Will this work, and if not, why not

uprising

Hello I'm looking for an honest opinion on whether this will work or not, and if you feel it won't work can you please specify exactly why.

Ok here's a pollution free, self powered, no noise, free electricity device.
The parts needed, 1 12v alternator, 1 12v Battery(buffer), 1 Inverter, now connect the alternator to the battery, then connect the battery to the inverter, now if we can find something to spin the alternator at sufficient speed we can get 230v/5000w of electricity.
The next step is to make a motor to spin the alternator, traditionally petrol or diesel engines are used to do this, which cause pollution, use fuel and are noisey.
My motor is made from these magnets, an inner spinning core (pivot joint) and an outer fixed core with the magnets fixed at 45 degree's or similar to each other on the inner and outer core, obviously the outer core will contain more magnets than the inner core, whatever works best and gives best performance. The magnets are set with positive of the inner core facing positive of the outer core in a circular configeration, which will spin the inner core with enough energy to spin the alternator and produce 230v/5000w of electricity from the inverter.
This is only the basic structure, and the opposing magnetic force from these very strong magnets could spin more than 1 alternator, anyway there's the basic's, now get designing and send your appliction's here http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/provapp.htm.
I think the fee is $200 or there abouts.

Here's an animated gif, the blue is magnetic shielding, so as one magnet approaches another, there will be no magnetic force replusing it, then as the shields pass, on altering magnet's full pushing force will be active at that precise moment. The magnetic shielding would extend 5mm or so past the magnet to help in directing the magnetic field.

The magnets on the outer core are slightly out of place, and the blue tip of the magnetic shield should be at 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 of the clock, but you get the idea, inner blue tip's of the magnetic shielding should be at N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW.
Edit: I have altered the images. The white line's in the gif are nothing to worry about, simply there for alignment, and I'm too lazy to remove them.





Commander, please look at the images in my preceeding post, with the shielding set as it is do you still think it will not spin with force?, the shielding will neutralize(to an extent) the magnetic fields you brought up earlier, actually the closer a magnet get's to one that would have had the effect you stated, the smaller the gap in the shielding until it passes this point, at which time there are other magnet propelling the opposing magnet's along.
Remember these magnet's can hold 100kg weight, so I assume it would take 200kg of pressure to put 2 of these magnets positive/face to positive/face.
In the image there are 20 magnets,12 outer, 8 inner with a total holding capacity of 2000kg/ 2 Ton.

5uspect

So let me get this straight.

Once the magnetic "turbine" is spun up to speed you think it will continue to power the alternator?

What you have there is a classic perpetual motion machine. What's called a Permanent Magnet Motor and it's nothing new. It's not far off the nonsense Steorn have claimed. The internet is full of similar devices for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ0V3A6CsoE&feature=player_embedded#

For this device to work it has to violate the second law of thermodynamics, one of the most fundamental law of science.
As a result such devices cannot be patented, by law.

In short the second law basically says you will always get less out than you put in. It's a simple inequality. Your device, and the one in the video I linked to, gives more energy out than you put in.

If this were the case you can use one of these machines to power another of these machines and another approaching an infinite amount of energy.
You wouldn't have to bother with fancy neodymium or rare earth magnets at all. Any magnet would do and you can just amplify the effect through a huge number of machines.
This would win you a million Nobel prizes.:rolleyes:

The reason it won't work is the same reason all perpetual motion machines fail. The device will simply find an equilibrium between the repulsive forces of the magnets, the friction of the entire system, the peaks and troughs of the magnetic field and imperfect barrier material. The device may come to a halt at a different rate as you affect the action of some of the forces but you won't extract any free work from it.

People assume magnets contain some sort of infinite free energy that is either suppressed by big oil companies or only they understand how to unlock.

I suggest you read this for a more detailed explanation.
http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magfree.htm

in particular this:
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/cheng2.htm


In an interesting aside a colleague of mine working on energy harvesting technologies used vibrating neodymium magnets to educe an electric current in copper coils. I think he generated a few micro volts, which was significantly better than most of the commercial versions available.

Of course the mechanical vibrations required significantly more power to generate. The application of this was to produce small amounts of power for wireless sensors.

Valmont

Did something just fly over my head? I think so but I do know about the 2nd law of thermodynamics so I was onto that from the start. Either way, it's interesting stuff.

5uspect

Valmont wrote: »

Either way, it's interesting stuff.

Not particularity. Its a common mistake people with little understanding of engineering and science make. It also shows remarkable arrogance to assume that such a simple device would have been overlooked, or even suppressed.

The use of magnets instead of something like springs or buoyancy is just the latest craze in perpetual motion since neodymium magnets have become more available and cheaper.

If you can get hold of a couple of them, and I would recommend you do, they're shockingly strong. Dangerously so as you could easily lose a finger!

EDIT: Just to provide as much information as possible to demonstrate the point have a read of this article about the Gauss gun.
The Gauss gun is a nifty device that uses magnets to accelerate a projectile.
The article describes it quite clearly and also such a device cannot be used in a circle.

Valmont

5uspect wrote: »

Not particularity.

Well I know a good deal about science but not engineering and I find it interesting so there you have it. I know such a machine could never be built (2nd law of thermodynamics) but I still find it interesting looking at the machines people put together to try and find a way around it.

5uspect

I guess I'm a bit tired of it.

uprising

5uspect wrote: »

People assume magnets contain some sort of infinite free energy that is either suppressed by big oil companies or only they understand how to unlock.

I suggest you read this for a more detailed explanation.
http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magfree.htm


.

5uspect wrote: »

Not particularity. Its a common mistake people with little understanding of engineering and science make. It also shows remarkable arrogance to assume that such a simple device would have been overlooked, or even suppressed.

5uspect wrote: »

I guess I'm a bit tired of it.

I guess you are,
"I suggest you read this for a more detailed explanation.
http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magfree.htm"
when I clicked this, scrolled to the end and read
"NEVER PAY FOR ELECTRICITY AGAIN"
I suggest you read what you are asking me to, I click it and this video is on the page.
Isn't it ironic

Some text from the page,

A Long Kept Secret For Generating Free Electricity is Finally On The Open, And You'll Never Have To Pay A Single Dime to the Power Company

How would you like to create a generator which creates free electric energy? Using our easy-to-follow guide, you will be able create a Magnetic Power Generator which creates absolutely free energy, and doesn't require any resource like wind or solar energy to function, the magniwork generator creates energy by itself and powers your home for free. The generator works fully off the grid, take a look at the following diagram to get an idea of how it works:

Then a little bit further down this video...........again a direct link from the enlightening site to "educate" me.....

Maybe.....

Where do you get your expertise?, and what is it exactly?, what I mean is does your expertise in this field come from your college book or from actually getting your hands dirty in a similar field and actually trying things, trial and error?..

5uspect

erm, that just an ad. I had to disable my adblocker to see it.
You will find all kind of inappropriate ad across the internet.
Really if want me to believe you can't spot the difference you're just trolling.

You came here asking if your device works. I gave you an honest answer based on my professional knowledge.
You seem however to have already made your mind up.

Where do you get your expertise?, and what is it exactly?, what I mean is does your expertise in this field come from your college book or from actually getting your hands dirty in a similar field and actually trying things, trial and error?..

I have a 1st class honours Degree in Aeronautical Engineering.
I have a PhD in Fluid Mechanics, in particular entropy generation in transitional flows.
I have published journal papers in this field based on extensive experimentation performed by myself.

I have extensive experience as a CNC machinist including micro-machining where I have developed prototypes for the biomedical and electronics cooling applications.
I have trained several students and even our own technicians on how to use this equipment. I grew up working in my fathers garage where I got my hands dirty on a daily basis.

I had a colleague who works on energy harvesting, as I've already stated, using magnets. We shared an office and much mirth was had at the expense of Steorn while we discussed the science behind magnetism. This colleague has a PhD in Theoretical Physics, is published in Nature and Physical Review Letters.

Your turn.

440Hz

Ok, that is enough of that I think.