Another fractured finger at Kilternan Ski Slope...

magic108

Hi All,
I went yesterday for few snowboard runs before season starts. Got the board from a staff member and went for the slope. It was very busy so I was trying to go slow which is making snowboarding on this kind of surface difficult.
After two runs and few wipe outs I realized that usually it was not that painful! Then I realized that I was always getting the knee pads and elbow protectors with the board, and the staff should know that this equipment should be used by all on the boards.
I am quite upset that I end up with fractured finger and badly bruised knees because of poor staff training and lack of safety.
M

Fattes

magic108The ski club does not provide wrist guards, elbow or knee pads for boarders. They only provide the boots, board and the ass padding for beginners.

Think it is a legal issue with the saftey of pads and how often they would need to be replaced and not knowing how many knocks the pads had taken etc etc.

So if your board was ok and you boots fitted the staff did their job right. I dont think elbow pads or Knee pads would stop you breaking your finger

Like all sports there is a chance you will injure yourself Dendix is known for one particular injury, skiers and boarders get them and it only happens if you put your hands down, natural reaction I know!!!

Snowie

you where riding on dendex what do you expect?????

so if you "wipe out" on a moutain are you going to complain to the pisteys about falling man up or woman up and stop moaning...

olaola

Would it be better to wear mittens?

Fattes

olaolaProbably the easiest way but you will stIll catch your thumb. Best thing is not to put the hands down but easier said than done

LeoD

If only you had worn a helmet...

magic108

Dear Fattes,

Thanks for your reply, but I think you are wrong in all points - let me explain;

Fattes wrote: »

magic108The ski club does not provide wrist guards, elbow or knee pads for boarders. They only provide the boots, board and the ass padding for beginners.

I think this is wrong - knee and elbow pads are already there so it should be offered as a part of the equipment. The ass padding for beginners is nice but this is a part of the body that is the least likely to get seriously injured.

Think it is a legal issue with the saftey of pads and how often they would need to be replaced and not knowing how many knocks the pads had taken etc etc.

To be completely honest I don't believe that at all! So if you could send me some info about the legislation you are talking about I will take a look on it. Knee pads are not a "safety equipment" it is a protective gear and do not carry certification, but the same way when you see that the ski binding is broken it will be replace, it will be even easier to see if knee pad needs to be replaced.

So if your board was ok and you boots fitted the staff did their job right. I dont think elbow pads or Knee pads would stop you breaking your finger

This is a matter of risk assessment, if there is high possibility of injury (and just from post in this forum you can say that the risk is high) the service provider should react on it, and this one is a LEGAL matter.

paulharte

I've been toying with the idea of taping up my old gloves to make a mitten for the freestyle nights. Every little helps!

Funnily enough, I've noticed on Sundays that most of the injuries (snowboard anyway) come from ppl who are out 'practicing' rather than in a lesson.

magic108

Snow Monkey you completely missing a point, I expected that the will be professional service.
I am not "moaning" (thank you very much), that the dendex is the way it is, but if some one will set DIN wrongly and that will cause injury, than yes I will complain, or if I would not get the wetsuit for the surfing lesson... don't be silly.
Of course injuries happen, but this is just example of the lack of concern and care of your clients. (as well as lack of professionalism, in my opinion anyway).

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

you where riding on dendex what do you expect?????

so if you "wipe out" on a moutain are you going to complain to the pisteys about falling man up or woman up and stop moaning...

robinph

Skiing/ boarding are dangerous sports, it's just that a lot of people do them now so seems less "extreme" than they might previously have done. Dendix can be bad for your finger/ thumbs, but although it may seem like a common injury you don't hear about all the people who make it through a session on the stuff without injuring themselves.

Fattes

5 Years of being a plastic spastic at least twice a week and have broken my hand once!

That was when I was a fairly competent skier going through gates.

Sound

magic108 wrote: »

Snow Monkey you completely missing a point, I expected that the will be professional service.
I am not "moaning" (thank you very much), that the dendex is the way it is, but if some one will set DIN wrongly and that will cause injury, than yes I will complain, or if I would not get the wetsuit for the surfing lesson... don't be silly.
Of course injuries happen, but this is just example of the lack of concern and care of your clients. (as well as lack of professionalism, in my opinion anyway).

I think you'll find that you are.

Fattes

Magic 108 let me get this right? Yoy think the club are at fault becase you fell from a snowbard and caught your finger in a dendex mat after signing a waiver saying you understand the risks of what you are about to do.?????

Knee and elbow pads cost money and it is not viable for any business to constantly replace them and if you look at any of the protective padding is actually certified!

The knee and pads are not already there and the website does not say it is provided as part of the service. If a business provides equipment that is not fit for the purpose it is meant they are opening themselves to being liable for damage caused by a fault.

"Of course injuries happen, but this is just example of the lack of concern and care of your clients. (as well as lack of professionalism, in my opinion anyway)."

Lack of care there are signs all over the place telling you to wear gloves, there is a huge disclaimer telling you that it is a risky sport would you like that you where wrapped in bubble wrap before you whent out if you dont want to be injured dont board.

Now dont get me wrong the club is not perfect and could probably do more but you are complainng because you fell over. & People say skiers are up their ass

What night where you there.If it was Wed by any chance because I have some video of you boarding if you where wearing a yellow jacket:P

Snowie

magic108 wrote: »

Snow Monkey you completely missing a point, I expected that the will be professional service.
I am not "moaning" (thank you very much), that the dendex is the way it is, but if some one will set DIN wrongly and that will cause injury, than yes I will complain, or if I would not get the wetsuit for the surfing lesson... don't be silly.
Of course injuries happen, but this is just example of the lack of concern and care of your clients. (as well as lack of professionalism, in my opinion anyway).

I think your missing the point over the 490 days snowboarding I have under my belt! Ive had concousion, busted finger's whip lash... genrally hurt my self more times then i care to remember!

thats something you except from doing the sport... theres a risk involved...

Yet you come on here having the cheek to moan about how you hurt your finger's :rolleyes: please... Safe me the fvcking dribble.
If you wanna look cool bye convertable.. have a hot chick on your side and wear nice suits and play golf or something...

you wanan live, snowboard, ski, tel mark.
but serously its an impact sport... if you moaning of this good help you if you have a hideside cartwheel attack :pac:!

granty1987

paulharte wrote: »

I've been toying with the idea of taping up my old gloves to make a mitten for the freestyle nights. Every little helps!

ah the classic paulharte flippers!

personally never done any serious damage up in kt with 2 years of being up there 2/3 times a week skiing and snowboarding - thought i had broken both my wrists at one stage but was fine

only thing that annoys me is the fact that it absolutely shreds your gloves - theyv got more holes than a golf course

magic108

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

I think your missing the point over the 490 days snowboarding I have under my belt! Ive had concousion, busted finger's whip lash... genrally hurt my self more times then i care to remember!

thats something you except from doing the sport... theres a risk involved...

Yet you come on here having the cheek to moan about how you hurt your finger's :rolleyes: please... Safe me the fvcking dribble.
If you wanna look cool bye convertable.. have a hot chick on your side and wear nice suits and play golf or something...

you wanan live, snowboard, ski, tel mark.
but serously its an impact sport... if you moaning of this good help you if you have a hideside cartwheel attack :pac:!

Guys PLEASE! read the first post! I don't blame anyone that I fell, just want to point that maybe something more can be done.
But if you believe that - "don't want to get hurt - don't board" - than there is nothing to talk about.



and 490 (lol) days do not impress me a bit, had more before i was 10...

MarkR

Of course more could be done. But the club did what they were supposed to. You could have brought your own?

You signed a waiver, so you were aware of the risks. You have some experience on slopes, so really you should have spoken out if you felt that the safety equipment was inadequate..

magic108

MarkR wrote: »

Of course more could be done. But the club did what they were supposed to. You could have brought your own?

You signed a waiver, so you were aware of the risks. You have some experience on slopes, so really you should have spoken out if you felt that the safety equipment was inadequate..

MarkR - exactly! I am speaking out. I do not want to sue anyone, I don't blame anyone.
Dear Ski Club of Ireland - please be so kind and remind all your staff to put the box with knee pads out.
peace

Snowie

magic108 wrote: »

and 490 (lol) days do not impress me a bit, had more before i was 10...

Wow you've got more days then me ona moutain and yet you still fart moan and complain about what dendex can do to you.....

you should know better :rolleyes:

Fattes

magic108 wrote: »

MarkR - exactly! I am speaking out. I do not want to sue anyone, I don't blame anyone.
Dear Ski Club of Ireland - please be so kind and remind all your staff to put the box with knee pads out.
peace

Magic, there is no box with Knee pads available at the ski club, they do not provide them, they do not state on their website that they provide them.
The website states "Rates include the use of skis, boots and poles or snowboard and snowboard boots. "
If you have so much boarding experience why did you turn up without them or why do you need them?

Now please stop moaning about not getting them they are not provided. The club can not garuntee their integrity and it is not cost effective to constantly replace them. There is no box with Knee Pads and wrist guards in the club. Not sure what you where looking at.

The ski club are incredibly saftey concious and for a long time it was detremental to boarders as they where so restrictive on letting boarders out. Thankfully that day has passed and a few of the ski instructors have even learned how to set board bindings and use the boards themselves.

magic108

Fattes wrote: »

Magic, there is no box with Knee pads available at the ski club, they do not provide them, they do not state on their website that they provide them.

Box full of knee pads is stored in the snowboards room, just by the doors on the left hand side. bottom shelf. its blue.

well... looking after your clients is not cost effective???
set of pads (4pcs) - €50, last for +/- 100 h of heavy bitting
yearly cost - €500

no comments

Fattes

Cost of public Liabitlity case if pads are discovered not to have been replaced at the correct time???? Could potentially bankrupt the place.

Look you have got no support on here you have not got an argument as above in Bold letters the club "Rates include the use of skis, boots and poles or snowboard and snowboard boots. "
Just incase you missed it the first time.

You have complained about breaking your finger because you did not get knee or elbow pads?? You have no argument or point

You complain about customer service you are expecting somthing the club do not say they provide Kind of like going to Burger King asking for a big mac and complaining when they dont have it.

magic108

Dear Fatty, I am not looking for support, neither do I complain. Just trying to make you aware that what you think is enough, cost effective or stated in yours wavers is just slacking.:D

robinph

What do you expect to be provided with you when you rent gear at a mountain in the Alps? You just get board and boots, they don't give you anything else there. If you decide that you need pads then you bring your own.

The only additional item that the Ski Club insist on that you don't need on a mountain is gloves, and I believe they have a box of tatty old pairs of those for you to choose from if you arrive without any.

Fattes

Couple of points
1) The ski club is a Club and staffed by volunteers who donate their time and expertise to run the facility.

You are compalining and accusing the people who are looking after you of being poorly trained and lacking in saftey awarness. Even though they provided you with everything they should have. Ensured that you where aware of the risks and provided you with everything they promised as part of you practice session or lesson? So if you are not complainig or moaning how do you explain some of the quite nasty comments below?

"Then I realized that I was always getting the knee pads and elbow protectors with the board, and the staff should know that this equipment should be used by all on the boards.
I am quite upset that I end up with fractured finger and badly bruised knees because of poor staff training and lack of safety."
You accused the staff of showig a lack of concern and care for their clients. I have rarley seen that up there.
Of course injuries happen, but this is just example of the lack of concern and care of your clients. (as well as lack of professionalism, in my opinion anyway).
They are not provided so why should people be reminde to put them out?
Dear Ski Club of Ireland - please be so kind and remind all your staff to put the box with knee pads out.

I have yet to see one person on here support you and funny allot of the guys on here would have plenty to complain about in Kilternan over the years

magic108

Fattes wrote: »

Couple of points
1) The ski club is a Club and staffed by volunteers who donate their time and expertise to run the facility.

You are compalining and accusing the people who are looking after you of being poorly trained and lacking in saftey awarness. Even though they provided you with everything they should have. Ensured that you where aware of the risks and provided you with everything they promised as part of you practice session or lesson? So if you are not complainig or moaning how do you explain some of the quite nasty comments below?

"Then I realized that I was always getting the knee pads and elbow protectors with the board, and the staff should know that this equipment should be used by all on the boards.
I am quite upset that I end up with fractured finger and badly bruised knees because of poor staff training and lack of safety."
You accused the staff of showig a lack of concern and care for their clients. I have rarley seen that up there.
Of course injuries happen, but this is just example of the lack of concern and care of your clients. (as well as lack of professionalism, in my opinion anyway).
They are not provided so why should people be reminde to put them out?
Dear Ski Club of Ireland - please be so kind and remind all your staff to put the box with knee pads out.

I have yet to see one person on here support you and funny allot of the guys on here would have plenty to complain about in Kilternan over the years

Dear Fattes,
How the staff is compensated for the job is between club and them, I really do not understand why are you bringing this subject here. It can be run by group of friends for the friends but from the moment when there is payment involved it a business.
Setting standards in safety or training is always the management responsibility its not up to the staff, and I can not see a single sentence where I actually accuse anyone.
Now me and you know that there is a full box of protectors in Kilternan, (I know it is not a part of the package, its not included in the price and its not listed in the offer - never said that i didn't got the what I paid for). Where I was wrong (and I do apologies if that offend anyone) I assumed that such a basic think, like reminding snowboarders about knee pads will be part of standard procedure. When skiers are getting the skis they are asked for the hight, the weight and experience - then the DIN is set (at least I hope it is) - and this is not listed on the web site, its not a part of the package with set value in overall price - it just something you do! Because it improves the safety. I know there are waver and disclaimers - I heard more of that here then on 6 o'clock news...:(
The same I was assuming that information about the knee pads is something that EVERYONE who is allowed to give out the snowboards would hear on their induction training on the first day at work.
And please don't tell me about the costs and liabilities - that is not the area where any business should be looking for savings...

To sum up and hopefully finish this long dispute - what you got here was just an opinion of not entirely satisfy customer. Who will benefit from proving me wrong? Ski club, other snowboarders? Why you wont take it on board and try to make the Kilternan better? And there is plenty information like my in this very forum - people are trying what they can (putting tape over their mittens as just one example) because they have a need for improvement in their safety, their comfort. I believe that within the ski club are experienced skiers and snowboarders who could easily find some simple solution that wont cost much.

And finally you saying that there is a lot of guys who would have plenty to complain and they do not (I know it is not in Irish nature to complain until is completely unbearable) - but that is why Kilternan is probably the most ancient ski slope in Europe!
So please do complain! Unless you are happy to ride this *&^% brush for the next 20 years.

flikflak

You only did two runs slowly and wiped out "a few times". You say you had over 490 days on a board before you were 10.

Now forgive me but I would expect a boarder of such experience to complete two runs slowly without incident and to know what kind of kit they need before setting out on a run.

I know exactly what kit I need for the conditions before even leaving the house. It should be natural for a boarder of your experience to get the right kit on before hitting the slopes.

Dont blame others for your bumps and bruises - you, as an experienced boarder, should know better.