Some advice on Surround sound

Ricochet69

Hi Guys,

I wanted to educate myself on how surround sounds works, what kind of speakers are good (Watts, ohms, etc), and the whole home entertainment area. Ive tried getting information out of some guys in harvey normans but i get the impression that they dont really know what they are talking about and are only trying to sell me the most expensive one. I work in IT and i used to be an electrician so im not a complete noob, but there are some things i still cant wrap my head around.

A few things like:

• Whats the difference between pro logic I and II, and what is plain doubly digital?
• Can you get through surround sound if your input is 2 channel and your using pro logic to create "virtual surround sound"
• When i try to set up surround sound at home it never seems correct. I mean if im playing the xbox 360 it works fine but if im playing a movie the sound effects seem way louder then the voice, or is that how surround sound works?
• Is 5.1 doubly digital where the voice is transmitted through the center speaker and the other sounds through the remaining 4 speakers?
• I know pioneer are great, but are there any other brands that are good, and where is a good place to buy them?
• What defines a good speaker, I know that in cars 200-300Watts peak is quite good but im not sure for surround sound, and i know that ohms comes into play somehow.

I know im asking a loads of questions and i don’t expect that people will answer them all. But even if you could point me towards some good sites to help me understand. I have tried google but it would be nice if someone explained it to me in plain english.


Thanks guys for any help.

ffocused

Dolby pro logic is a system that creates virtual surround sound ie. it takes a 2 channel source and creates a surround sound field with the speakers you have connected. Pro Logic II is the current standard. pro logic I is very old technology.
DTS have a virtual surround technolgy called NEO:6 which is similar to pro logic II.

Dolby digital is true surround sound ie. a different soundtrack sent to each speaker, (up to 8 channels) 5.1 is the basic, 5 speakers & a sub woofer, up to 7.1. The voice parts are sent through the centre speaker.
DTS again have their own 5.1 up to 7.1 technology which is less compressed then dolby digital and sounds marginally better.
Pioneer are good, but not the only brand worth considering, Denon, Sony, Marantz, Yamaha and Onkyo are a few more respected A/V amp manufacturers.
John McDonald and the guys at Richer Sounds will sort you out with what you need and unlike Harvey Normans, they know their stuff.

www.richersounds.ie

They also have a forum here on boards

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1105

To add to your questions, if you are considering blu ray in the future you will need an amp with either 7.1 analogue inputs or the HD codecs and HDMI inputs on board.

Ricochet69

Thanks for the reply, very helpful. So in your opinion do you think DTS is better? is there any compatibility issues (as i see on my xbox it has support for DD) or are the 2 technologies ways of sending out a digital input into a surround system?

The problem i had at my parents house about the sound effects in the surround speakers were overpowering the voice, is that normal or do you think its an incorrect setup?

Do you mean composite when you say analog?

Is it possible to get an amp that will take a hdmi input and output via composite?

its just that my tv is an old hd tv with only composite and dvi/vga inputs.

ffocused

what are you using at your parents house? If the centre channel is getting drowned out, it is either set up wrong or you just need to tweak the set up by increasing the volume on the centre speaker and/or reducing the volume on the overpowering channels. You should be able to do this in the set up menu of the system.

Dolby digital and/or DTS are on your dvds, whatever receiver you get, it should really have both decoders onboard.

Composite is the lowest picture quality available and should not be used if possible. I was referring to analogue AUDIO which uses the same type of cable as composite video.

Your TV has a dvi input which you can get a DVI to HDMI adapter for. Then output HDMI from the receiver to your tv. DVI is as good as HDMI but does not carry any sound. You will not need the sound as your receiver will take care of it for you.

cnocbui

Ricochet69 wrote: »

• What defines a good speaker, I know that in cars 200-300Watts peak is quite good but im not sure for surround sound, and i know that ohms comes into play somehow.

A good speaker is one that can translate the signal being fed to it into sound with minimal distortion and without 'colouring' the sound with unintended sounds caused by acoustic excitation of the speaker cabinet by the drivers

'Watts' is simply a measure of how much power the speakers can be fed without the voice coils of the drivers melting.It is not a measure of quality, though in the car audio genre, many people think it relates to quality due to 'competitions' where the judging criteria was almost entirely just the 'loudness a system could generate.

Watts do correlate somewhat with how loud speakers can get, but is dependent on the efficiency of the speakers.

I wrote something in a previous post about speaker efficiency here: http://wwww.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60175854&postcount=2

The impedance of a speaker as measured in ohms, has a bearing on how much power you need to drive them. 8 ohms is the most common impedance for domestic speakers whereas 4 ohms is the usual impedance of car audio speakers. It is probably one of the least important factors when considering surround sound speakers and it has no direct correlation with sound quality.

Ricochet69

ffocused wrote: »

what are you using at your parents house?

im using a yamaha ax463, that i bought in harvey normans. i tried the auto setup mic thing that came with it but it just seemed to only pick up the left speaker when the test noises when through each speaker. Im fairly positive it was just a setup thing, but i jst didnt think i would have to turn down the surround speakers that much.

ffocused wrote: »

Composite is the lowest picture quality available and should not be used if possible

i ment to say component....sorry i always get confused. ya my tv has a dvi connection and i even have one of those converters at home....i never even thought of that thanks

Ricochet69

thanks cnocbui, that is some detailed post I might get one of the home cinema packs (even tho i would love to get one of some massive speakers) i think it is going to be way too expensive for me. unless you would recommend a site or store that sells some?

funkyjebus

To fix teh centre speaker, go into manual set up and adjust the speaker volume. On my Yamaha the centre is on +2, FR & FL are on 0, and RR & RL are on -1. That what I have found to be a good all round set up. If at those levels it is still acting up, switch the centre speaker with a side to see if there is a fault with the centre sp.

How is the sound connected to the amp when your watching movies, are you using optical? And if there is a 5.1 signal from the DVD, etc are all your speakers lit up on teh right hand side of the display? or just two?

And if your buying speaker, richersounds is the cheapest and best.

Ricochet69

ya i tried that and it doesnt seem to be working, even if i switch the speakers so it must be a faulty speaker. i am using an optical cable and yes it is picking up the input and show this on the display. im using the xbox for streaming media aswell, but from what i have read it seems that the xbox wont play movies this way with surround sound, f**kn m$ always locking up the best features. lol everyone loves richersound here i will have to check them out

SpudGunr

Hi,
JBL are a top brand and a lot of quality cinemas in Ireland would use JBL surround systems.
Its worth paying the extra few quid for a system that can deliver straight out of the box. It can get very technical so best of luck:)

Ricochet69

cheers guys for all yere posts, it really helps. now i understand things a bit better.

jst wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted

C14N

SpudGunr wrote: »

Hi,
JBL are a top brand and a lot of quality cinemas in Ireland would use JBL surround systems.
Its worth paying the extra few quid for a system that can deliver straight out of the box. It can get very technical so best of luck:)

JBL wouldn't really be considered a top brand imo. Maybe a decent enough mid range brand but you wouldn't have many high end systems with JBL components. For speakers, I would personally recommend the likes of Bowers and Wilkins, Monitor Audio, Dali and a few others I can't remember:o

Also, I would like to give some recommendations for other shops (in the Dublin area, not sure where you live).

Alliance Electric on Georges Street are excellent. They have great prices on stuff and very helpful staff who know their stuff.

Sevenoaks Sound and Vision who I think are in Rathmines (they may have moved) are another very good shop. They sell higher end stuff but the staff are also very helpful and friendly.

Cloney Audio in Blackrock are an excellent shop. This is definitely more serious stuff but still very helpful staff and an excellent demo room. This was my favourite shop tbh but so are the other two mentioned.

The advantage of these over Richersounds is that you can actually walk in and try their stuff out. They will also install and wire your room for you and set up your speakers to get the most out of them and are easy to get to if something goes wrong.

Old thread I know, but I just want to help.

Ricochet69

Hey,

Thanks for your reply, i live in cork:-( but i might be going up to dublin soon so will give these guys a try. Thanks for the reply man

C14N

Ricochet69 wrote: »

Hey,

Thanks for your reply, i live in cork:-( but i might be going up to dublin soon so will give these guys a try. Thanks for the reply man

Sure thing. They all have sites, just give them a Google if you want more information about each.:)

And feel free to ask any other questions that might crop up.