Is this vehicle stolen or not?

Drummerboy08

This is a bit of a strange one, but i'm dealing with it at the minute, and i'm a bit unsure as to what I can do.

Basically, I lease vehicles. This particular case is a bit tricky.

The vehicle was leased to the customer back in 2005. It was a 4 year term, so the vehicle should have been handed back to us early this year. Now, we got in touch with the customer who assured us that it would indeed be handed back, but since then we have heard nothing.

Numerous phone calls have been made, and letters sent by registered post, but nothing.

The vehicle is registered in the customers name, but is legally the property of the Finance company. The onus is on us to either return the vehicle to the finance company, or pay for the vehicle. The customer has cut all contact, which IMO suggests he is refusing to hand back the vehicle.

What happens next?

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum, feel free to move it to the right one.

biko

This is a guess but it's not stolen as he didn't take it from you, he's simply refusing to give it back. As it is in his possession now you can't just go and take it, that'd be theft.

Get in touch with a solicitor that can initiate legal action.

norrie_1001

No it's not theft.
It's definately a civil matter as he breached his lease agreement/contract by not returning the vehicle when specified in the agreement/contract.

trad

Do you have retention of title?

I suspect you have details of the key codes for the vehicle. Have a coded key made for it or even one that will open the doors and get a towing company to repossess it. If the client is playing silly buggers, two can play the same game. If he reports it stolen just point out the lease had expired and you took possession of your property.

Car hire companies regularly report cars as "unreturned" to the Gardai.

Drummerboy08

Right, I spoke to a Garda in the local station here yesterday evening.

Turns out that the vehicle hasnt not been taxed or insured since 2006, had never had a speeding ticket, parking ticket, never been stopped at a checkpoint since then either.

All this didnt really worry me until the Garda mentioned the customer was "well known" to Gardai as a member of the travelling community. He reckoned the car was more than likely either on UK plates, or has been broken for parts.

Now what can I do? Nothing?

Drummerboy08

norrie_1001 wrote: »

No it's not theft.
It's definately a civil matter as he breached his lease agreement/contract by not returning the vehicle when specified in the agreement/contract.

Yep, thats what I've been told by the Garda I was speaking to yesterday.

trad wrote: »

Do you have retention of title?

I suspect you have details of the key codes for the vehicle. Have a coded key made for it or even one that will open the doors and get a towing company to repossess it. If the client is playing silly buggers, two can play the same game. If he reports it stolen just point out the lease had expired and you took possession of your property.

Car hire companies regularly report cars as "unreturned" to the Gardai.

The problem is, we dont know where the car is. If you read my post above, it hasnt shown up on the Gardai's radar for the last 3 and a bit years. A bit unusual given the drivers past history according to the guard I spoke to.

Also, legally the finance company cannot repossess the vehicle as all the payments have been made. Stuck between a rock and a hard place at the minute.

trad

The Larceny Act 1916 is an English Statute and not available on www.irishstatutebook.ie
I would have to refresh my memory on it but part of the definition of larceny is "to permanently deprive the owner" of the property. There may be a case for larceny. There are others better versed in Criminal law on this site, maybe try the legal forum.

Drummerboy08

Thanks, will do.

meathstevie

I'm a long shot away from an expert on these matters but you could be looking at some sort of a dishonesty-fraud offence. If you're involved in leasing you probably have someone to turn to for good legal advice.

If I were you I'd do that because just maybe something more than just a civil matter could have happened by the sounds of it. What was the RV on the car anyway ?

Drummerboy08

meathstevie wrote: »

I'm a long shot away from an expert on these matters but you could be looking at some sort of a dishonesty-fraud offence. If you're involved in leasing you probably have someone to turn to for good legal advice.

If I were you I'd do that because just maybe something more than just a civil matter could have happened by the sounds of it. What was the RV on the car anyway ?

Its gone to the solicitors this morning anyhow. Let them and the repo boys deal with it!

It was around 4 grand, so plus interest on that for the last few months and it comes to a bit more.

eric muray

id ring the vehicle licensing in uk and check the chassis number incase its registered in uk but as a member of the travelling community alot have moved to canada and sweden but normally appear back for christmas in ireland, best of luck trying to find it