Who has the right of way?

manutd

Last week the local council came and put up 8 stops signs at a cross-road. Every vehicle must Stop now, but i was there this morow and there was a car coming to me and two others the other way. Nobody knew what to do. I think this is a mistake on the council's part.

What is the rule the car going stainght on has the right off way.

amacachi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-way_stop

Would've expected it to be in a low-traffic area, it's more a traffic-calming measure than anything else.

I believe it's "first come! first served!", you arrive, stop, look and if the junction is empty you just go! if there is someone else turning you wait!

That's the theory, but it only works if everyone stops before entering the junction.

edit: as above>

usually these junctions are unsigned!

amacachi

Judging from the models elsewhere in the world I'd guess you have to give way to traffic from the left and/or use common sense. Though it's meant to be whoever gets there first gets to leave first.

manutd

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe it's "first come! first served!", you arrive, stop, look and if the junction is empty you just go! if there is someone else turning you wait!

That's the theory, but it only works if everyone stops before entering the junction.

edit: as above>

usually these junctions are unsigned!

But this morrow, we arrive at the same time, i was going on striaght, one was turning left and the other two were going right. It is a Local road, with a lot of news houses up around it now, also a back back into town if you know your local roads so it is busy in the morning and evening rush.

corktina

same rules as a roundabout...you yield to traffic from your right (NOT left.....

dowlingm

We have these in Ontario but the rule is who gets to junction and stops first has right of way (subject to pedestrians who have primary right of way). I observed on moving here this would never work in .ie as it required politeness/regard for other road users.

cyclopath2001

dowlingm wrote: »

We have these in Ontario but the rule is who gets to junction and stops first has right of way (subject to pedestrians who have primary right of way). I observed on moving here this would never work in .ie as it required politeness/regard for other road users.

USA and South Africa have that concept at all-way stop junctions and their regulations describe specifically how priority is distributed in rotation according to the order in which each 'first' vehicle arrives at the junction.

Here, that's not a normal configuration, so I'd say traffic coming from right and also oncoming traffic (if you're turnng right) have priority.

Hotblack Desiato

Junction with roads of equal importance - give way to traffic approaching from your right. Everyone driving should know this... it's in the ROTR after all :pac:

That was one of the favourite things my driving instructor used to catch people, who thought they knew it all, out on on a pre-test

In Dublin at least, you're unlikely to find one outside of a housing estate these days, and even most of those have had Yield signs added to 2 sides. The one my driving instructor favoured went that way about 12 years ago. A T-junction near where I live had a Yield sign added to the vertical stroke of the T a couple of years ago, even though an unsigned T-junction isn't a junction of equal importance - the horizontal bar of the T has priority unless signed otherwise.

HonalD

manutd wrote: »

Last week the local council came and put up 8 stops signs at a cross-road. Every vehicle must Stop now, but i was there this morow and there was a car coming to me and two others the other way. Nobody knew what to do. I think this is a mistake on the council's part.

What is the rule the car going stainght on has the right off way.

Which County Council?

manutd

HonalD wrote: »

Which County Council?

Cavan

murphaph

You give way to traffic on your right. If everyone arrives at exactly the same moment at all four arms (highly unlikely) I think people just need to exercise common sense and nudge out. I believe however that traffic driving 'straight through' or turning left would have priority over traffic turning right (ie, across the paths of the other traffic).

manutd

Thanks for the help, would two stop signs and two yield not be better than all stop signs.

cyclopath2001

manutd wrote: »

Thanks for the help, would two stop signs and two yield not be better than all stop signs.

No, I think getting people to stop & think momentarily at a junction is a good idea.

manutd

manutd wrote: »

Thanks for the help, would two stop signs and two yield not be better than all stop signs.

No: because traffic at the yield sign would be waiting for the traffic at the stop sign to go!

The stop signs become superflourious but forces traffic to stop and go at the junction, traffic approaching yield signs must stop if there is traffic already there and let it through even if they got there first.

Capt'n Midnight

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

No, I think getting people to stop & think momentarily at a junction is a good idea.

Irish people don't stop religiously at stop signs. It's treated as a sort of YIELD

Having everyone stop can cause problems as they found in the US , when everyone stops and starts at the same time since they aren't sure who has right of way.

RadioCity

A four way stop seems bizarre.

Would a mini roundabout painted on the road not made a safer and more effective method of traffic calming? Then all vehicles approaching the junction would be in no doubt that they had to give way to traffic approaching from the right.

corktina

In Kanturk we have a mini roundabout....if you drive up to the line confidently,everyone else stops for you....quite a few people sit at the yield line and wait until everyone else has gone....you wouldnt think youd get total gridlock in a small town would you! Mind you it was MUCH worse before the RA was installed.

murphaph

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

No, I think getting people to stop & think momentarily at a junction is a good idea.

Eh? Should all junctions not have stop signs on all their arms in that case?

Nonsense of course, the 4 way stop is a stupid solution outside very rural and lightly trafficked roads. In a housing estate (as already mentioned) we have the mini-roundabout available for use which is a much more suitable solution!

Ireland has a silly over-reliance on the stop sign anyway and people end up treating it like a yield sign because of this, ie, we all know loads of junctions where visibility is excellent in all directions but they have erected stop signs anyway! In the UK and here in Germany stop signs are much rarer and are generally only installed where visibility is poor and a yield sign could be dangerous, therefore when a british or german driver encounters a stop sign they take it more seriously than a yield sign, unlike in Ireland.

HonalD

manutd wrote: »

Thanks for the help, would two stop signs and two yield not be better than all stop signs.

Crossroads in urban areas where the "main road" is clear to drivers are considered a good calming device if all approaching users can see all other approaching users.

I have never seen an "all-stop" in Ireland before! A picture would indicate if there is a particular reason for it.

Otherwise, it is general policy to get rid of crossroads for safety reasons, replacing them with other junction types i.e. staggered junctions.

cyclopath2001

murphaph wrote: »

Eh? Should all junctions not have stop signs on all their arms in that case?

No. But it would be better if drivers slowed down at junctions and didn't enter a road if to do so would case obstruction to other road users.

Capt'n Midnight

interesting link
http://www.jimloy.com/humor/fourway.htm

The four-way stop is a drivers' IQ test, that many drivers fail. It would seem to be a maneuver of approximately Blue-Angel caliber. But, it is really very simple, if you follow these few rules.

I recently almost saw a three way accident at a four-way stop. A car was the first of three cars at the intersection. The driver hesitated, and then went. And all three cars nearly collided. The hesitation sent the wrong signal; it said "go ahead" to the other drivers. A more forceful approach would probably have been less dangerous. Clearly any driver who goes (whether he/she actually has the right of way or not) must be prepared to stop. But so many drivers seem to be trying to divine the other drivers' thoughts, when they should just go in the order in which they arrived.

murphaph

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

No. But it would be better if drivers slowed down at junctions and didn't enter a road if to do so would case obstruction to other road users.

It is impractical to slow down at every junction and to do so would cause massive traffic problems if every driver decided to start doing it. We must accept, whether one likes it or not, than in a modern society there will be motor vehicles which travel at potentially fatal speeds. If we are not happy with this as a society then we must change our entire way of life I'm afraid.

Of course drivers should slow down on quietly trafficked rural roads and in housing estates etc. but it's impractical for drivers to be slowing down on distributor roads and the like.

As for entering a road when it would cause obstruction to other road users, that's spot on and would constitute careless, possibly dangerous driving. Of course, other road users often cause obstruction to motorists too but unfortunately it seems are immune from prosecution. If you caused an accident here as a pedestrian/cyclist you would be held liable and forced to pay for the damages, hence lots of non-motorists have a general insurance policy that covers them for such damages.

kiwipower

My understanding is that if there is four stops signs, or if there are four yeild/Give Way, or the traffic lights are out of order at a cross road you must Yeild to traffic crossing your path from the RIGHT. ie: If your are going straight through or turning left you must Yeild to traffic coming from the road to your RIGHT. If you are turning right you must Yeild to traffic coming from your RIGHT and traffic coming straight through from opposite you.First come first serve doesnt make sense. Imagine (not that its hard, bet you saw one yesterday!) a highly congested Irish intersection in the Rain, with traffic lights out. What are your going to do? Wind down the window and have a conversation with other drivers about who got there first????

murphaph

Funny, I once had to go to court as a witness for an accident where a 4 way signalised junction was out of order and a driver just assumed the priority reverted to the way it was before the signalisation occurred! The other driver coming from the right slammed his van into her and despite the fact that he was driving through an out of order signalised junction at at least 30mph he was legally in the right and the woman was found in the wrong.

People need to know the rules of the road.

cyclopath2001

murphaph wrote: »

People need to know the rules of the road.

The problem is not that people don't know them, it's that they decide they don't apply to themselves, just everybody else.

murphaph

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The problem is not that people don't know them, it's that they decide they don't apply to themselves, just everybody else.

I don't believe for one second that you think the general knowledge of the RotR is of a good standard. How many people know the legal minimum distances when parking their vehicle? (just as an example).

Hotblack Desiato

Or how to use lights effectively and legally, including foglights.
Or how to signal at a roundabout.
Or how to use a multi-lane road correctly. (clue: KEEP LEFT PASS RIGHT)
Or..

NewDubliner

ninja900 wrote: »

Or..

Know that the speed limits applies to them?

manutd

murphaph wrote: »

I don't believe for one second that you think the general knowledge of the RotR is of a good standard. How many people know the legal minimum distances when parking their vehicle? (just as an example).

No-body knows, a width of a car door.

Thanks for all the answers, there is now a mini-roundabout there now.

manutd

manutd wrote: »

No-body knows, a width of a car door.

Thanks for all the answers, there is now a mini-roundabout there now.

Good! common sense prevails!

Capt'n Midnight

murphaph wrote: »

I don't believe for one second that you think the general knowledge of the RotR is of a good standard. How many people know the legal minimum distances when parking their vehicle? (just as an example).

It used to be within 18 inches, now it's gone up to half a meter !

But the one no one seems to know is the 5m / 15m from a corner,
and if the corner is a gentle curve do you measure from the start of the corner or the end :P

Hotblack Desiato

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It used to be within 18 inches, now it's gone up to half a meter !

Oh noes!1!!!!

That reminds me of the people who complained about when the speed limits went metric. There were actually a few people complaining that 50km/h = 31mph and the extra 1mph was going to result in widespread carnage :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

How many people know the legal minimum distances when parking their vehicle? (just as an example).

I`d be prepared to wager,Murphaph,that these beings you speak of are mostly of Germanic stock......;)

Victor

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