Roughing the Passer

Ceartgoleor · 09-10-2009 4:52pm #1

In light of the attention its getting stateside this week after the incidents involving Terrell Suggs and Haloti Ngata's penalties last week for roughing the passer, whats the feeling on this issue?

Vic Carucci wrote on NFL.com this week his opinion that elite level QB's (Manning, Brady etc) are given greater protection than lesser QB's, a view that seems to be getting the support of the NFL players who have spoken out on it so far, and, not shockingly, the Ravens' coach John Harbaugh.

de5p0i1er · 09-10-2009 5:38pm

I understand the need to protect a QB after seeing Brady miss last season but at the same time we've all heard the just let them play arguement aswell.
They were talking about it on NFL Gameday and they said that If a QB goes out the team is in alot of trouble and they loose the marque value of the player so revinue falls. Players will adept to the new rules as they always have, I'm still undecided on weather this is a good rule or not. Time will tell.

Ceartgoleor · 09-10-2009 5:53pm

I think in general the Brady Rule as it is called is not a bad idea, QB's are always going to be prone when they throw so hitting them below the knees in that situation to me is unacceptable and should be prohibited, but the real question here, and what I was really getting at (maybe not successfully) in the first post, is this theory that the league is giving certain marquee players protection from roughing the passer calls that Joe Flacco didn't get last weekend, or the likes of Kyle Boller, Shaun Hill or Trent Edwards could hope to get

Hazys · 09-10-2009 6:01pm

Ceartgoleor wrote: »

In light of the attention its getting stateside this week after the incidents involving Terrell Suggs and Haloti Ngata's penalties last week for roughing the passer, whats the feeling on this issue?

Vic Carucci wrote on NFL.com this week his opinion that elite level QB's (Manning, Brady etc) are given greater protection than lesser QB's, a view that seems to be getting the support of the NFL players who have spoken out on it so far, and, not shockingly, the Ravens' coach John Harbaugh.

I disagree about the part where lesser QBs get lesser protection and also disagree with the Ravens whinging because they lost. They knew the rules like everybody else going into that game, but they complained like they were picked on and that the Patriots were getting a free ride, it sounds more like sour grapes to me than an actual gripe at the rules whether you agree with them or not.

Mike Wright got a 15 roughing the passer penalty at for taping a 'lesser' QB Flaccos face mask in the exact same game and fined $5,000 which was ridiculous. So 2 penalties against the Ravens and 1 against the Patriots. The Patriots had a question call against Wilfork in the 1st game of the season which was a major call but you dont see them whinging about.

D3PO · 09-10-2009 6:02pm

i think the rule itself is fine i do think they are going over the top a bit on it though.

TheHeadhunter · 10-10-2009 1:42am

The calls on sunday were pure bull**** and ray lewis was spot on to call them on it.

It was typical of the officials to protect Tom Brady and the NFL Darlings that are the patriots it makes my blood boil! And to see brady jumping around pumping his fist when he hadnt been touched was disgraceful.

Rodney Harrison was right he needs to take off his skirt and pull on some trousers. Look at Phillip Rivers against the raiders he felt gerrard warren was going for his knees at one point but he didnt turn looking for the penalty he told warren waht he thought of him because he is not a bitch like tom brady.

You should rename this thread "Roughing the brady".

tallaghtoutlaws · 10-10-2009 1:47am

TheHeadhunter wrote: »

The calls on sunday were pure bull**** and ray lewis was spot on to call them on it.

It was typical of the officials to protect Tom Brady and the NFL Darlings that are the patriots it makes my blood boil! And to see brady jumping around pumping his fist when he hadnt been touched was disgraceful.

Rodney Harrison was right he needs to take off his skirt and pull on some trousers. Look at Phillip Rivers against the raiders he felt gerrard warren was going for his knees at one point but he didnt turn looking for the penalty he told warren waht he thought of him because he is not a bitch like tom brady.

You should rename this thread "Roughing the brady".

:rolleyes: good man beautiful post.

Peyton Manning · 10-10-2009 1:58am

TheHeadhunter wrote: »

The calls on sunday were pure bull**** and ray lewis was spot on to call them on it.

It was typical of the officials to protect Tom Brady and the NFL Darlings that are the patriots it makes my blood boil! And to see brady jumping around pumping his fist when he hadnt been touched was disgraceful.

Rodney Harrison was right he needs to take off his skirt and pull on some trousers. Look at Phillip Rivers against the raiders he felt gerrard warren was going for his knees at one point but he didnt turn looking for the penalty he told warren waht he thought of him because he is not a bitch like tom brady.

You should rename this thread "Roughing the brady".

Like lemons much?

Karlusss · 10-10-2009 2:44am

Here...

Tom Brady is not calling the penalties. It's not his fault, like. He doesn't actually wear a skirt. Obviously someone in charge of revenue streams somewhere feels like Brady's knees should stay intact, and it's not like he's going to refuse free yards. But he's not actually calling the penalties himself.

This season has been a touch soft alright, though some people will bemoan any roughing the passer penalty just because they like watching quarterbacks get roughed up.

Karlusss · 10-10-2009 2:45am

TheHeadhunter wrote: »

Look at Phillip Rivers against the raiders he felt gerrard warren was going for his knees at one point but he didnt turn looking for the penalty he told warren waht he thought of him because he is not a bitch like tom brady.

Yeah, all roughing penalties should be decided by fights between the quarterback and the D-lineman in question. Who needs officials.

eagle eye · 10-10-2009 2:55am

Karlusss wrote: »

Here...

Tom Brady is not calling the penalties. It's not his fault, like. He doesn't actually wear a skirt. Obviously someone in charge of revenue streams somewhere feels like Brady's knees should stay intact, and it's not like he's going to refuse free yards. But he's not actually calling the penalties himself.

This season has been a touch soft alright, though some people will bemoan any roughing the passer penalty just because they like watching quarterbacks get roughed up.

The fact of the matter is that Tom Brady luckily got his leg out of the way because there was serious intent to injure from Suggs. And of course Brady was pissed that it happened and also as a competitor he wanted the call to keep the drive alive. Nothing wrong with any of what Tom Brady did.
Imo it was still a penalty anyways, he almost missed him but there was intent and he did make contact with his head going down and his arms coming out.

kryogen · 10-10-2009 3:07am

the patriots are the team getting all the calls this year?? cool!! should be a good year for me so!!

thought it was gonna be the cowboys again? or maybe the colts were due a few? or was it the steelers? hmmmmm.........

the rules are the same for everyone, as has been pointed out, there was 2 calls against the ravens, 1 against the pats, its hardly overwhelming favouritism now is it!!

nobody likes a team that whines after the game, just get on with it and next time dont give the official a reason to flag you!!

To answer the OP, i doubt the bigger name qb's are being protected more then the lesser names tbh. teams are obviously going to try hit Brady, and if they do it illegally they should be called on it! I would argue that because of the status of a Brady or Manning that players will try to really hit them harder and more often then they will with some of the other QB's for obvious reasons

heyjude · 10-10-2009 2:56pm

eagle eye wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that Tom Brady luckily got his leg out of the way because there was serious intent to injure from Suggs. And of course Brady was pissed that it happened and also as a competitor he wanted the call to keep the drive alive. Nothing wrong with any of what Tom Brady did.
Imo it was still a penalty anyways, he almost missed him but there was intent and he did make contact with his head going down and his arms coming out.

I suppose the problem is that fan expect to see players penalised for illegal things that they actually do, but when the officials stray into the area of 'what a player intended to do', then you've opened up a real can of worms. I would imagine that in most punting situations, the guys trying to block the punt would ideally love to catch the ball just as the punter kicks it, so that they can legally level the punter, get the ball and hopefully shake up the punter for the rest of the game, so if intent is now within the referees discretion, then could most attempted punt blocks not also be penalised ? What about if I intended to catch the ball but didn't ? or intended to get my feet down inbounds but didn't ? Up to now AKAIK if a DE dived at the QBs legs and missed, then it wasn't a penalty, have the rules now changed on that ?

As we're discussing the way rules are interpreted, I would also question the interpretation of the excessive celebration rule(or whatever they call it), it seems that the officials give much more latitude to some teams/players than others, for example, look at TD celebrations across the league and celebrations after sacks and see if they are worse than this. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81321465/Chris-Johnson-INT Johnson drops to his knees and puts his hands in the air after the interception - result 15 yd penalty(reduced to half the distance to the goal line).

Karlusss · 10-10-2009 3:52pm

The excessive celebration rule is something that has annoyed me for a long time, because while roughing is ambiguous and there are times when a rusher can't avoid doing it, the excessive celebration thing is the most avoidable penalty in the world.

Now, we all probably agree that it feels stupid to see it called for someone just doing a sack dance or celebrating a touchdown, and that it seems unnecessarily anal.

BUT

Everyone in the league KNOWS they're going to be penalised! And they do it anyway! Just point to your mother in the stand, hand the ball back and go back to the f-ing sideline!

ReacherCreature · 10-10-2009 6:31pm

IMO, this is a pointless thread.

It's a rule, abide by it and all the other rules.

If they're broken, they're broken and you're penalised, if they're not, grand.

Simple me thinks.

davyjose · 10-10-2009 10:01pm

The way I see it is that pass-rushing is a huge part of the game. It's a 4-down/ten yard game. Let's be honest, it sounds easy when you hear it like that. But it isn't, and abig part of that is because the QB has to not only make sure he gets the ball to a receiver, but he has to do it before he gets sacked (to simplify for the sake of example).
But if you make it too difficult for the Defensive players, you take that away. There is a good example on foxsports.com today. Basically making the point that these days every time a sack is made, everybody waits to see if a penalty is called. And that certainly isn't good for the game.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/10192598/Week-5-preview:-Is-this-flag-football?
The tendency to single out Brady is an obvious one, but it's not really his fault. I have a lot of respect for the guy (no asterisks being called for in my camp), but having been through an injury like his, he is entitled to push for a ruling in his favour, IMO. It's up to the referees to call it as is, and I think they made the wrong call on Sunday. But you can't blame that on Brady.

eagle eye · 11-10-2009 3:47am

The Suggs call was a good call. Firstly he did make contact and secondly that contact had malicious intent, Brady saved himself from very possibly a serious injury by moving his leg, but there was still contact.

N'Gata said he did hit Brady on the head so there is nothing to say about that one. Mike Wright got called for the same thing and you don't hear him complaining. You are always going to get called for contact to the head. The both got fined by the way.

davyjose · 18-10-2009 11:37pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Im pretty sure if it happened Manning or Brees they would react the same way. After all it is their careers on the line if they get hit badly in the knee.

It did happen Manning. He had to have a scan after the Titans game last week. But while he didn't complain at the time, he did talk about it afterwards. He wasn't happy.

tallaghtoutlaws · 18-10-2009 11:42pm

davyjose wrote: »

It did happen Manning. He had to have a scan after the Titans game last week. But while he didn't complain at the time, he did talk about it afterwards. He wasn't happy.

See he still complained about it and many of the QBs do. If Brady chooses to do it on the field why not? He knows being high profile it might get a flag shown but it is still against the rules no matter what way we look at it or talk about it. And that is the Fact in the whole thing. Fook it if I was Brady I would have done the same thing. I like my knees to be intact, I know its now a rule and I want to continue to play football.

davyjose · 18-10-2009 11:48pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

See he still complained about it and many of the QBs do. If Brady chooses to do it on the field why not? He knows being high profile it might get a flag shown but it is still against the rules no matter what way we look at it or talk about it. And that is the Fact in the whole thing. Fook it if I was Brady I would have done the same thing. I like my knees to be intact, I know its now a rule and I want to continue to play football.

No, I definitely agree.

I can't help feeling it's getting easier and easier to be an NFL QB though; long before tonight. Look at the amount of 4,000 yarders last season. 6 or 7 of them I think. This year there are 2 or 3 QB's on for 5,000. Then you'd Manning break a 20 year old TD record, and Brady breaks it 3 years later.

Don't get me wrong, i love seeing all this, and I want to see QB's stay intact, but if they're going to keep taking a little bit more off the defenses, they're going to have to start giving something back.

Roughing the Passer

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