Why create the human race?

gramlab

Probably been asked before or if not, covered elsewhere but I can't find it.

God is a being beyond our comprehension. He created a universe so vast and complex that we as humans will probably never be able to fully appreciate it or even understand a fraction of it. He knows its outcome and ours also(if you take it that he is omniscient)

Why create a species like us. We are hardly the pinnacle of what a divine being could come up with, given the work needed to formulate the universe. In general as a race we are fragile, selfish, antagogonistic, self-destructive etc

So basically - from a human perspective, why do you think he did it. Was he bored, lonely, curious, in need of worship, carrying out an experiment of sorts..........

If there is a God, are we the be all and end all of his work?

JimiTime

gramlab wrote: »

Probably been asked before or if not, covered elsewhere but I can't find it.

God is a being beyond our comprehension.

A good premise to begin on. For whatever you or I suppose, we must admit our ignorance as we speculate or use educated guess work.

Why create a species like us.

I don't know what motivated him. Maybe it would be similar to the feeling a person has with regards to wanting children? Though if we reduce it to human terms, then we enter into head melt territory. Before God created anything, was there just nothing? If so, knowledge of what did he have? etc etc. It just becomes incomprehensible, like you say in yur opening premise.

We are hardly the pinnacle of what a divine being could come up with, given the work needed to formulate the universe. In general as a race we are fragile, selfish, antagogonistic, self-destructive etc

Now we are. Jesus wasn't. He showed what a human being is supposed to be like. He exemplified how we would be if we were in the spirit of God as intended. Also, I think you underestimate what a human is. Our capacity to Love is a great, great gift. If our spirits stay with God, then we would be none of the above you mentioned.

So basically - from a human perspective, why do you think he did it. Was he bored, lonely, curious, in need of worship, carrying out an experiment of sorts..........

If there is a God, are we the be all and end all of his work?

All that will answer is why a human, and more specifically the specific person you ask, would do it. The answer as far as I am aware is that I don't know.

Mark Hamill

gramlab wrote: »

We are hardly the pinnacle of what a divine being could come up with, given the work needed to formulate the universe.

Just a simple question, but why do you think there would be a difference in the effort required for god to create two different things? If god is completely omnipotent, then making a planet should require the same effort as making an apple, shouldn't it?

chozometroid

gramlab wrote: »

Probably been asked before or if not, covered elsewhere but I can't find it.

God is a being beyond our comprehension. He created a universe so vast and complex that we as humans will probably never be able to fully appreciate it or even understand a fraction of it. He knows its outcome and ours also(if you take it that he is omniscient)

Why create a species like us. We are hardly the pinnacle of what a divine being could come up with, given the work needed to formulate the universe. In general as a race we are fragile, selfish, antagogonistic, self-destructive etc

So basically - from a human perspective, why do you think he did it. Was he bored, lonely, curious, in need of worship, carrying out an experiment of sorts..........

If there is a God, are we the be all and end all of his work?

If God is all-powerful, creating some "super perfect race" of beings would not be more of a "pinnacle" than the current flawed human race. Since there is all ready no limit to what He could create, there is no level of creation that is more impressive, with "impressive" being a subjective term.

Actually I think that with all of our faults, and our struggle to overcome our fleshly nature, we are a very impressive creation. God created beings that have meaning and a higher standard to aim for, as opposed to something that is just "awesome" by an unknown standard. Perhaps what God created is the best thing He could create. It's all relative anyways. In a different universe with "more magnificent" beings, they could ask the same thing. What do you compare yourself to? What would make something a "greater" creation? Something that is closer to God? Who would be around to say that such a being truly shows how awesome God is?

There is imperfection and "drama" in this life/universe. God could've created an amusement park the size of a galaxy, but what we be the point? Instead, He created a lesser being that shares a bit of His nature, like the capacity for free will, to love, to be creative, and to appreciate beauty.

I don't think God is "in need" of worship either. It's just something that His created beings must do in order to treat Him as the Creator God He is. It's something that follows automatically from the Creator-creation relationship. We cannot put ourselves on His level. It's just nonsense. So, to show that we recognize who He is and how "worthy" He is, we worship Him, and praise His most Holy name. There is no one else worthy of worship. He is most worthy, being the Creator of all things.

gramlab

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Just a simple question, but why do you think there would be a difference in the effort required for god to create two different things? If god is completely omnipotent, then making a planet should require the same effort as making an apple, shouldn't it?

I dont think there would be any difference in the effort required. But if you go to the effort (assuming it was an effort, if only in terms of planning, time etc)of creating an environment for life as complex and elegant as ours is, would you not do the same for the life you put in it?

If I were to go to the trouble to build a state of the art manufacturing facility, I would want it to produce the best products possible.

gramlab

JimiTime wrote: »

Though if we reduce it to human terms, then we enter into head melt territory. Before God created anything, was there just nothing? If so, knowledge of what did he have? etc etc. It just becomes incomprehensible, like you say in yur opening premise.

As you say, not knowing the exact nature of God would lead to endless speculation, so human terms are probably the only real reference terms to use.

JimiTime wrote: »

Also, I think you underestimate what a human is. Our capacity to Love is a great, great gift.

Love is a great gift but the world certainly isn't a giant woodstock festival. If history is anything to go by, we seem far more capable and inclined to destructive traits than constructive ones.

JimiTime wrote: »

All that will answer is why a human, and more specifically the specific person you ask, would do it. The answer as far as I am aware is that I don't know.

This was more or less the crux of this thread - opinions on why God felt the need to create the human race at all. To try and understand him people have studied and attributed human charachteristics to him (because this is all we have). So I suppose my quetion was just an extension of this in asking why he/we would create us.

antiskeptic

gramlab wrote: »

Probably been asked before or if not, covered elsewhere but I can't find it.

God is a being beyond our comprehension. He created a universe so vast and complex that we as humans will probably never be able to fully appreciate it or even understand a fraction of it. He knows its outcome and ours also(if you take it that he is omniscient)

Why create a species like us. We are hardly the pinnacle of what a divine being could come up with, given the work needed to formulate the universe. In general as a race we are fragile, selfish, antagogonistic, self-destructive etc

So basically - from a human perspective, why do you think he did it. Was he bored, lonely, curious, in need of worship, carrying out an experiment of sorts..........

If there is a God, are we the be all and end all of his work?

I'd imagine it'll have been pointed out that we are a fallen creatures so aren't actually as God designed/intended. You could say that that which is beautiful about us (if at all possible to arrive at a consensus as to what attributes of us are beautiful) is the remains of the image and likeness of God in which we were originally created. And that that which is ugly about us (according to a similar consensus) is that which is the produce of our having fallen into a pit of evil so as to be infected with it.

A central aspect of God's plan in creating mankind is demonstrated in the geneology of Jesus given in Luke chapter 3 which terminates thus;

the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

Adam the son of God.

God, in creating mankind was intent on having children - it would appear. And the story unfolds out to demonstrate that the creation of Adam wasn't a finished work but was in a sense, a proto-work. Proto, in that Adam wasn't yet fully a child of God. It was required that he exercise choice in determining whether his position w.r.t. God would be child or otherwise.

And so it appears that God's plan in relation to all mankind is to permit each of us to decide what we would like our eternal position to be: either we conclude that we love what God represents (which will extend on to become a love God himself when we meet him personally) or we conclude that we love that which is anti-God and which God hates. And spend an eternity outside the love of God (but apparently in the company of his wrath)

And so, we can consider ourselves, here and now, to be in a temporary time state between two eternal extremes - with this life of ours, sullied with imperfection though it is - as the ticket on which our eternal destination is being printed. God will, it will transpire, have used this world and this time as a staging area for producing an eternal family of (adopted) children

iddy

From a human perspective I'd have to say for his glory.

Isa 43:7
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Soul Winner

gramlab wrote: »

Why create a species like us. We are hardly the pinnacle of what a divine being could come up with, given the work needed to formulate the universe.

What you are saying is a claim to actually know what the pinnacle of what a divine being could actually come up with, would look like. What would that look like? And how could you as a being who - in your own admission mind - as an inadequate candidate for creation's pinnacle actually know such a thing?

neuro-praxis

God created us because the unity between the Father, Son and Spirit was so damn sweet that He just couldn't keep that all love to Himself. We were made for our own sake!

faceman

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that God created a number of different versions of human beings before settling on us. We differ from angels because of free will and, i suppose, the lack of wings!

PDN

faceman wrote: »

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that God created a number of different versions of human beings before settling on us. We differ from angels because of free will and, i suppose, the lack of wings!

And sex!

mega man

I believe God created humans in his image. Yes we have bad qualities but we also have godly ones.

kelly1

gramlab wrote: »

Why create a species like us. We are hardly the pinnacle of what a divine being could come up with, given the work needed to formulate the universe. In general as a race we are fragile, selfish, antagogonistic, self-destructive etc

Blessings Gramlab. Here's what the catechism has to say on why God created the world: (http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm#III)

III. "THE WORLD WAS CREATED FOR THE GLORY OF GOD"

293 Scripture and Tradition never cease to teach and celebrate this fundamental truth: "The world was made for the glory of God."134 St. Bonaventure explains that God created all things "not to increase his glory, but to show it forth and to communicate it",135 for God has no other reason for creating than his love and goodness: "Creatures came into existence when the key of love opened his hand."136 The First Vatican Council explains:

This one, true God, of his own goodness and "almighty power", not for increasing his own beatitude, nor for attaining his perfection, but in order to manifest this perfection through the benefits which he bestows on creatures, with absolute freedom of counsel "and from the beginning of time, made out of nothing both orders of creatures, the spiritual and the corporeal. . ."137

294 The glory of God consists in the realization of this manifestation and communication of his goodness, for which the world was created. God made us "to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace",138 for "the glory of God is man fully alive; moreover man's life is the vision of God: if God's revelation through creation has already obtained life for all the beings that dwell on earth, how much more will the Word's manifestation of the Father obtain life for those who see God."139 The ultimate purpose of creation is that God "who is the creator of all things may at last become "all in all", thus simultaneously assuring his own glory and our beatitude."140

To me this means the Holy Trinity basically couldn't keep their joy to themselves and wanted to communicate it to other beings. A very unselfish thing to do considering what God had to do to redeem us!

gramlab wrote: »

If there is a God, are we the be all and end all of his work?

I think we and the angels are the pinnacle of God's creation. Yes I know we're selfish and cause all kinds of mayhem etc but I also believe we have the ability to overcome all this by putting our faith in Christ and cooperating with His grace. If the will to grow in love of God and neighbour is there, there is no limit to where God's grace can take us. There is no limit to love. We only have to be willing to obey God's will, no matter where that takes us. So while we are subject to human weakness, God's grace is always available to help us to become more like Christ which is really our only goal in this life. Every good work we do in a state of grace will be rewarded and is viewed by God as though Christ had done the work because of our union with the Body of Christ. Because we are God's children through baptism, we will inherit all that the Father has to give.

When we make it to heaven, we will be crowned victorious with Christ in overcoming the world and it's temptations. We will be victors with Christ who chose the Light over the darkness.

A theologian called Mathias Scheeben wrote that the imparting of divine life/grace in baptism is greater than the the creation of the entire universe because divine life is infinitely superior to material matter. Worth thinking about!

I know my reply is a bit meandering but that's what came to me!

God bless,
Noel.

kelly1

faceman wrote: »

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that God created a number of different versions of human beings before settling on us. We differ from angels because of free will and, i suppose, the lack of wings!

Are you suggesting that God made mistakes? BTW, the angels have free will too. Didn't they rebel against God at the beginning?

Soul Winner

faceman wrote: »

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that God created a number of different versions of human beings before settling on us. We differ from angels because of free will and, i suppose, the lack of wings!

Angels have free will also. If they don't have free will then they wouldn't have been able rebel against God. Only beings with free will can choose to rebel.

Bears and Vodka

Why did God create humans? He was bored I suppose..