Celebrity Deaths

General Zod

I think it's time for a fair discussion on Celebrity Death threads.

It more or less ends up turning into bans for anyone who doesn't just say "CELEBRITY NAME RIP" and anyone who tries to discuss the circumstances based on what little information is available (and people are going to discuss the circumstances regardless of what information is available, it's human nature) get jumped on by moral high horse riders who shout them down saying "He's barely dead in the ground!!!!one!1!"

So, please clarify the rules. Is there to be zero humor whatso ever to be displayed in those threads?

If so, what humour is acceptable? What is the time frame before a joke can be made?

Is there a sliding scale based on the person?

If for example, the celebrity choked to death on his own vomit, can we reference spinal tap or Jimi Hendrix?

If not, how long before we can?

I know this is a public forum, but let's be honest here, nothing is said here that isn't said down the pub or anywhere else in public.

Now, while tragic for the family, friends and business aquaintances of the celebrity, not everyone is suddenly going to go po faced and rub ashes onto their faces and start keening. People are going to talk about it, so why are Boards so heavy handed about it?

One user was banned in the recent thread for saying "one or two idiots" without actually naming names, and got banned for personal abuse.

I know it's a tough job moderating but what is it about Celebrity deaths that makes the mods of Boards go into overdrive and banning for stuff that doesn't normally get banned for?

Does every topic have to be "play nice and don't say what you really think", or just celebrity deaths?

stovelid

I think the threads should just be removed from AH, or perhaps have a RIP/Celeb Deaths sub-forum where people can swing by and say RIP and whatever.

At the moment, there seems to an overly aggressive policy of not allowing either speculation (fair enough) or jokes which kind of renders the threads useless.

tbh

I think there should be two threads: a "condolences" thread, where people can expect not to see jokes, and a "discussion" thread, where people should accept there may be insensitive material and can avoid if they wish. The former in celeb and showbiz, the latter in AH, and zero-tolerance policy from the mods in both.

stovelid

tbh wrote: »

where people should accept there may be insensitive material and can avoid if they wish.

I may be mistaken but I'm nearly sure a pig just flew past my window?

tbh

stovelid wrote: »

I may be mistaken but I'm nearly sure a pig just flew past my window?

I know what you mean. I'm sure there will be people who won't read the rules and will take/cause offense, but in that situation, the mods can point to the structure and say, if you don't like it, use the other thread.

stovelid

tbh wrote: »

I know what you mean. I'm sure there will be people who won't read the rules and will take/cause offense, but in that situation, the mods can point to the structure and say, if you don't like it, use the other thread.

I agree with you. There should be a place for RIPs where people are not allowed to come in and piss on the parade, but as you say, just not in AH.

dr.bollocko

Discussion is OK. Speculation is OK to a point. Making cruel jokes is something that has caused many problems in the past so we think it best to remove them out of respect. I don't see a problem with that? Why is there an urge to make these jokes about the recently deceased? Why should AH be the place for these jokes?

General Zod

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Discussion is OK. Speculation is OK to a point. Making cruel jokes is something that has caused many problems in the past so we think it best to remove them out of respect. I don't see a problem with that? Why is there an urge to make these jokes about the recently deceased? Why should AH be the place for these jokes?

It's not just about jokes. Lets face it, people are going to make jokes about any situation at all you can think of. And it's not anyone trying to be an After Hours Hero and get lots of "thanks", it's what people do. but that's not really my point.

It's the death of someone and however tragic that persons death, people are going to talk about it and limiting conversation to "what a shame, it's so sad, RIP" isn't fair, it limits discussion on what is supposed to be a discussion site.

My name is URL

stovelid wrote: »

I agree with you. There should be a place for RIPs where people are not allowed to come in and piss on the parade, but as you say, just not in AH.

+ infinity

If someone goes of topic by not posting an RIP they'll get laced into by blowins that never post in AH.. gtfo I say, idiots writing long winded bullshit about someone they don't even know

It'd give you diabetes just reading it

Handsome Bob

tbh wrote: »

I think there should be two threads: a "condolences" thread, where people can expect not to see jokes, and a "discussion" thread, where people should accept there may be insensitive material and can avoid if they wish. The former in celeb and showbiz, the latter in AH, and zero-tolerance policy from the mods in both.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, it suggests that C&S is a lightweight forum only fit for RIPs whereas AH is more 'deserving' of the discussion thread. Maybe both forums could have two threads each no?

I'm sure things would be fine if people kept things civil, I'm sure discussion wouldn't be stifled if people just used a bit of common sense instead of resorting to personal abuse or making jokes that are bound to rile people.

Boston

General Zod wrote: »

It's not just about jokes. Lets face it, people are going to make jokes about any situation at all you can think of. And it's not anyone trying to be an After Hours Hero and get lots of "thanks", it's what people do. but that's not really my point.

It's the death of someone and however tragic that persons death, people are going to talk about it and limiting conversation to "what a shame, it's so sad, RIP" isn't fair, it limits discussion on what is supposed to be a discussion site.

Why do you have such a burning need to attack a dead man. A person who by all accounts was no better or worse then anyone else? Why should boards.ie facilitate such puerile nonsense? Why should the tone be lowered thus.

stovelid

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm sure things would be fine if people kept things civil,

By keeping things civil, I trust you mean anodyne proclamations of grief and shout-outs to "the family".

I actually know somebody who is friends with Stephen Gately, and while I don't know SG at all, hearing about his death made me quite sad, not least because of his age and the fact that he seems like a good lad.

This, however, doesn't mean I'm offended by the kind of stupid jokes that are at this minute proliferating the nation via text and email, or that I have to parade around AH in sackcloth and ashes.

Handsome Bob

stovelid wrote: »

By keeping things civil, I trust you mean anodyne proclamations of grief and shout-outs to "the family".

Have you ever had a debate or discussion about something without resorting to childish behaviour or personal abuse? If you have, then you kept things civil. I'm sure you can talk about whatever you want if you back it up reasonably without coming across as a troll.

General Zod

Boston wrote: »

Why do you have such a burning need to attack a dead man. A person who by all accounts was no better or worse then anyone else? Why should boards.ie facilitate such puerile nonsense? Why should the tone be lowered thus.

I'm not talking about Stephen Gately in particular, I'm talking about celebrity death threads overall.

I wouldn't attack the guy. I just felt discussion of the events has been stifled by the "if you've nothing nice to say, don't say anything" brigade, and it's a common trait on Celebrity death threads.

Handsome Bob

General Zod wrote: »

I wouldn't attack the guy. I just felt discussion of the events has been stifled by the "if you've nothing nice to say, don't say anything" brigade, and it's a common trait on Celebrity death threads.

I'm not asking for direct quotes but can you give any general examples of what you mean?

Jazzy

Boston wrote: »

Why do you have such a burning need to attack a dead man. A person who by all accounts was no better or worse then anyone else? Why should boards.ie facilitate such puerile nonsense? Why should the tone be lowered thus.

why not though? for the black you need the white

Boston

Human decency? It's a very Irish thing to take delight in the misfortune even death of others.

General Zod wrote: »

I'm not talking about Stephen Gately in particular, I'm talking about celebrity death threads overall.

I wouldn't attack the guy. I just felt discussion of the events has been stifled by the "if you've nothing nice to say, don't say anything" brigade, and it's a common trait on Celebrity death threads.

I think we can all agree memorial threads should be left in peace. So the question is should we allow threads which actively deride the dead? Which is tantamount to a "Good taste" policy. It's all far too subjective to have a hard and fast rule stating "After X days you can make a level Y joke about a celebrity". I think it should be entrusted to the moderators to use their own judgement in deciding what does and doesn't cross the line. Kinda like porn, they'll know it when they see it.

Stargal

tbh wrote: »

I think there should be two threads: a "condolences" thread, where people can expect not to see jokes, and a "discussion" thread, where people should accept there may be insensitive material and can avoid if they wish. The former in celeb and showbiz, the latter in AH, and zero-tolerance policy from the mods in both.

^^What tbh said.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure about that, it suggests that C&S is a lightweight forum only fit for RIPs whereas AH is more 'deserving' of the discussion thread. Maybe both forums could have two threads each no?

I'm sure things would be fine if people kept things civil, I'm sure discussion wouldn't be stifled if people just used a bit of common sense instead of resorting to personal abuse or making jokes that are bound to rile people.

I didn't take that meaning from it at all, to be honest. If anything, it's saying that C&S can be the place to talk about the person and offer condolences, whereas AH will be more of a critical look at the person, jokes included. Doesn't make it lightweight, just different.

I do like your idea of just asking people to keep things civil but in practice that just hasn't worked. There's a sharp divide between what boardsies want from a celebrity death thread. There have been times in the past where both C&S and AH posters have gotten very angry/upset with insensitive posts on a celebrity death thread (and at the same time, the people making the jokes didn't get why people were being so sensitive about it).

Rb

If people want to make jokes about the recently deceased they should keep it to lolocaust, however discussion about the events surrounding the death should be ok and it's a bit of a joke if "RIP Stephen, I've spent the whole night crying over pictures of you yet we never met" crap is allowed be posted on a discussion forum, yet literal discussion is prohibited.

Either have discussion & RIP in public or none at all.

Handsome Bob

Stargal wrote: »

I didn't take that meaning from it at all, to be honest. If anything, it's saying that C&S can be the place to talk about the person and offer condolences, whereas AH will be more of a critical look at the person, jokes included. Doesn't make it lightweight, just different.

Would you not like to have a critical discussion in your forum?

dr.bollocko

Rb wrote: »

Either have discussion & RIP in public or none at all.

That'd be my thoughts on it exactly and that can happen within AH and is happening. There is discussion on the death and surrounding it. We've just made some rules to clarify that jokes aren't welcomed and changed the thread title to let the posters know where the rules are and to read them. People break rules we set then we have to act on that. We're not ban crazy but if somebody wants to take a crass swipe / make a cheap joke about a dead celeb after being told it's not welcome then you can't do much else other than take action.

Jazzy

Boston wrote: »

Human decency? It's a very Irish thing to take delight in the misfortune even death of others.

yes, probably so EXCLUSIVE to ireland that the sun would be all over it

Stargal

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Would you not like to have a critical discussion in your forum?

A fair, nuanced, not-just-full-of-platitudes discussion - Yes. An antagonistic slagging match - No thanks.

My view is that people who want to pay respects or say something about the person who died will generally respect criticisms of the celebrity, but not jokes and trolling. The threads when Michael Jackson died were a great example of this; you had people who a) worshipped him, b) thought he was ok but were repulsed by the child sex abuse allegations and c) people who just saw him as a punchline. A + B should be in a thread together, C should be in a totally separate one.

Sherifu

The thread about Zach Braff earlier this evening was kinda silly. It only takes a quick news search to check these things.

Boston

Jazzy wrote: »

yes, probably so EXCLUSIVE to ireland that the sun would be all over it

You make a good point, we probably did get it off the brits. Damn you imperialists!

DeVore

Stargal wrote: »

A fair, nuanced, not-just-full-of-platitudes discussion - Yes. An antagonistic slagging match - No thanks.

My view is that people who want to pay respects or say something about the person who died will generally respect criticisms of the celebrity, but not jokes and trolling. The threads when Michael Jackson died were a great example of this; you had people who a) worshipped him, b) thought he was ok but were repulsed by the child sex abuse allegations and c) people who just saw him as a punchline. A + B should be in a thread together, C should be in a totally separate one.

That seems like a very reasonable approach.

DeV.

Boston

I recall a thread about a well known trinity personality dying on the TCD forum. Several members made this person to be an absolute saint, however I and others pointed out the numerous times he'd be arrested for assault and sexual harassment. I like Stargal's approach, but ultimately I see the D opinion (That its a damn good thing the bastard is dead) not being allowed anywhere. Then again, maybe thats no dad thing?

Rabble: What a bollix.
*person dies*
Rabble: What a saint.

Handsome Bob

Stargal wrote: »

A fair, nuanced, not-just-full-of-platitudes discussion - Yes. An antagonistic slagging match - No thanks.

My view is that people who want to pay respects or say something about the person who died will generally respect criticisms of the celebrity, but not jokes and trolling. The threads when Michael Jackson died were a great example of this; you had people who a) worshipped him, b) thought he was ok but were repulsed by the child sex abuse allegations and c) people who just saw him as a punchline. A + B should be in a thread together, C should be in a totally separate one.

There you go, I agree. I was just saying that C&S was perfectly capable of hosting a good and fair discussion (more than just getting shafted with an RIP thread), that's all.