Ground Source Heatpumps : Price and Experiences

ninjaBob

I am currently looking into various Heatpumps

-Dimplex
-IVT
-Nibe

and various others. If anyone has any experience wth a particular brand of heat pump and the costs associated if you could PM me please.

Cheers

Poor Uncle Tom

ninjaBob is looking for PM's of heat pump recommendations and PM's of pumps to stay away from, most economical etc.,.......

damian1250

Best advice on heat pumps. Run away, go wood pellet. I have done my homework, asked questions (got lots of lies) and installed wood pellet, not cheap to install but very happy with heating costs. Friends with Geothermal getting horrific ESB bills and cant afford to change it now. Remember most electricity is made with OIL and when the price of oil increases so does electricity.

sinnerboy

Not quite what you asked for - but you should find this of interest all the same

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/10/heat-pumps-in-action

ninjaBob

From what I have read here on Boards and other sites with Wood Pellet you are at the Mercy of the Wood Pellet suppliers when it comes to cost as well. So if they want to hike the price of the pellets there is not much you can do.

Many people have told me to stay clear of wood pellets (check my post history you will see I posted about wood pellet systems). Most people pm'd me to say stay clear of them.

The reason I am staying away from wood pellet:

1. Depending on the boiler you get, you need to clean out the ash. Even a few grams of ash can drastically reduce the efficiency of the boiler. So you need to ensure it's cleaned as per the suppliers instructions.

2. If you don't have an automatic feeder you need to fill up the boiler every few days or so depending on consumption levels.

3. To be cost effective you need bulk storage for it.

4. If the pellets consume any degree of moisture the level efficiency decreases

So there are also alot of issues relating to wood pellet boilers, oil boilers, air to water or geothermal. It's not simply a clear cut case of one system being better than others, each system has it's purpose and a list of instructions that need to be followed to ensure it functions correctly.

Anyway if anyone has any advice on heatpumps (costs, types etc).

ThePiedPiper

Not a personal experience but I know a plumber who does geothermal heating almost exclusively for customers. He put his own system in a few years back, was gettin killed on electricity, and has since taken the whole thing out and put in a condensor boiler.

I've spoken to loads of people who've gotten it done. All agree that it produces a good even heat (as does any UFH system by the way). A couple of people were able to admit that they wish they'd never gotten it done. Others find it difficult to admit they've literally buried 15-20k of equipment in the ground and have an increase in ESB bills that would run an oil condensor boiler..

ninjaBob

This is what I want to avoid, putting in a system which costs 20k and only then find out it's rubbish. With that said I need facts and first hand experiences on this, as conjecture, second hand information and people peddling agendas (not saying anyone has done it in this post, but it does happen on forums).

I am being realistic about the system, I expect my ESB bills will be higher as a result, but I won't have any additional fuel costs (pellets, oil, gas). Nor do I have the hassle of topping up the fuel source and with any system if it's not setup correctly it will cause us alot of headaches and more expense.

Eventually I aim on having a wind turbine (within 24 months) which will offset the cost of the system somewhat.

What I would really love to know is what heat pumps or companies I should avoid.

RKQ

PM sent based on my personal experience.

No6

Welcome Back RKQ

yop

From out experience, installed now nearly 4 years.

We got our, a Heliotherm, installed with UFH both upstairs and down. UFH installed by myself and under the instruction from the guys who sold me the GSHP I cut down the loop gaps to 50mm max, this reduces the running temp of our heat pump and also gives a more even heat.
The heat pump also controls all temperatures so we don't have seperate thermostats on each room.

Heatpump when installed for a 2100 sq ft house was 12,300 euros. Got the grant also which took it down to 8500 euro.
Our electrical costs for the house inc lights, hot water, heat, etc is 1200 per year.

I have heard of a few people who have got GSHPs installed but this was down to the amount of cowboys who seemed to have entered the market during the boom, electrical bills of 3k euro was one that came from a friend of mine. Needless to say the plumber who installed his GSHP was on his first install.
Turned out the heat pump was incorrectly installed and under sized. Also it was installed out in the shed so there was heatloss from the trip into the house.

Its like anything, getting you car serviced, your PC fixed etc, if the person doesn't know EXACTLY what they are at you will end up paying for it.

Don't be put off by the GSHP stories, BUT look at EVERY alternative.

voodoo

RKQ, can you PM me also... something very dear to my heart at moment also...

V6DEC

ninjaBob/RKQ would you please PM me too. Currently considering Geothermal and would really like to hear feedback/review's for users who now have knowledge/experience/running costs. Thanks.

damian1250

ninjaBob wrote: »

This is what I want to avoid, putting in a system which costs 20k and only then find out it's rubbish. With that said I need facts and first hand experiences on this, as conjecture, second hand information and people peddling agendas (not saying anyone has done it in this post, but it does happen on forums).

I am being realistic about the system, I expect my ESB bills will be higher as a result, but I won't have any additional fuel costs (pellets, oil, gas). Nor do I have the hassle of topping up the fuel source and with any system if it's not setup correctly it will cause us alot of headaches and more expense.

Eventually I aim on having a wind turbine (within 24 months) which will offset the cost of the system somewhat.

What I would really love to know is what heat pumps or companies I should avoid.

HI,
Friends 3rd ESB bill was €1123 !!! Also suppliers tell you heat pumps pay for themselfs over 5 years, only thing is the warranty on the heat pump is over after that time and the pumps usually burn out and they cost thousands to replace so if it does pay for itself by then you will basicly be buying a new one at this stage. Basicly parts are expensive. Pellets do need room for storage so its important to plan for this now, there not that expensive and there are plenty of suppliers, if there kept inside they will stay dry.
On the wind turbine side you will be looking at a unit at around €15k to be of any use or difference to bills and its going to be BIG I have gone down this road also. Best thing to do to save money is install a good size buffer tank and fit solar panels to that it will make a big difference to whatever heating system you fit.
One other thing insulate, insulate, insulate then fit more insulation, remember if you can keep the heat in and the cold out your heating system wont be burning fuel to heat a hot room

yop

damian1250 wrote: »

HI,
Friends 3rd ESB bill was €1123 !!! Also suppliers tell you heat pumps pay for themselfs over 5 years, only thing is the warranty on the heat pump is over after that time and the pumps usually burn out and they cost thousands to replace so if it does pay for itself by then you will basicly be buying a new one at this stage. Basicly parts are expensive. Pellets do need room for storage so its important to plan for this now, there not that expensive and there are plenty of suppliers, if there kept inside they will stay dry.
On the wind turbine side you will be looking at a unit at around €15k to be of any use or difference to bills and its going to be BIG I have gone down this road also. Best thing to do to save money is install a good size buffer tank and fit solar panels to that it will make a big difference to whatever heating system you fit.
One other thing insulate, insulate, insulate then fit more insulation, remember if you can keep the heat in and the cold out your heating system wont be burning fuel to heat a hot room

God but I hate these generalisations, where does it say that "the pumps usually burn out" and parts are expensive.

Its as easy for me to say that the option of wind turbines which you went down, that the blades and motors will burn out and that the parts are expensive, but I have no experience of these systems.
So fleeting statements won't help the OP, he asked for peoples experiences with GSHP.

With regards your statement about insulation I totally agree, its vital to your heating costs.

damian1250

Hi,
Sorry i should have mentioned that im taking exprerience from a friend that had this problem and is faced with a €5k bill to sort out his heat pump. Can i assure you i have done my homework on heating systems and it took 2 years to finally commit to a system. These systems play on the fact that they are taking heat from the ground often quoted as "free heat", these systems were developed in places like Iceland etc where there is a natural ground heat not like Ireland and if this ground collector is so good why isnt it used on oil burners, pellet burners and other heating systems as a pre heat which is what it is.
Final note is the cheapest way to heat your house at the moment and for a while now is with oil but this will eventually change!

damian1250

Has anybody actually asked the question of heat pump life span and replacment costs !! I have and the rep went very quite. I have had the moon and stars promised to me when gathering quotes e.g guarenteed €60/annum for all my domestic hot water !!! and even a statment that they wwould change out the system for oil if i wasent happy with ESB bills.
But to each there own and each will stand behind there system be it good or bad.

ninjaBob

Yes, this is the first thing I asked, with one company I secured :

1 year next day exchange directly from the supplier
2 year parts warranty directly from the supplier
5 year manufacturers warranty
10 year extended warranty

So I am fairly happy with that scenario if something is wrong or goes wrong that I am covered. Even if the supplier goes bust I am covered, unfortunately if the manufacturer goes bust then the warranty means nothing, but that would be the same with any product. I have also been investigating which heat pumps have people who can service them within my area.

One thing that you pointed out in your previous posts is: "Insulate, Insulate, Insulate".

I've done just that and because I have insulated so heavily the heat pump will not have to run as long or as hard and the heat will remain within the house longer, thus ensuring that I have to spend less to heat the house.

I've read others who have gone through ~5000 tonnes of wood pellets in a year and have wood pellet boilers on 24/7. Others who have claimed that they have spent €1500 per esb bill on heatpumps.

Given the information I've read and the pm's I've received, I made my choice and have gone for a ground source heatpump. I will post and let you all know how it works out initially and over the longer term.

Cheers

yop

ninjaBob wrote: »

Yes, this is the first thing I asked, with one company I secured :

1 year next day exchange directly from the supplier
2 year parts warranty directly from the supplier
5 year manufacturers warranty
10 year extended warranty

So I am fairly happy with that scenario if something is wrong or goes wrong that I am covered. Even if the supplier goes bust I am covered, unfortunately if the manufacturer goes bust then the warranty means nothing, but that would be the same with any product. I have also been investigating which heat pumps have people who can service them within my area.

One thing that you pointed out in your previous posts is: "Insulate, Insulate, Insulate".

I've done just that and because I have insulated so heavily the heat pump will not have to run as long or as hard and the heat will remain within the house longer, thus ensuring that I have to spend less to heat the house.

I've read others who have gone through ~5000 tonnes of wood pellets in a year and have wood pellet boilers on 24/7. Others who have claimed that they have spent €1500 per esb bill on heatpumps.

Given the information I've read and the pm's I've received, I made my choice and have gone for a ground source heatpump. I will post and let you all know how it works out initially and over the longer term.

Cheers

Meant to also mention that the DX(Direct Expansion) GSHP is a better system than the brine system.

Lightning McQue

ninjaBob

Could you pm those personal experiences you had please.

Thanks.

Lightning

icbarros

You may want give a look at this article:
http://constructireland.ie/articles/0218geodynamics.php

Chief99

Hi NinjaBob/RKQ

Could you please pm me the personal experiences you had with the geothermal systems.
Have been looking at this for nearly a year and still no decision made!

Cheers