Cabling a new house for broadband,tv,sound,etc

amcdaniel

Hi folks,

I'm renovating/extending a house and want to fit cabling for tv/broadband/sound.
I know cat5/6 can be used for internet but thats it. I saw a solution at the selfbuild show that was using cat5 for everything back to some rather cheap looking patch panels and was charging a high price for the pleasure.

If someone could give a list of cable and connector types and recommend the required patch panels for setting up a single point for all rooms to have tv/internet/sound that would be fantastic
Many thanks for any help offered
mc d

FusionNet

Cat5 but idealy Cat6 CAN be used for everything. It can run audio, video, data, security, TV you name it. I use Panduit myself as they are one of the best in the world and Ive found most you get in high street stores like Excel, legrand etc are rubbish. Once you have a decent structured cabling network installed then back at your comms cabinet you will need different kit. For example for broadband you'll need a DSL router and maybe a sweet, for voice a PBX, for security a DVR for TV a media server. Then you patch the required equipment into the required ports in the different rooms.

There is very little that cant be run over structured cabling. Dont use rubbish kit and if you know nothing about cabling at least get someone in to give you advice who knows what their talking about..

thegen

amcdaniel wrote: »

Hi folks,

I'm renovating/extending a house and want to fit cabling for tv/broadband/sound.
I know cat5/6 can be used for internet but thats it. I saw a solution at the selfbuild show that was using cat5 for everything back to some rather cheap looking patch panels and was charging a high price for the pleasure.

If someone could give a list of cable and connector types and recommend the required patch panels for setting up a single point for all rooms to have tv/internet/sound that would be fantastic
Many thanks for any help offered
mc d

Run Cat 5e or Cat 6 for all your comms. For sound run speaker cable and good quality too. You can run Broadband, Voice and Video applications over a properly installed structured cabling solution. For audio you will require a good cable for clarity of sound. You can put together a nice package over a period of time ranging from a Russsound audio system to a Nexus or some other TV over Cat 5e or Cat 6 system

Cat 5e will run 1gb so Cat 6 may be overkill. PM me if you need any specific advice. I did my own house 2yrs ago.

amcdaniel

Hi lads, thanks for the replies.
So if I run good quality speaker cable is it one run/cable per speaker from the central point yes? Whats good sound cable - how do you distinguish it from bad??
And then one run per connection point of CAT 5/6 for broadband, and then one per tv and one per phone connection point.
I've being told that CAT6 can be very tempremental if termination etc are not absolutely perfect.
I will still need a freeview or skybox at the end of the tv connections though right...
From a surround sound perspective I guess that those cables come out from where the amp will be next to the tv, not from the central point all the other cables come from??
Anyone have thoughts on room by room music, what control systems would you recommend, can you have different music played in different rooms? Can I have an AUX point in each room that say someone can plug an iPod into to play their own playlists in that room??
Many thanks for the help so far
mc d

FusionNet

/i just want to clear up one point here as many people read these posts and are in the same situation as you. CAT5e will probably not run 1GB, only if installed perfect and terminated with high quality modules and patch cords etc you can in theory get a GB out of it but thats its max. If you want to future proof and you want to stream High Def as in todays high def, remember cabling is a 10-15 year install high def in ten years will be much bigger through put, so on that bases as a structured cabling installer Id recommend running CAT6. Yes its a little more of a cranky Bee to install but to be honest from your questions Id be worried about your knowledge on all this. Do you have a friend that can help you out? Designing a good future proof entertainment and cabling structure is not easy.. Ive run 16MP High Definition CCTV over CAT6 and it handled it no bother, the CAT5e struggled, 16MP cameras only require 80mb per second real through put...

thegen

FusionNet wrote: »

/i just want to clear up one point here as many people read these posts and are in the same situation as you. CAT5e will probably not run 1GB, only if installed perfect and terminated with high quality modules and patch cords etc you can in theory get a GB out of it but thats its max. If you want to future proof and you want to stream High Def as in todays high def, remember cabling is a 10-15 year install high def in ten years will be much bigger through put, so on that bases as a structured cabling installer Id recommend running CAT6. Yes its a little more of a cranky Bee to install but to be honest from your questions Id be worried about your knowledge on all this. Do you have a friend that can help you out? Designing a good future proof entertainment and cabling structure is not easy.. Ive run 16MP High Definition CCTV over CAT6 and it handled it no bother, the CAT5e struggled, 16MP cameras only require 80mb per second real through put...

Sorry Fusion but as the standards state Cat 5e will run 1gb. Fact. Cat 6 in itself will bring its own problems distributing Video as you may encounter delay skew wit hthe signal on it. It all depends on the TV distribution system you are installing.

I have worked in the industry at a senior level for over twenty years an only the Taiwanese cheap product will fail Cat 5e. I have also witnessed some so called Structured Cabling experts terminate it totally wrong where some very good electricians with a little training deliver a superb solution. OP as before I am more than willing to talk via PM if you would like.

Dardania

Cat 5E / Cat 6 are equally good for home needs just be aware that Cat 6 is more difficult to wire / less flexible than Cat 5e at installation stage, but is more future proofed.

Once you have your passive wiring sorted, maybe look at DLNA equipment to run vide / audio etc. over the cabling:

http://www.dlna.org/digital_living/devices/

&

http://www.dlna.org/products/

FusionNet

Im well aware of the standards but as you well know it doesnt matter a ****e what the standards say they are only of any use if you certify.. My point was for future proofing CAT6 is the way to go, but if your telling me laying CAT5e now is a good idea for a ten year install do let me know then reason.. Unlike commercial, you cant just reire a house like you can a business. Ya sure CAT6 has a lot of pit falls but as a future proof situation its your only man.

Also its important to note that you can use amazing modules and terrible cable and you will fall down. As Ive said before a good network is only as good as its weakest link. Im at this game nearly 15 years myself, I love laying cable and ya Ive seen so called "cable engineers" lay it bad Ive probably seen more electricians lay it bad. At the end of the day the only good cable engineers are the guys that love it. I love the struactured cabling system, I think its the most amazing piece of tech one can have.

Anyways I would like to know your opinion on CAT5e and its potential remaining life. On this forum we've always advised one or the other but we've never debated the end of Cat5e which is mad as its been around a long long time..

Id personally spend the money and go Cat6, I dont think there will be an issue with delay skew if its terminated correctly with high quality kit

Also just to note Cheaper kit has a higher fail rate, also a lot of cheaper kit cant be used for rj11, worth noting...

thegen

FusionNet wrote: »

Im well aware of the standards but as you well know it doesnt matter a ****e what the standards say they are only of any use if you certify.. My point was for future proofing CAT6 is the way to go, but if your telling me laying CAT5e now is a good idea for a ten year install do let me know then reason.. Unlike commercial, you cant just reire a house like you can a business. Ya sure CAT6 has a lot of pit falls but as a future proof situation its your only man.

Also its important to note that you can use amazing modules and terrible cable and you will fall down. As Ive said before a good network is only as good as its weakest link. Im at this game nearly 15 years myself, I love laying cable and ya Ive seen so called "cable engineers" lay it bad Ive probably seen more electricians lay it bad. At the end of the day the only good cable engineers are the guys that love it. I love the struactured cabling system, I think its the most amazing piece of tech one can have.

Anyways I would like to know your opinion on CAT5e and its potential remaining life. On this forum we've always advised one or the other but we've never debated the end of Cat5e which is mad as its been around a long long time..

Id personally spend the money and go Cat6, I dont think there will be an issue with delay skew if its terminated correctly with high quality kit

Also just to note Cheaper kit has a higher fail rate, also a lot of cheaper kit cant be used for rj11, worth noting...

I agree on the cheaper kit. Dont use it. When I talk about Cat 5e I mean ADCKrone or Systimax. I would at a push use Brand Rex or AMP. If I had to I would consider Hubbell, Panduit or Ortronics.

Cat 5e as a solution is superb, it can and will handle 1gb easily if you use a premier brand. There is nothing out there bar 10gb that it will not handle. If I was recommending any thing other than it I would have to say go 10gb cabling. I have been involved in the design of some of Irelands largest installs and when budgets were tight we would run with 10gb in the the backbone and Cat 5e in the horizontal.

There is a lot of life left in Cat 5e I would not rite it off yet. We couldalso get into the debate of UTP v FTP but thats another story

FusionNet

haha I think the UTP and FTP all depends on where you worked and who was the client..!! I know of companies who as a rule regardless what anyone else said they always went FTP.

I used to like krone but it was silly money, no that doesnt matter for big corporate like ericsson or google but but SME's its over kill. Personally I would never use Hubbel, think there stuff is nasty, systimax is a closed shop so never really got to play around with them. I use Panduit, their high end product though not the basic range. I think there networking modules and panels are some of the best Ive ever terminated. Really fast, can be terminated ten times and still certifiable and they are verry well priced. I think the new Microsoft build in Dublin is being done in Panduit?

As for life left in Cat5e, ya I agree its a great cable but I dont think there is ten years left in it? With demand for media and bandwidth going nearly out of control I just dont think Cat5 will be up to streaming a lot of HD etc without issues.

I guess its a catch 22. Cat5e has more head room for error but cant handle massive data throughput, but Cat6 has much less tolerence for error but if its done right it'll do 1gb plus without breaking a sweat..

Regardless of either it all depends on the guy at the end of the cable, I guess one of my intial points was, because the cat5/cat6 debate always hapens is that it doesnt matter what spec you use, you have to use good kit and be good at cabling to make a network like this really work..

Dardania

Interesting article about bandwidth: http://blog.radvision.com/videooverenterprise/2008/06/24/high-definition-is-next-do-you-know-how-much-bandwidth-you-have/ it looks like 6mbps is high quality 1080p - you can fit alot of that into a 100mbps channel, and a lot more in a 1 gig channel! I'm all for future proofing, but if it's at the expense of ease of installation and perecived quality when the faceplate's on - is it worth it?

Getting back to the OP's request:

Utility Providers:
Who do you have in your house, and who is available to you? This has a big impact on what you will be distributing. Most people have an eircom landline for voice/internet needs, then use either UPC, Sky or free to air terrestrial satellite or antenna for TV needs. Some people get their internet through UPC, or by using a fixed wireless provider such as digiweb or ice.
If you could give more info here on what you have, what you reckon is avialble to you, and what you will use it would be a big help in advising you on cabling.


Passive Voice/Data Cabling:
Cat5e cable from a quality manufacturer, with quality manufactured components (face plates, terminations, patch panels) or Cat 6 if your installer knows their business (I know 1 guy from this thread I could recommend!) It's important to plan your cable routes and your central hub position, to minimise as much as possible crossovers between data cabling and mains electricity, and absolutely no parallel runs with mains - minimum separation should be 100mm - 150mm.
I'd advise terminating a Cat 5e/ point at all your tv positions, possible phone psoitions, desk positions etc. CCTV positions maybe?
Active end - I would presume your broadband provider has given you a modem with an ethernet switch?

TV
Based on whether you will be using UPC, Sky or free to air satellite or terrestrial antenna, there are different cabling requirements for TV. As a basic provision, you should pull a CT100 type coax cable to each TV point from a central location. It's important that this coax cable is well screened otherwise switching on fans, washing machines etc. will cause flickers on a TV.
In the event that you want Sky TV, it's best to pull 2 no. coax cables to each TV point, as Sky+ / HD requires two feeds (stupid I know but it's basically because part of the tuner is in the satellite dish LNB)
Then from the central location you should pull a single coax to the UPC termination position (maybe under the eave?) or in the event of Sky, at least 4 coaxs to the roof position.
If you are using UPC, this company:
http://www.in-home-network.co.uk/splitters--isolators-16-c.asp
manufacture a lot of UPC's kit so it would be good to get a splitter from them.

Wi-Fi
Have you considered it or do you already have it? Now may be the time to put a good wi-fi router ina central location in the house.

Audio
Not my area of knowledge although I know: http://www.russound.com/ have a good enough name in the business, and MODE also. I would look out for products that support DLNA over Ethernet / Wi-Fi as it will become more & more prominent in future...