Loan between friends

cashville

Hi folks,

A female friend of mine loaned some money to a 'friend' of hers a couple of years ago. The girl (girl X)who gave the money was away travelling, and while away she transferred to money to the other girl's account (girl Y). It is now clear Y has no intention of paying the money back.
I presume they have not entered into any contract here as X has just given the money to Y. X does have a bank statement showing the transfer of the €3,500 to Y's account.

Does Y have any legal obligation to pay the money back? Is there any legal action X can talk at all? We were discussing sending a made-up solicitor's letter to Y asking for the money back or legal action would be taken. Is that legal? (assuming we use a made-up solicitor)

Any advice here would be appreciated.

Regards,
Cashville

Jo King

Legal advice is not allowed on this forum, but I can say that holding yourself out to be a solicitor, if you are not, a solicitor is a criminal offence. It is also an offence to seek repayment of monies owed by falsely representing that they issue in some official capacity.
You friend can of course send a registered letter written by herself setting out the circumstances of the transfer of the money and stating that if it is not repaid legal action will ensue.

cashville

Jo King wrote: »

Legal advice is not allowed on this forum, but I can say that holding yourself out to be a solicitor, if you are not, a solicitor is a criminal offence. It is also an offence to seek repayment of monies owed by falsely representing that they issue in some official capacity.
You friend can of course send a registered letter written by herself setting out the circumstances of the transfer of the money and stating that if it is not repaid legal action will ensue.

Thanks for your reply.

Regards,
Cashville

cashville

Mods - Apologies if this post breaks the forum charter as it looks for advice, feel free to lock.

dats_right

cashville wrote: »

Hi folks,

We were discussing sending a made-up solicitor's letter to Y asking for the money back or legal action would be taken. Is that legal? (assuming we use a made-up solicitor)

What age are you? This is a very childish plan. Not only that, but it is a criminal offence for: A person who is not a solicitor to pretend to be a solicitor or take or use any name, title, addition or description or make any representation or demand implying that he/she is a, solicitor.

Why don't you contact a real solicitor to discuss your options.

cashville

dats_right wrote: »

What age are you? This is a very childish plan. Not only that, but it is a criminal offence for: A person who is not a solicitor to pretend to be a solicitor or take or use any name, title, addition or description or make any representation or demand implying that he/she is a, solicitor.

Why don't you contact a real solicitor to discuss your options.

Thanks for the information.

Reloc8

There's no difficulty with the fact that there is no contract in writing. A loan is a loan and enforceable at the instance of the person who loaned the cash. Probably proof of the money being paid to the borrower is far more important in the context of a loan between friends/associates.

Pretending to be a solicitor is indeed unlawful in itself (rather brilliantly it can lead to you being disqualified as eh a solicitor), and attempting to recover money in this way (making threats of legal action which cannot be taken - e.g. 'I am a solicitor and my office will issue proceedings against you') is a specific criminal offence.

seamus

It's also worth noting that solicitor's letters have no more authority than a letter from the plaintiff except that they notify the defendant that the other party has consulted a solicitor. A solicitor's letter does not oblige the recipient to take any action.

For that amount of money, actually speaking to a solicitor would be worth your while. Better to get back €3,500 and give €1k to a solicitor than get nothing back at all.

jeckle

This might sound like a silly question, but has she asked for her money back, or enquired as to when she can expect to get it, or when payments will start?

I'm not suggesting that the borrower has forgotten about the debt, but sometimes, just sometimes, a gentle reminder might start the ball rolling.

JohnK

Coler wrote: »

There's no difficulty with the fact that there is no contract in writing. A loan is a loan and enforceable at the instance of the person who loaned the cash. Probably proof of the money being paid to the borrower is far more important in the context of a loan between friends/associates.

Unless I missed something theres no actual proof it was a loan in the first place so could the recipient, Girl Y, not just say it was a gift of some sort and as such should not need to be repaid?

Reloc8

Point taken John - if she's willing to lie about it she could get in the box and take her chances.

In a general way though the tolerance of a judge hearing such a defence is going to be extremely low in the absence of a very good basis in the relationship for a gift of that nature or proof that it was a gift. There is in fact a weakish common law presumption that money given from one person to another in most relationships is a loan, i.e. the recipient on being challenged must establish that it was a gift.

Once proof of the money passing over is established my money is very certainly on the lender to recover in the absence of good proof of gift status.

cashville

jeckle wrote: »

This might sound like a silly question, but has she asked for her money back, or enquired as to when she can expect to get it, or when payments will start?

I'm not suggesting that the borrower has forgotten about the debt, but sometimes, just sometimes, a gentle reminder might start the ball rolling.

Hi Jeckle,

Thanks for your time. Yes, she has asked for her money back but has been told she won't be getting it. I realise now that the idea of sending the letter was probably a silly idea, but it's desperation. The money is really needed, sure it might seem obvious to go to a solicitor but we really didn't know if that was an option, and also definitely can't afford to hire one unless the money is retrieved.

cashville

JohnK wrote: »

Unless I missed something theres no actual proof it was a loan in the first place so could the recipient, Girl Y, not just say it was a gift of some sort and as such should not need to be repaid?

Hi,
The girl who gave the money has a copy of her bank statement showing the transfer of moneys to the recipient's account. Does this count?

Reloc8

A bank statement showing the transfer of funds is evidence of the money having changed hands.

A person in your mate's position should go and talk to a solicitor about what happened, bringing the documents, and ask when making the appointment whether there will be a charge for an initial consultation. As has been pointed out, if the 3.5k was recovered or some portion thereof, and some money had to be paid to do that, that would be worth it.

Lots of people are big and bold about not repaying the money they owe until they realise they will end up in court.