joey the lips wrote: »

Ahh, You will have to connect straight to the mains with the pump. Just limit the amount of applience use while your having a shower.

this is what you said.... connect straight to the mains. this is not allowed and 2 connections allowed your kitchen sink and roof tank....fact. doesnt matter what triton say. 2 connections is the law in rep of ireland. this also applies to combi boilers should not be connected to mains even tho everyone does

Joey the lips

cmsp.plumber wrote: »

this is what you said.... connect straight to the mains

Yes and i was corrected. The biggest pump that can be connected to the mains is a 1/4 horse power. I dont understand where your going. You said there is no such thing as a mains shower a T80 is a mains shower, end of story....You are starting to confuse me.

cmsp.plumber

cmsp.plumber wrote: »

i agree completely with you on free thinking! but that time i did go outside the box. have a pressure reducing valve fitted on shower supply...0.8bar.

I'm not bitching;) it's one of the biggest differences for me working here, I'm very regimented in my approach so i may not see a answer to a problem if it's not in the book, and i have seen some great lateral thinking here, i just don't understand why some installers will take the risk because if you are outside the book your on your own, Gary.

Overature

maybe you have run out of water?

Joey the lips

Overature wrote: »

maybe you have run out of water?

I dont think we are in kansas anymore follow the yellow brick road.

cmsp.plumber

Joey the lips wrote: »

I dont think we are in kansas anymore follow the yellow brick road.

hahaha brillant

Faerieality

mad m wrote: »

Those mains fed showers need atleast 1bar pressure. How is the mains pressure?

How can I measure my mains pressure? I'm on a group water scheme so it fluctuates a little.

Joey the lips

Faerieality wrote: »

How can I measure my mains pressure? I'm on a group water scheme so it fluctuates a little.

Get a pressure gauge or ask a plumber to measure it. If it were me i would get a plumber to measure it.

Outkast_IRE

Joey the lips wrote: »

Mains pressure in ireland is sh1t. Triton do not suggest you use the triton T80 anywhere except dublin and galway. As the pressure in all other places including cork(The true capital blahhh blahhh blahhh) is bad.

Cork city pressure is generally quite good Especially on the southside of city .... out of coincidence i had a pressure guage on at home recently and it was between 2 and 3 bar in middle of the day and in many pressurised systems that iv put in the mains has been well able to pressurise to well above 1 .
Out in Cork insitiute of technology we have been looking at incoming mains pressure guages recently and they are between 2 and 3 bar.