Rules Of Golf

thegen

I'll start with one which gets asked every week in any given club.

Red or Yellow stakes what is the rule?

RULES OF GOLF ANSWER:

“If your ball is in a water hazard you can certainly play another ball from the tee under penalty of one stroke, as this is one of the options under Rule 26-1 Relief for Ball in Water Hazard.

The Rule says; “Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played”.

However, unless the water hazard in front of the par-3 in question is a lateral water hazard (red stakes instead of yellow stakes) you cannot drop a ball two club-lengths before the hazard.

The only other relief option when your ball is in a water hazard (yellow stakes), under penalty of one stroke, is to drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped.

If the hazard is a lateral water hazard (red stakes) under penalty of one stroke, you can drop a ball WITHIN two club-lengths of the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard, not nearer the hole.”

This may sound a little complicated, but it is a very important Rule to understand, as sooner or later we all put our balls in water hazards!

Shannonsider

[
This may sound a little complicated, but it is a very important Rule to understand, as sooner or later we all put our balls in water hazards![/quote]

Speak for yourself!!

L.O.F.T

I hope its ok to post this link, its very useful and very simple
http://golf.about.com/od/rulesofgolf/a/faq_rules.htm

PhilipMarlowe

For the current 2009/2011 rule book online - http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/rules/rules_2008_2011.html

For the current 2008/2009 decisions on the rules - http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/decisions/decisions.html

charlieIRL

This is a rule that confuses me with the way its termed.

In laymans terms -
if YELLOW stakes you can either take another shot from the Tee OR drop a ball no closer to the water hazard and take a penalty stroke

and RED stakes you can only drop it within 2 club lenghts from the direction the ball went into the hazard and take a penalty stroke?

PhilipMarlowe

Never mind the colour of the stakes for starters....
When it's a water hazard, the important thing is the point where the ball crossed over the line into the hazard. It doesn't matter where it ended up splashing or where you find it in the stream... the point where it crossed is important.
When it goes in you have a few options.
If you find it, you can play it (usually dumb thing to do).
Let's assume you are not going to play it.
You have the option of re-hitting from where you last played so tee it up again or drop a ball if you were on the fairway. Here you take a penalty stroke and are no closer to the hole so generally you don't do this but sometimes it's the best option... like if it's a par 3 which is mostly over water.

The most common option chosen is to drop a ball near the hazard so you'll be at least closer to the hole than you were when you hit it into the drink in the first place.
You take the point where the ball last crossed over the margin of the hazard and you line this up with the flag. Now you are entitled to drop a ball into play anywhere along this line... go back as far as you like once you keep the point where you crossed into the hazard and the flag in line with each other. Drop a ball into play, add a penalty shot and off you go.

This applies for all water hazards, whatever the colour of the stakes...
Water hazards have yellow stakes and lateral water hazards have red stakes.
Lateral (RED) hazards give you a further option of dropping out sideways within 2 club lengths because by their design it's often not practical to keep the point of entry and the flag in line with each other. You still can proceed as above but also you can take the point where you crossed into the hazard and drop a ball within 2 club lengths of this point, not nearer the hole. Also, you can drop within 2 club lengths of a point on the opposite side of the hazard which is the same distance from the hole. This is handy if you go into a drain and perhaps you might have an easier shot from the other side of the drain... all within the rules so long as it's marked with red stakes.

Other random stuff...
Sometimes a body of water will have part of it marked with yellow stakes and another part of it on the same hole has red stakes... usually the red ones will be 'beside' the green and the yellow ones more in front.
You don't have to find your original ball... you can drop a substitute. If you do find your original, you can clean it before you drop it back into play.
You have to be "virtually certain" that the ball is lost in the hazard and not just "lost". If you can't find it and can't be sure that it went into the hazard and not over the fence then you have to treat is as a lost ball and re-hit from the original spot under stroke and distance penalty.

charlieIRL

thats great Licksy, cheers for that.

GreeBo

Licksy wrote: »

It doesn't matter where it ended up splashing or where you find it in the stream... the point where it crossed is important.

Unless it has floated OOB in which case your ball is now OOB and you must replay the original shot.
A terrible rule IMO and one which can be very difficult to enforce.
e.g. You would have a very hard time trying to convince me that a ball we both saw enter a water hazard that now cannot be found "must" have floated OOB.

Daithio9

GreeBo wrote: »

A terrible rule IMO and one which can be very difficult to enforce.

Not difficult at all if common sense is applied.
You do not have to find your ball in a water hazard for you to be virtually certain that it is in the water hazard.

Also you would have to see it OOB to know for certain that it is in fact OOB otherwise if you both saw it enter the water hazard and you cannot find the ball atall then you proceed as normal under rule 26-1.

jimbling

Few questions on when the water is out of sight.
1) Everyone hears the splash, but nobody sees the ball enter the water. How do you define where to drop your replacement ball?
2) Its too far away to hear a splash. Does that have to be declared lost, as you did not actually see it go into the water?

This happened to me a few weeks ago in a round. It was on the 18th hole where the water is over to the left hand side. I hit my rescue club and pulled the hell out of the ball. I figured it must have gone in the water but wasnt sure. I hit a pro v as I presumed if I couldn't find the ball along the waters edge I would have to declare it lost.

I did actually find it when I got up there, but it struck me as a bit of a pain that if it wasn't sitting right on the edge of the water that I would have had to declare it lost.

PhilipMarlowe

From the decisions book:
If a ball has been struck towards a water hazard and has not been found, the term "known or virtually certain" indicates the level of confidence that the ball is in the water hazard that is required for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1. A player may not assume that his ball is in a water hazard simply because there is a possibility that the ball may be in the hazard. If it is not known that the ball is in the water hazard, in order for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1 there must be almost no doubt that the ball is in the hazard. Otherwise, a ball that cannot be found must be considered lost outside the hazard and the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.

All available evidence must be taken into account in determining whether knowledge or virtual certainty exists, including any testimony and the physical conditions in the area around the water hazard. For example, if a water hazard is surrounded by a fairway on which a ball could hardly be lost, there exists a greater certainty that the ball is in the hazard than there would be if there were deep rough in the area. Observing a ball splash in a water hazard would not necessarily provide knowledge or virtual certainty as to the location of the ball as sometimes such a ball may skip out of a hazard.

The same principle would apply for a ball that may have been moved by an outside agency (Rule 18-1) or a ball that has not been found and may be in an obstruction (Rule 24-3) or an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1c). (Revised)

PhilipMarlowe

You use your best judgement as to where the ball crossed into the hazard and you get your markers/fellow competitors/opponents agreement to this.

GreeBo

Daithio9 wrote: »

Not difficult at all if common sense is applied.
You do not have to find your ball in a water hazard for you to be virtually certain that it is in the water hazard.

Also you would have to see it OOB to know for certain that it is in fact OOB otherwise if you both saw it enter the water hazard and you cannot find the ball atall then you proceed as normal under rule 26-1.

Ok but consider the scenario where the river is fast flowing. Do you look for your ball to determine if its still in the hazard or not? Can you just take your drop before you get to the hazard? What would you do if your opponent did this against you?
The R&A even suggest that a barrier should be erected to prevent this from happening. Seems to me the easiest course of action would be to remove this rule in this scenario.

Rule 26-1 wouldnt apply as "it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in a water hazard".
You cannot be certain of this in a fast flowing river.

GreeBo

If you ball comes to rest on a bridge over a water hazard then your ball is effectively in the water hazard. However you may ground your club on the bridge as the bridge is an obstruction in the hazard.

Also
Note: At any time, including at address or in the backward movement for the stroke, the player may touch, with a club or otherwise, any obstruction, any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course or any grass, bush, tree or other growing thing.

So it seems that you can touch the grass, reeds, weeds etc but you cannot touch the water or the "ground".
I always thought you couldnt touch anything.

PhilipMarlowe

You can touch the (tall) grass... grounding is considered to be touching to the extent that the weight of the club can be supported.
But if you barely brush a couple of grains of sand in your backswing in a bunker it's a penalty. Clear as mud.

GreeBo

Licksy wrote: »

You can touch the (tall) grass... grounding is considered to be touching to the extent that the weight of the club can be supported.
But if you barely brush a couple of grains of sand in your backswing in a bunker it's a penalty. Clear as mud.

well the rule says "any grass" but I agree, if the weight of the club is taken then you grounded it.

stockdam

Licksy wrote: »

When it's a water hazard, the important thing is the point where the ball crossed over the line into the hazard.

Just to clarify this......it's the point at which the ball last entered the hazard.

So take for example a case where you are driving over water and the water also then runs along the side of the fairway. Consider the example when your drive passes over the water and then "exits" the hazard but then due to it's flight (say a hook) it passes back over the hazard boundary and ends up in the hazard. There are two entry points (and one exit point). You use the 2nd entry point and not the first. However if your ball only crossed the boundary once then you use the first point. It's important to remember this......you may be hitting over water to a raised green and your ball clearly makes it past the hazard but hits the bank leading up to the green and rolls back into the hazard. The last point of entry is the point where it rolled back in and not where it first crossed the boundary.

stockdam

It's also important to know that you can drop on EITHER side of a lateral hazard (red stakes). So if you go into a lateral water hazard that runs down the side of a green then you can drop out on the side closest to the green but not closer to the hole compared to the spot on the boundary that's equidistant from the flag to the ball and the boundary point (even if your entry point was on the other side).

jj72

Guys just a question on equipment!!!

Can you use a ''jigger' in competition? i thought they were banned years ago but whats the official R & A stance?

i dont use one but a friend does and i told him i thought they were banned. he wasnt sure either.

Mister Sifter

jj72 wrote: »

Guys just a question on equipment!!!

Can you use a ''jigger' in competition? i thought they were banned years ago but whats the official R & A stance?

i dont use one but a friend does and i told him i thought they were banned. he wasnt sure either.

Yeah, you can use one. They're perfectly legit. However, it is in the rules that your playing partners must take the mickey out of you for doing so!!

jj72

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Yeah, you can use one. They're perfectly legit. However, it is in the rules that your playing partners must take the mickey out of you for doing so!!

Thats great thanks....We follow 'both' rules perefctly then

BigAl>>

If one is playing a par 5 and hits 2nd shot into longish grass just off the fair way and after walking to where the ball landed you cant find it and loose the ball:eek: wht is the rulling??

1: trek back to the original point of 2nd shot and rehit?

2: drop ball in area where ball is lost?

3: scratch hole and move on?

thegen

BigAl>> wrote: »

If one is playing a par 5 and hits 2nd shot into longish grass just off the fair way and after walking to where the ball landed you cant find it and loose the ball:eek: wht is the rulling??

1: trek back to the original point of 2nd shot and rehit?

2: drop ball in area where ball is lost?

3: scratch hole and move on?

1: Go back to the original point of 2nd shot and play your 4th shot from there

PhilipMarlowe

0. Better to play a provisional if you think it may be lost before going forward but it can often happen that you'd lose a ball that you'd expect you'd find, especially this time of year with soft ground, leaves etc.
1. Go back to where you hit from, drop a ball and hit your 4th.
2. Dropping near where you think it was lost is not an option
3. Scratch the hole and move on is fine in Stableford.
3a. You can elect to scratch the hole in strokeplay and still play out the rest of the holes. You could still have a score for handicap purposes but no score in the competition (for handicap purposes, your card is always adjusted as if it was a stableford competition).

BigAl>>

Thanks for tht:D