Tracing People's Addresses

jcdf

I was recently at an Opel car showroom looking at their cars. I did not stay long, fill out any forms or talk to anyone while there. I did park my car in view of the showroom though. And then afterwards I left.

A few days later I received advertising material from Opel, advertising their new Opel Astra and offering a VIP invite to one of their launch events. It was addressed to ‘The Householder’.

I do not or never have owned an Opel car. Neither have I ever bought a car from said showroom or know anybody who works there.

So how did they know my address?

[font=&quot]Is it possible for a citizen, other than a Garda, to ascertain a person’s address from their cars registration number or Tax or Insurance disc?[/font]

johnciall

did you give them your name? the may have looked you up on the electrol register

Paulw

Any chance it was a mass mailing to people in your area?

Since it wasn't addressed specifically to you, it may just be a coincidence that you visited an Opel garage.

niceirishfella

As it was addressed to the householder, it was'nt specific to you, more generic to your area.

And maybe, you're a bit paranoid.

Reloc8

I wouldn't go near one of them places without my tinfoil hat on. Or anywhere actually*twitchtwitchtwitch*

McCrack

Haha tinfoil hat stuff indeed.

Basically people can for a small fee apply to the local licensing authority for details (name and address) of the registered owner of a vehicle.

The situation you describe it's very very very unlikely Opel did such a thing.

jcdf

McCrack wrote: »

Haha tinfoil hat stuff indeed.

Basically people can for a small fee apply to the local licensing authority for details (name and address) of the registered owner of a vehicle.

The situation you describe it's very very very unlikely Opel did such a thing.

[font=&quot] I am not paranoid! I never said people or Opel were watching me.

It just that I rarely get any mail of this kind from anyone and so it is a bit suspicious that Opel would send me advertising literature now. Especially when consumer spending on everything including cars is right down.

I feel it is a legitimate concern that private individuals or corporations can gain access to something like a strangers home address from viewing their car number plate. I doubt Opel would pay for such information but the showrooms owners friend or relative could be a Garda.

We all know how corrupt the Garda are and I do not doubt they would allow persons access to private citizens information in exchange for money or favours.

You mentioned that people can for a small fee apply to the local licensing authority for details (name and address) of a vehicle owner, how much does this cost and under what circumstances can a person apply?[/font]

niceirishfella

jcdf wrote: »

[font=&quot] You mentioned that people can for a small fee apply to the local licensing authority for details (name and address) of a vehicle owner, how much does this cost and under what circumstances can a person apply?[/font]

+1


???

nuac

Re JCDF's statement " we all know how corrupt the Garda are" - I have worked professionally as a lawyer with and against Gardai of all ranks for 30++ years. I have never come across a case of corrupt Gardai. I accept there have been some, as in every walk of life, but it is wrong to make such a sweeping damaging statement.

slimjimmc

McCrack wrote: »

Basically people can for a small fee apply to the local licensing authority for details (name and address) of the registered owner of a vehicle.

I'm pretty sure the Data Protection folks would be interested in finding how this can be done.

OP it was a mass mailshot. They use 'householder' because a) they don't know who lives there and b) it bypasses any previous requests to not receive junk mail since it's not addressed to a named person.

jcdf

nuac wrote: »

Re JCDF's statement " we all know how corrupt the Garda are" - I have worked professionally as a lawyer with and against Gardai of all ranks for 30++ years. I have never come across a case of corrupt Gardai. I accept there have been some, as in every walk of life, but it is wrong to make such a sweeping damaging statement.

[font=&quot]Yes you are right, most Garda are decent honest people. But after hearing about Garda taking bribes from drug dealers, in exchange for providing them with knowledge of evidence and future criminal charges, one cannot doubt that some Garda would have no problems with providing individuals with confidential information on others.[/font]

slimjimmc wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the Data Protection folks would be interested in finding how this can be done.

So would I!

maidhc

jcdf wrote: »

[font=&quot]
You mentioned that people can for a small fee apply to the local licensing authority for details (name and address) of a vehicle owner, how much does this cost and under what circumstances can a person apply?[/font]

It costs €6 and that is about it. I don't see the big data protection issue (and I did a masters in it). You are driving a car in a public place with a reg plate the very purpose of which is to identify you.

the locust

jcdf wrote: »

[font=&quot]Yes you are right, most Garda are decent honest people. But after hearing about Garda taking bribes from drug dealers, in exchange for providing them with knowledge of evidence and future criminal charges, one cannot doubt that some Garda would have no problems with providing individuals with confidential information on others.[/font]

So would I!

Well if you heard a story about a garda taking bribes from drug dealers then there must be loads of them passing on personal data as 'they are corrupt as we all know' Sorry what grounds do you base that on to begin with?

Sorry! as agreed with above poster - thats a fairly sweeping damaging statement, ultra stereotypical cop thing. I know a lot of gardai in my line of work and have never come across a corrupt one yet in 20 years i agree than it does happen but not as often as hollywood makes out.

You seem to come across as a paranoid type. Do you think Opal pay some gopher to take down reg plates of whoever comes near thier premises and call the local garda snitch so they can send them junk mail?

No, no they do not.

slimjimmc

maidhc wrote: »

It costs €6 and that is about it.

Interesting, can you provide more details, preferably a source we can look at?

I don't see the big data protection issue (and I did a masters in it). You are driving a car in a public place with a reg plate the very purpose of which is to identify you.

I always thought the reg plate was to identify you to the authorities only not to the public and that your name and address is personally identifiable information. Am I wrong?

jcdf

slimjimmc wrote: »

Interesting, can you provide more details, preferably a source we can look at?


I always thought the reg plate was to identify you to the authorities only not to the public and that your name and address is personally identifiable information. Am I wrong?

Yes this is what I am getting at, only legitimate authorities should be able to trace you using the Reg plate of your car.

the locust wrote: »

Well if you heard a story about a garda taking bribes from drug dealers then there must be loads of them passing on personal data as 'they are corrupt as we all know' Sorry what grounds do you base that on to begin with?

Sorry! as agreed with above poster - thats a fairly sweeping damaging statement, ultra stereotypical cop thing. I know a lot of gardai in my line of work and have never come across a corrupt one yet in 20 years i agree than it does happen but not as often as hollywood makes out.

You seem to come across as a paranoid type. Do you think Opal pay some gopher to take down reg plates of whoever comes near thier premises and call the local garda snitch so they can send them junk mail?

No, no they do not.

I do not watch the wire. I am not paranoid as I have already said. The Opel garage knew my address without ever having contact with me. I hardly receive any post at all, junk or anything else as I have already said. Opel sent me advertising literature a few days after me setting foot inside one of their showrooms, I hardly ever visit motorcar showrooms. They must have obtained my address from somewhere and I think that the most likely place is my car. My home address is not on my car anywhere. There is only my registration plate, tax and insurance discs.

slimjimmc

jcdf wrote: »

Yes this is what I am getting at, only legitimate authorities should be able to trace you using the Reg plate of your car.

I do not watch the wire. I am not paranoid as I have already said. The Opel garage knew my address without ever having contact with me. I hardly receive any post at all, junk or anything else as I have already said. Opel sent me advertising literature a few days after me setting foot inside one of their showrooms, I hardly ever visit motorcar showrooms. They must have obtained my address from somewhere and I think that the most likely place is my car. My home address is not on my car anywhere. There is only my registration plate, tax and insurance discs.

If you're registered to vote then your name and address is on the electoral register, public record freely available to all. Direct marketing companies can use your details from the Edited register unless you've opted out.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/voting/registering-to-vote

The Edited Register contains the names and addresses of those voters who have indicated that their details can be used for other purposes (for example, for direct marketing use by a commercial company or other organisation).
If you do not want your details to be included in the Edited Register, you should tick the "opt out" box. If you want your details to be included in the Edited Register, that is, you are happy that commercial companies and other organisations will contact you with direct marketing, you should leave the "opt out" box blank.
If you do not tick the "opt out" box, it is assumed that you want your details to be included in the Edited Register, if you do not wish your details to appear on the Edited Register tick the "opt out" box.

You might have a point if you can show you were singled out for the junk mail. However if your neighbours also got it then put it down to coincidence.

Get a mate to go in next week, feign interest and see if he alone gets their junk mail soon after.

Reloc8

slimjimmc wrote: »

Get a mate to go in next week, feign interest and see if he alone gets their junk mail soon after.

Or, sit in a dark room with the curtains drawn and think OPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPELOPEL


and see if any more brochures arrive.

Ab roller plus

If you want the details of the registered owner of a car you just write to shannon with a 6 euro cheque. Standard practice for the insurance companys and lawyers.

In fact I remember working for one particular insurance company and they do background checks beofer hiring staff and during the claims process etc.

These checks would include a driving licence check, criminal conviction check and a social welfare check. Not sure how above board some of these were.

Our man in Havana

All very illegal I would say.

McCrack

There's nothing illegal about.

It does cost €6. I've done it many times (albeit on solicitors headed paper) to get registered owners details regarding personal injury claims.

The information is there for any interested party to get.

Our man in Havana

These checks would include a driving licence check, criminal conviction check and a social welfare check.

All very illegal without the subjects permission.

maidhc

Bond-007 wrote: »

All very illegal without the subjects permission.

Generally in these circumstances people have two options:

1) GIve the consent
2) Don't even bother thinking you will get the job

Our man in Havana

We are not talking about giving consent here. We are talking about organisations doing these checks without permission.

Reloc8

The funny thing is you hear about this anecdotally (evil insurance companies finding stuff out without permission) all the time and yet...

e.g : insurance company does dastardly illegal 'background check' e.g. as against a persons driving record. The thing is that in the event of a policy being sought for driving you're obliged to disclose this yourself.

Equally if a claim is made against an insurer person, the claimant is obliged (and compelled by court if necessary) to give details of RSI number, previous claims made, compensation recovered, whether claiming social security etc. etc. etc. So eh there's no need to do anything illegal to get this information.

As regards the nefarious 'lets see if eez got any convictions and stuff', I accept it is possible that somebody crooked with access to this or similar information could certainly pass it on over the fun to a grotty little insurance dogsbody but this would be utterly pointless if procured illegally like this - what are you going to do - stick the dogsbody in the witness box in front a judge and call evidence that you (the insurance company) go around breaking the law and have procured (by bribery presumably) the commission of an offence by a public official ? Eh.........Never going to happen.

And as regards job apps you have to consent for this to happen (as a matter of interest though best of look getting the gardai to screen job applications for claims handlers or ofice admin or what not speedily). Granted in respect of job apps this might be a situation where the information is of interest to the evil insurance company and could be used (in refusing someone a job) without having to demonstrate that the information was procured. Still, until someone shows me that this kind of nonsense is in fact widespread I am inclined to call bs even on this.

edit : actually I do seem to recall an article in the Sunday Tribune about a well known irish insurer which alleged that it had procured info from gardai in breach of law - the insurer threatened a defamation action, then I think everyone pretended it hadn't happened, from memory.