H&M Cork, the latest rip off merchants??

eden_my_ass

I'm sure a few Corkonians have visited the new flagship store open in the Opera Lane development, but next time you're there feel free to have a little peel off of the magic stickers above the Irish price to see what your British neighbours are paying for the same items...from the few I tried they seem to have done their Cork purchasing a number of years ago, since a 99 euro coat costs 70 pounds...and other items seem to tip as low as that magic .66 pound to the euro figure.

Please see for yourself and make a decision whether to support such a retailer. Is this really what we want more of in Cork after so many companies this year have been forced to cop on and revisit their Irish pricing. It will be interesting to see what prices GAP come in at??

minidazzler

There are costs that you don't see in H&M.

Rent and Insurance cost alot more for stores over here than they do in England, Staff are paid better, it's more expensive to ship the clothes here.

There are ALOT more hidden costs than you know about here.

diego ribas

I prefer shopping in Pennys were I'm guaranteed that some 8 year old girl has put her heart and soul in the making of my garments in some shoddy sweat shop.

I find it very satisfying.

Vinta81

^ Oh Lord

H&M is very disappointing anyways. "Gap" will be better!

Cadiz

minidazzler wrote: »

There are costs that you don't see in H&M.

Rent and Insurance cost alot more for stores over here than they do in England, Staff are paid better, it's more expensive to ship the clothes here.

There are ALOT more hidden costs than you know about here.

H&M is not English, it's Swedish. People there are paid more highly than here or the UK.

The clothes are made predominantly in Asia. The cost of shipping from there to the Irish stores would not be significantly higher than shipping to the UK (and anyway, even if it was, and this is there reason for a 33 per cent price hike, why are NI stores so much cheaper??).

H&M's US store clothes are also cheaper.

Top Shop in Dublin averages 33 per higher prices there than in the store on Oxford St in London.

While some costs in the UK may be lower, they are not 33 per cent lower.

minidazzler

Vinta81 wrote: »

^ Oh Lord

H&M is very disappointing anyways. "Gap" will be better!

Ah, I heard they are hiring all sorts of heads in Gap to be honest, I wouldn't trust the staff at all myself.

minidazzler

Cadiz wrote: »

H&M is not English, it's Swedish. People there are paid more highly than here or the UK.

The clothes are made predominantly in Asia. The cost of shipping from there to the Irish stores would not be significantly higher than shipping to the UK (and anyway, even if it was, and this is there reason for a 33 per cent price hike, why are NI stores so much cheaper??).

H&M's US store clothes are also cheaper.

Top Shop in Dublin averages 33 per higher prices there than in the store on Oxford St in London.

While some costs in the UK may be lower, they are not 33 per cent lower.

Well, insurance would be a helluva lot lower over there for a store.

But also, we irish are used to being ripped off, you can't blame H&M for jumping on the band wagon. It's unlikely I will be buying anything in there anyway so I just don't care.

Cadiz

diego ribas wrote: »

I prefer shopping in Pennys were I'm guaranteed that some 8 year old girl has put her heart and soul in the making of my garments in some shoddy sweat shop.

I find it very satisfying.

While Penneys receives a great deal of focus for its alleged sweat shop associations, few other garment brands have glowing records in this regard, whether they are high end or low end.

Vinta81

minidazzler wrote: »

Ah, I heard they are hiring all sorts of heads in Gap to be honest, I wouldn't trust the staff at all myself.

'Scuse your cheek! I'm very trust worthy to be working in there!

minidazzler

Vinta81 wrote: »

'Scuse your cheek! I'm very trust worthy to be working in there!

Yeah right!!! I may be just bitter because they never got back to me about my application:(

eden_my_ass

minidazzler wrote: »

Well, insurance would be a helluva lot lower over there for a store.

But also, we irish are used to being ripped off, you can't blame H&M for jumping on the band wagon. It's unlikely I will be buying anything in there anyway so I just don't care.

So first you're claiming we're all ignorant of the ins and outs of retailing....and now you're claiming its actually cause of the Irish psyche....make up your mind. 10% might be a fair difference, even though I believe a government report said less...but 30% or more is abuse clear and simple!

minidazzler

eden_my_ass wrote: »

So first you're claiming we're all ignorant of the ins and outs of retailing....and now you're claiming its actually cause of the Irish psyche....make up your mind. 10% might be a fair difference, even though I believe a government report said less...but 30% or more is abuse clear and simple!

I never said ye were all ignorant to anything. I told the OP about hidden costs, that's it.

Cadiz

eden_my_ass wrote: »

So first you're claiming we're all ignorant of the ins and outs of retailing....and now you're claiming its actually cause of the Irish psyche....make up your mind. 10% might be a fair difference, even though I believe a government report said less...but 30% or more is abuse clear and simple!

Yeah Eden, 10% might be more like it, if even that. The whopping difference can't be justified by claiming there are higher costs here than in the UK or elsewhere. And these stores names don't really attempt to explain it, they just keep their heads down!

Tesco was able to reduce prices in Ireland across the board by up to 25% when it go the frighteners about how much business it was losing to the NI stores, which suggests it must have had a massive margin on goods in its Irish stores in the first place...

Flamed Diving

Good God...

Ireland and the UK are seperate countries. They can charge whatever they like in either nation, and are under no obligation to do otherwise. The following statement:

"I was in Thailand some years ago, and got a green curry for 80 baht (€2). I was shocked to find that a green curry cost as much as €15 in the Ruen Thai!!! I think we should stop eating there."

Is equally absurd.

eden_my_ass

minidazzler wrote: »

I never said ye were all ignorant to anything. I told the OP about hidden costs, that's it.

I am the OP, see the same nick, same user ??

You started listing (non hidden) standard business costs like we all heard over the years, but the Irish government did research in recent times and found that the costs were nowhere near justifying the differences we saw and continue to see in prices....

eden_my_ass

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Good God...

Ireland and the UK are seperate countries. They can charge whatever they like in either nation, and are under no obligation to do otherwise. The following statement:

"I was in Thailand some years ago, and got a green curry for 80 baht (€2). I was shocked to find that a green curry cost as much as €15 in the Ruen Thai!!! I think we should stop eating there."

Is equally absurd.

Good God....we're not all idiots, Ireland and the UK are not a million miles apart in economic terms, therefore there is no justification for the price difference I highlighted in H&M and no reason why we should accept it. I'm not looking for a pat on the back for spotting it, I believe its everyones duty to highlight these chancers and encourage others to do so in order that we all do our shopping, clothes, food or otherwise with full knowledge of what value we're getting for money!

Flamed Diving

eden_my_ass wrote: »

Good God....we're not all idiots, Ireland and the UK are not a million miles apart in economic terms, therefore there is no justification for the price difference I highlighted in H&M and no reason why we should accept it. I'm not looking for a pat on the back for spotting it, I believe its everyones duty to highlight these chancers and encourage others to do so in order that we all do our shopping, clothes, food or otherwise with full knowledge of what value we're getting for money!

There is no need for a justification. They could make a garment for €1 and sell it for €1m if they wish. Up to you whether you buy it or not. I don't what is dishonest about it. In fact, I don't think it is dishonest. Supply meets demand, not the other way around.*

*Except for oil and other bizarre goods.

Cadiz

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Good God...

Ireland and the UK are seperate countries. They can charge whatever they like in either nation, and are under no obligation to do otherwise. The following statement:

"I was in Thailand some years ago, and got a green curry for 80 baht (€2). I was shocked to find that a green curry cost as much as €15 in the Ruen Thai!!! I think we should stop eating there."

Is equally absurd.

Thailand's retail market is not comparable to Ireland's, whereas the UK's is closely comparable. So it isn't absurd to make comparisons between the two. If you're a consumer here it would be absurd not to in this climate.

Which is what consumer are doing, now that there is a recession. And so retailers are finding they can't 'charge whatever they like' anymore.

And retailers are finding they are, in fact, obliged to charge less (Tesco being the main example but more will follow) - if they want to still have customers, that is.

eden_my_ass

Flamed Diving wrote: »

There is no need for a justification. They could make a garment for €1 and sell it for €1m if they wish. Up to you whether you buy it or not. I don't what is dishonest about it. In fact, I don't think it is dishonest. Supply meets demand, not the other way around.*

*Except for oil and other bizarre goods.

Who said it was dishonest, I never used that term in the OP. Business is business, and yes supply meets demand so by raising the point that there is terrible value for money in Cork H&M I hope to reduce the demand for their supply....until the supply is priced down to encourage more demand. Thats how business works, simples

Flamed Diving

Cadiz wrote: »

Thailand's retail market is not comparable to Ireland's, whereas the UK's is closely comparable. So it isn't absurd to make comparisons between the two. If you're a consumer here it would be absurd not to in this climate.

Which is what consumer are doing, now that there is a recession. And so retailers are finding they can't 'charge whatever they like' anymore.

And retailers are finding they are, in fact, obliged to charge less (Tesco being the main example but more will follow) - if they want to still have customers, that is.

eden_my_ass

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Wow, talk about pot, kettle, black

Cadiz

Flamed Diving wrote: »

There is no need for a justification. They could make a garment for €1 and sell it for €1m if they wish. Up to you whether you buy it or not. I don't what is dishonest about it. In fact, I don't think it is dishonest. Supply meets demand, not the other way around.*

*Except for oil and other bizarre goods.

It is dishonest and in need of justification to equivocate about your margins differing by 30% in two comparable markets.

An unfettered supply and demand model is what has led us to where we are now (global banking and property market collapse etc.)

eden_my_ass

Btw, its even more interesting in respect of what H&M first stated when entering the Irish market...note this article is old but its still valid and from the horses mouth.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2004/10/03/story352134827.asp

Cadiz

Flamed Diving wrote: »

I think it's more that you don't understand the point. Take it slow, it'll dawn

Flamed Diving

eden_my_ass wrote: »

Who said it was dishonest, I never used that term in the OP. Business is business, and yes supply meets demand so by raising the point that there is terrible value for money in Cork H&M I hope to reduce the demand for their supply....until the supply is priced down to encourage more demand. Thats how business works, simples

In terms relative to the Irish economy, is it terrible value?

eden_my_ass

Flamed Diving wrote: »

In terms relative to the Irish economy, is it terrible value?

Ah, so your point is that if a tshirt costs approximately 1000 euros in every shop in Ireland, then each individual shop is offering good value for money...relatively speaking...and we should just pay 1000 euros for a tshirt and be happy with ourselves...try again...

Flamed Diving

Cadiz wrote: »

I think it's more that you don't understand the point. Take it slow, it'll dawn

I understand it perfectly, but its based on unsound reasoning. A shop opening in Cork needn't concern itself with prices in a neighbouring country.

Cadiz

Flamed Diving wrote: »

I understand it perfectly, but its based on unsound reasoning. A shop opening in Cork needn't concern itself with prices in a neighbouring country.

It's not based on unsound reasoning, it's just based on different reasoning from yours!

You're resorted to rudeness and dismissiveness twice now with two different posters on this thread, which doesn't reflect that well on the 'soundness' of your own reasoning..

But back on topic - yes, a shop in Cork does need to concern itself with prices in relevant neighbouring countries. This is the reality of retail, people shop everywhere now, thanks either to cheap flights or the internet. The massive migration to shop over the border demonstrates this too.

cee_jay

I was shopping in H&M in Spain over the summer - came back here and the tops I bought over there were exactly the same price as H&M in Limerick.
Cost of living in Spain is a lot lower than here, wages are lower etc.
It doesn't matter what they charge here in comparison to the UK - all that matters is the clothes are still bought by the Irish public.

Dankoozy

Vinta81 wrote: »

H&M is very disappointing anyways. "Gap" will be better!

as long as they sell 'fanny packs' in the sale

Flamed Diving

Cadiz wrote: »

It's not based on unsound reasoning, it's just based on different reasoning from yours!

You're resorted to rudeness and dismissiveness twice now with two different posters on this thread, which doesn't reflect that well on the 'soundness' of your own reasoning..

But back on topic - yes, a shop in Cork does need to concern itself with prices in relevant neighbouring countries. This is the reality of retail, people shop everywhere now, thanks either to cheap flights or the internet. The massive migration to shop over the border demonstrates this too.

It's not rudeness, it's just a different posting style from yours.

Well, if your model of physical retailing is correct, then H&M will be shut within months.

Let's wait and see.

Dankoozy

i havn't been in it but it would be nice to see it gone

Cork is becoming more like Exeter every day

Faith

I'm completely sick of people justifying the higher prices in Ireland by going on about mysterious hidden charges. Sure, there might be some differences in prices between Ireland and the UK - the VAT rate is much lower there, for example. But it does not completely account for the discrepancy. Ray Darcy was doing a bit of his show about this last week, focusing on Karen Millen. When they contacted KM to ask about the differences, the reply was "We're not willing to discuss our pricing system". In other words, you're being screwed and we're going to keep quietly doing it, because you take it. If it was all above board and justifiable, then I'm sure they would have had no problems discussing it.

I work in an independant shop which is lucky to not have been forced out of business by cheaper chains. When items come in with a UK pricing, we check the conversion rates and price them accordingly, so they cost the same in the UK and Ireland. If a small shop with low profit margins can afford to do that, why can't huge chains like H&M? It's ridiculous that shops have been getting away with this for so long.

eden_my_ass

cAr0l wrote: »

I was shopping in H&M in Spain over the summer - came back here and the tops I bought over there were exactly the same price as H&M in Limerick.
Cost of living in Spain is a lot lower than here, wages are lower etc.
It doesn't matter what they charge here in comparison to the UK - all that matters is the clothes are still bought by the Irish public.

Just did a quick check on the websites, the Irish site lists a Top 5 sellers, Ladies jackets...comparing price to the German online store (the ones I could match!) shows 79 in Germany against 99 here and 39 against 49. 25% more for living in Ireland, a tough price to pay

eden_my_ass

Flamed Diving wrote: »

It's not rudeness, it's just a different posting style from yours.

Well, if your model of physical retailing is correct, then H&M will be shut within months.

Let's wait and see.

Again you're confusing the store closing with the storing reducing its margins to more acceptable levels...and continuing to trade profitably. Which is perfectly possible as we've seen by the other UK based Irish retailers who've been forced to do the same.

But if you never speak up, you'll never be heard...or listened to.

Cadiz

Flamed Diving wrote: »

It's not rudeness, it's just a different posting style from yours.

Well, if your model of physical retailing is correct, then H&M will be shut within months.

Let's wait and see.

It's not my model of retailing, it's the international west European/North American/'developed' world model.

It's not a 'style' to tell another poster in a huge graphic that they are missing your point or dub their argument 'unsound' just because you don't agree with it. It's just rude! If you can't discuss something with reason instead of dismissiveness, why bother at all.

H&M won't be shut in a month because they'll adjust to the new commercial realities of the climate and reduce their prices or deep discount, like everyone else (here and afar! :rolleyes:)

Flamed Diving

eden_my_ass wrote: »

Again you're confusing the store closing with the storing reducing its margins to more acceptable levels.

No, I'm not. I'm simply addressing the taxi-driver analysis of economics which is drenched with pound vs euro arguments and the notion of fairness in markets, as if retailers should simply gift a low price to consumers, for no reason.

If you think that prices are too high, then you are right not to shop there. Yes, prices will drop, and then you will get the fair prices you seek.

eden_my_ass

Flamed Diving wrote: »

If you think that prices are too high, then you are right not to shop there. Yes, prices will drop, and then you will get the fair prices you seek.

Congratulations, you have arrived at my point. By highlighting the state of play and encouraging others not to shop there I am indeed hoping that prices will drop and we can support the store. Phew, that took a while didn't it??

baileyjackson

Gotta say, shopping in H&M in Warsaw.....and it was even more expensive then it is here!! Shocker, I know!! Were talking 1-5euro difference!!;D

eden_my_ass

baileyjackson wrote: »

Gotta say, shopping in H&M in Warsaw.....and it was even more expensive then it is here!! Shocker, I know!! Were talking 1-5euro difference!!;D

Poland has its own particular problem too, there are some ridiculous prices in high street retailers there considering the average wage....I'd recommend Reserved next time though, excellent value (<10 euro tshirts for example and not the plain designless ones) and better stuff than H&M!

baileyjackson

Totally agree with you.
Warsaw is great for shopping [Zloty Terasy!]
Int retailers there are incredibly expensive, im talking benneton, zara, bershka, h&m and pull & bear.
Reserved and a few other polish brands are ace! C&A good too!

corkhero

ah, a great topic